Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Major1]

"Beat" by a few years in study, or in life ? I am 62. I received my calling to study the ETProphecies in 1976, while a new recruit in basic training at Ft. Dix, NJ, of all places !.....in a auditorium stuffed-full by our training battalion to watch a magic show. Little did we know the "magic show" morphed into a presentation of the signs of the end of the age. I was moved beyond myself in awe ! I determined that I must come to a better understanding of this subject, to which I have faithfully-executed that determination....to this day.

BOTH!

May I say to you that God has told us to remove ourselves from the presence of any magic.

Deut. 18:10.....
"There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer."

I am glad to hear of your work. Really brother, I have no desire to hurt your feelings, so all I can say is that some of your interpretations are some that I have never heard and some I have heard but in either way, they just do not line up with my understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[Archmike]

I am sorry to say this to you, but I for one can not trust you my friend.

I must once say to you that I do not understand these prophecies, and when I read your opinions I can see that yoou do not either.

I see with regret how many learned men have mistaken their way here. Commentators, and even some of the most modern, have strangely trifled in these solemn things; all trumpets, vials, woes, etc., are perfectly easy to them; yet from their descriptions, none get wise either to common sense or to the things that make for their peace.

What I do know however is that The message of Revelation is about a multinational, multiethnic population. It is global in nature and cannot be restricted to the events of the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem by Rome as preterists contend.
“It is no one Empire or Emperor that is concerned in the prophecies of the second half of the Apocalypse; not merely Rome or Nero or Domitian, but a multitude of races, kingdoms, and crowned heads.”

And I know that the "angle" is an angel. There is no Greek grammar I know of that would change ANGLE to a man alive on the earth.

Well, let me make it easy for you, Major.

An acronym is a perfect way to help those a little confused about what is coming, to understand what is coming upon this wicked generation. But, before I present this to you, understand this : no "escape" is coming to Christians in this generation. This I am certain of. With that said, that acronym is this:

I-END-V'MAR !!

Invasion of Israel
Earthquake destroys the invading armies
Nuclear exchange between USA, England and Russia
Dispensation of the Holy Spirit
The Vote to bring power to AC
The Mark is instituted by AC
AC commits the Abomination of Desolation

The Rapture

This is all anyone needs to know to prepare themselves for the Great Tribulation coming. And this is all anyone needs to know about the ET prophecies, until such time as we are enlightened in the midst of great tribulation.

 

[Archmike]

BOTH!

May I say to you that God has told us to remove ourselves from the presence of any magic.

Deut. 18:10.....
"There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer."

I am glad to hear of your work. Really brother, I have no desire to hurt your feelings, so all I can say is that some of your interpretations are some that I have never heard and some I have heard but in either way, they just do not line up with my understanding of the Scriptures.

Nearly all of my interpretations are beyond normal exegesis. I was guided by the Holy Spirit. Nearly all of my interpretations are REVOLUTIONARY BECAUSE IT COMES FROM THE HS.
As to that magic show....God works in mysterious ways. I regard the man who did that show an angel of God. But, more importantly, allowing a magician to spout ET prophecies at a major military training center, is miraculous in it's own right. Never before or after have I seen anything like it, in THAT venue.....
As to hurting my feelings : I have walked the trenches of life, with the poor. I have been annealed in the fires of life. Rest assured, there is nothing you can say that will hurt my feelings, Major ! ....but, I do take back your promotion !

 

[Archmike]

Mike, I told you I am a Bible person. IF the Bible says SCROLL then it is a SCROLL no matter what we want it to be.

It was first called simply "a scroll" (Greek biblion, 5:1), while this one is a little scroll (using a diminutive form, biblaridion, vv. 1, 9, 10).

Moreover, John mentions it as if seeing it for the first time (v. 2). Yet later (v. 8) he is told to take the scroll (Greek to biblion) from the angel's hand, indicating that the terms "scroll" and "little scroll" are used interchangeably.

The simplest conclusion is that the scroll John will take from the angel's hand in this chapter is none other than the scroll taken by the Lamb in chapter 5 (see Mazzaferri 1989:271-74; Bauckham 1993:80-81). John has witnessed the breaking of its seals (6:1--8:5), so there is no reason why the scroll should not be open. Just as in chapter 5 the Lamb took the scroll in the presence of a "mighty angel" in order to open it, John must now take the open scroll from a mighty angel's hand in order for the plan of God to run its course (vv. 8-11).
Revelation 10 Commentary - The Angel with the Open Scroll - BibleGateway.com

Yes, I know that interpretation, Major. But, let us not squabble over translations....that's what charlatans and writers of prophecy books do.....
The KJV says little book, held OPEN with ONE HAND. Even if it were a scroll, can't justify holding it open with one hand. Modern books, no problemo.

