The Scriptural documentation of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church and its timing

[Douggg]

Nero had nothing to do with the Reformation.

No, but Nero slaughtered countless Christians. Which is your argument that the reformers were right in their eschatology that the Pope was the Antichrist.

 

[jgr]

Understanding that the 7 years of Daniel 9 is the same 7 years in Ezekiel 39 is critical, because in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon feast, and Jesus is speaking in verse 21.

None of the early church writers dealt with Ezekiel 39, but the majority of them understood Daniel 9 correctly. They didn't consider Ezekiel 39 to be critical.

 

[jgr]

No, but Nero slaughtered countless Christians. Which is your argument that the reformers were right in their eschatology that the Pope was the Antichrist.

You'll have to requote that argument for me; I don't recall making it.

 

[Douggg]

None of the early church writers dealt with Ezekiel 39, but the majority of them understood Daniel 9 correctly. They didn't consider Ezekiel 39 to be critical.

Ezekiel 39 was sealed from understanding in their day.

 

[jgr]

Ezekiel 39 was sealed from understanding in their day.

How can something sealed be critical if you can't open it?

 

[Douggg]

You'll have to requote that argument for me; I don't recall making it.

They are all wrong, but the armchair futurists are not?You were making the argument that the reformers were right and futurists wrong (the who do not think the Pope is the Antichrist) based on the suffering and killing at the hands of the Pope.

You wrote in one of your posts,,,,,

"How many armchair futurists have burned at the stake?"

In another post, you wrote....

"They had an overwhelmingly better understanding of who antichrist was, because they were living under him, and dying because of him.

That kind of understanding doesn't occur sitting in an armchair."

So your argument in regards to persecution and suffering on the reformers because the Pope/Papacy is the Antichirst is no different than the preterists making the claim that Nero was the Antichrist for the same reason - because of the persecution and suffering Nero afflicted on Christians on a massive scale.

 

[Douggg]

How can something sealed be critical if you can't open it?

Because it was not for their day.

Daniel was told not until the end times.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The disciples were told by Jesus when they questioned him about the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel.....

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
________________________________________________________________

Even the apostles couldn't put everything together start to finish, because the understanding was sealed until the end times - our generation.

Ezekiel 39 is critical because it pinpoints when the 7 years takes place. Immediately following the destruction of Gog's army, the Muslim coalition bent on destroying Israel. Producing the illusion of peace and safety following the destruction of Gog's army.

7 years after the destruction of Gog's army is the Armageddon feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20. Equates to Revelation 19:17-18.

We are really close to Gog/Magog.

 

[jgr]

They are all wrong, but the armchair futurists are not?You were making the argument that the reformers were right and futurists wrong (the who do not think the Pope is the Antichrist) based on the suffering and killing at the hands of the Pope.

You wrote in one of your posts,,,,,

"How many armchair futurists have burned at the stake?"

In another post, you wrote....

"They had an overwhelmingly better understanding of who antichrist was, because they were living under him, and dying because of him.

That kind of understanding doesn't occur sitting in an armchair."

So your argument in regards to persecution and suffering on the reformers because the Pope/Papacy is the Antichirst is no different than the preterists making the claim that Nero was the Antichrist for the same reason - because of the persecution and suffering Nero afflicted on Christians on a massive scale.

In not one of those quotes do I claim that the Reformers were right because they were being killed by the papacy. That was the inevitable result of their declarations that the papacy fulfilled prophecy describing antichrist. Even if the papacy had never killed a single Reformer, their recognition that it fulfilled prophecy would still have been accurate and correct.

 

[Douggg]

In not one of those quotes do I claim that the Reformers were right because they were being killed by the papacy. That was the inevitable result of their declarations that the papacy fulfilled prophecy describing antichrist. Even if the papacy had never killed a single Reformer, their recognition that it fulfilled prophecy would still have been accurate and correct.

No, it would not have been, because Jesus destroys the revealed man of sin at His return in 2Thessalonians2:8.

 

[jgr]

Because it was not for their day.

Daniel was told not until the end times.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The disciples were told by Jesus when they questioned him about the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel.....

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
________________________________________________________________

Even the apostles couldn't put everything together start to finish, because the understanding was sealed until the end times - our generation.

Ezekiel 39 is critical because it pinpoints when the 7 years takes place. Immediately following the destruction of Gog's army, the Muslim coalition bent on destroying Israel. Producing the illusion of peace and safety following the destruction of Gog's army.

7 years after the destruction of Gog's army is the Armageddon feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20. Equates to Revelation 19:17-18.

We are really close to Gog/Magog.

How could you have expected the Reformers to understand Ezekiel 39 if it was sealed from them?

 

[jgr]

No, it would not have been, because Jesus destroys the revealed man of sin at His return in 2Thessalonians2:8.

The papacy has been in existence since the 4th century. According to Paul, it will be in existence until Christ returns.

 

[Douggg]

How could you have expected the Reformers to understand Ezekiel 39 if it was sealed from them?

I was asking you if any of them made the connection. I am not surprised at your answer they did not.

If you get out of the historist mindset and study Ezekiel 39, the two feasts and how the second feast sounds just like the Armageddon feast and it is Jesus speaking in verse 21 and the rest of the chapter - you would see the Pope is not the Antichrist - but some Jew who is going to be anointed the King of Israel
by the false prophet - initiating the false messianic age, whereby the Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety.

 

[jgr]

I was asking you if any of them made the connection. I am not surprised at your answer they did not.

How could they make a connection with something that was sealed from them?

 

[Douggg]

The papacy has been in existence since the 4th century. According to Paul, it will be in existence until Christ returns.

No that is according to historists and people who think the Pope is the Antichrist without understanding what it takes to be the Antichrist.

 

[Douggg]

How could they make a connection with something that was sealed from them?

They didn't make the connection, apparently. Which is one of the reasons, the reformers got it wrong eschatology-wise by thinking the Pope/Papacy was the Antichrist.

 

[jgr]

If you get out of the historist mindset and study Ezekiel 39, the two feasts and how the second feast sounds just like the Armageddon feast and it is Jesus speaking in verse 21 and the rest of the chapter - you would see the Pope is not the Antichrist - but some Jew who is going to be anointed the King of Israel
by the false prophet - initiating the false messianic age, whereby the Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety.

If you get out of the futurist mindset, and recognize and appreciate the historical prophetic faith and sacrifice of the saints, and what they have meant for the Church and our spiritual freedoms today, you would immeasurably more blessed, inspired, and grateful.

Unfortunately, history is nothing but an object of contempt for the futurist, as John Nelson Darby said "I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."

You may recall what George Santayana famously said about those who neglect or reject history.

But futurists will never learn.

 

[jgr]

They didn't make the connection, apparently. Which is one of the reasons, the reformers got it wrong eschatology-wise by thinking the Pope/Papacy was the Antichrist.

How could they make a connection with something that was sealed from them?

 

[Douggg]

appreciate the historical prophetic faith and sacrifice of the saints, and what they have meant for the Church and our spiritual freedoms today, you would immeasurably more blessed, inspired, and grateful.

This is what you are getting mixed up on and are making an unfair argument and accusations. Futurists are grateful for what the reformers did just as much as you are. But the reformers were wrong regarding their eschatology assertion that the Pope was the Antichrist.

 

[jgr]

No that is according to historists and people who think the Pope is the Antichrist without understanding what