Furthermore, The little book was "sweet on his lips". Where will he preach, using his lips to do so ? He was in prison, WRITING The Revelation. He wasn't using his lips.... Therefore, the little book / scroll he ate was NOT The Revelation, cause he did not PREACH WITH HIS LIPS The Revelation.

Logical deduction is all......

 

[BABerean2]

Nearly all of my interpretations are beyond normal exegesis. I was guided by the Holy Spirit. Nearly all of my interpretations are REVOLUTIONARY BECAUSE IT COMES FROM THE HS.

What makes you think the Holy Spirit which is inside of you is somehow different from the Spirit in the rest of us?

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

.

 

[Archmike]

What makes you think the Holy Spirit which is inside of you is somehow different from the Spirit in the rest of us?

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

.

ok.....my interpretations are revolutionary.

Is that better, Bab's ?

 

[seventysevens]

He held the book O P E N With ONE HAND. Can't do that with scrolls. It's a modern-day book. And when the angel says to him, "you must prophecy again", the angel is basically telling John is going to be one of the two witnesses, which statement ( you must prophecy again ...Rev 10:11 ) is IMMEDIATELY followed by chapter 11.

You make statements that you claim to be true without any scripture support nor any support of any kind , just your assumptions .
Why not ?
The Dead Sea scrolls found - there were over 800 scrolls from the ancient days of bible times and they all were found in clay jars - None to big to hold OPEN in one hand -
take a newspaper and open it and grab it by the top edge and you can hold it open with one hand so it can be read - there are no scrolls that cannot be held in one hand when OPEN - you must have gotten that notion from some Hollywood movie
There are a few that were rather long , but a tall man or any man standing on a platform could hold it high enough for it to be seen
But it doubtful that would be the case Rev10

What scripture support do you have that supports your assumption that John will prophecy other than the Two witnesses being found in chapter 11 ?

With all the speculation through time of who the Two witnesses will be never hear of Apostle John being on of them-

 

[seventysevens]

There are two groups of 144 k. That's correct, 2 !

Post your scripture reference please

144 k "firstfruits" ( who are Christian )

Post your scripture reference describing 144k Christians please

The two separate 144 k ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME.

Please post the scriptures that clearly show what you claim

Furthermore, There are TWO Witnesses:
One witness is Christian ( Revelation John )

No John is not at all likely to a one of the Two Witnesses
what scripture do you have that supports this notion ?

 

[Archmike]

You make statements that you claim to be true without any scripture support nor any support of any kind , just your assumptions .
Why not ?
The Dead Sea scrolls found - there were over 800 scrolls from the ancient days of bible times and they all were found in clay jars - None to big to hold OPEN in one hand -
take a newspaper and open it and grab it by the top edge and you can hold it open with one hand so it can be read - there are no scrolls that cannot be held in one hand when OPEN - you must have gotten that notion from some Hollywood movie
There are a few that were rather long , but a tall man or any man standing on a platform could hold it high enough for it to be seen
But it doubtful that would be the case Rev10

What scripture support do you have that supports your assumption that John will prophecy other than the Two witnesses being found in chapter 11 ?

With all the speculation through time of who the Two witnesses will be never hear of Apostle John being on of them-

Rev 10:11 states plainly the Revelation John will prophesy again.....and John is still with the same angel as the Angel discusses the two witnesses in Chapter 11. And John was given a rod in chapter 11 and told to measure the temple. And then John records the two witnesses prophecy. Seems
Coincidental that the angel had John measure the temple. Why ?
ssssssoooooo.......I reason John is a witness......the Christian Witness. And I'll tell you, I have shown more proof than most who guess who the two witnesses are.

Scrolls need two hands. Good try, though 77's ! Most of the DSS 's are fragments. I wasn't born on another planet, 77..... I did start recording biblical history on a toilet paper roll once, and I could hold it with one hand.....

 

[seventysevens]

Where is this proof?
You have a theory just as many others do
I have seen the scrolls and most are very good size , but with over 800 scrolls there are many that are in fragments that people spent years putting them back together as they were , some are on display for the public to read for themselves Isaiah was nearly entirely intact , it is used to compare to today's bible to make sure the read the same

You still have not answered or given your proof of your 144k Christian firstfruits supposedly in scripture that are not the same 144k Jews in Revelation

Rev 10:11 states plainly the Revelation John will prophesy again.....and John is still with the same angel as the Angel discusses the two witnesses in Chapter 11. And John was given a rod in chapter 11 and told to measure the temple. And then John records the two witnesses prophecy. Seems
Coincidental that the angel had John measure the temple. Why ?
ssssssoooooo.......I reason John is a witness......the Christian Witness. And I'll tell you, I have shown more proof than most who guess who the two witnesses are.

Scrolls need two hands. Good try, though 77's ! Most of the DSS 's are fragments. I wasn't born on another planet, 77..... I did start recording biblical history on a toilet paper roll once, and I could hold it with one hand.....

 

[BABerean2]

ok.....my interpretations are revolutionary.

Is that better, Bab's ?

2Pe_1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

.

 

[Archmike]

Where is this proof?
You have a theory just as many others do
I have seen the scrolls and most are very good size , but with over 800 scrolls there are many that are in fragments that people spent years putting them back together as they were , some are on display for the public to read for themselves Isaiah was nearly entirely intact , it is used to compare to today's bible to make sure the read the same

You still have not answered or given your proof of your 144k Christian firstfruits supposedly in scripture that are not the same 144k Jews in Revelation

Yeah, isn't it something how they so meticulously piece those fragments back together !? God bless em !

The two 144 k groups. One Christian. One Jewish.
They don't lineup with my timeline as being one group. Further, I have uncovered subtle reasons to believe that for every Christian fulfillment in The Revelation, there is an equal Jewish fulfillment also. Considering this then, my proof is a......you ready ? ...... A hunch. I actually have some form of proof, but I'm too lazy to dig it out. So, you see, 77, I'm truthful.....

 

[Archmike]

2Pe_1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
.

Well, if I'm guilty of violating this tenant, I'll be in an extremely large company of like-minded individuals.

In the meantime, please define for me what this means. Cause most of my interpretations are bible-based. The others are derived from logical reasoning. If that's a sin, I'm convicted.....in front of the whole of the heavenly host.

 

[BABerean2]

In the meantime, please define for me what this means. Cause most of my interpretations are bible-based.

They should all be "Bible-based", instead of using our logic.

All false systems of Bible interpretation are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore or explain away to make it work.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology is just one example, of many.

It must ignore the fact that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

.

 

[jgr]

ok.....my interpretations are revolutionary.

So are the cults'.

If your interpretations are not consistent with the benchmarks of truth reflected in the testimony of 2,000 years of NT true Church history, then they need to be reviewed and revised.

Because, as Jude tells us:

Jude 3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the
necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

 

[Archmike]

So are the cults'.

If your interpretations are not consistent with the benchmarks of truth reflected in the testimony of 2,000 years of NT true Church history, then they need to be reviewed and revised.

Because, as Jude tells us:

Jude 3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the
necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Nah, rest assured, these interpretations reflect The Truth.

 

[Archmike]

They should all be "Bible-based", instead of using our logic.

All false systems of Bible interpretation are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore or explain away to make it work.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology is just one example, of many.

It must ignore the fact that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

.

Maybe we have failed to understand what is truely coming upon this earth because we have failed to take our straight jackets off. Maybe A new approach to interpretation of the prophecies is necessary and needed.....someone soon is going to appear with the proper interpretation of the ET Prophecies. The question is : will we recognize it ?

 

[Marilyn C]

Well, if I'm guilty of violating this tenant, I'll be in an extremely large company of like-minded individuals.

In the meantime, please define for me what this means. Cause most of my interpretations are bible-based. The others are derived from logical reasoning. If that's a sin, I'm convicted.....in front of the whole of the heavenly host.

Hi Archmike,

Just to set your mind at rest, that scripture in 2 Peter 1: 20 is referring to scripture itself. It means that no scripture is of its own interpretation, it needs the whole of scripture to dove tail together.

A doctrine cannot stand on one scripture but needs be developed throughout scripture and fit into the whole purpose of God.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

Maybe we have failed to understand what is truely coming upon this earth because we have failed to take our straight jackets off. Maybe A new approach to interpretation of the prophecies is necessary and needed.....someone soon is going to appear with the proper interpretation of the ET Prophecies. The question is : will we recognize it ?

The proper system of interpretation is found plainly written in the Bible.

On the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-27 the risen Savior reveals that the whole Old Testament is about Him.

He is the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15.

He is the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the earth would be blessed in Genesis 12.

He is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53.

He is the one who would fulfill the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

The timeline of His arrival is found in Daniel chapter 9.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1.
This fact is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16.

The Greek word "diatheke" was translated as "testament" in some places and "covenant" in other places in the KJV of the Bible.
It is the same Greek word.
If the KJV translators had consistently translated the word as "covenant", the New Covenant of Christ would be obvious to all readers.

No end-time interpretation system which ignores the New Covenant of Christ can be correct.

We find in John 1:1 that the whole Bible is a book about Him.

In 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 Christ returns in "flaming fire".

The fire also comes in 2 Peter 3:10.

When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

The seventh trumpet is the last trumpet found in the Bible.

The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18.

Revelation 11:15-18 reveals that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions.

Until a person faces the reality of the above, their system of interpretation cannot be correct.

.

 

[seventysevens]

The two 144 k groups.......my proof is a.... A hunch.

So you admit that you actually DON"T have any proof !
You make outlandish claims and say you have proof - but refuse to show us that proof-
and when pressed for that proof - you admit it is nothing more than a hunch !

You should have said that in the beginning that you have a hunch - that would have been truthful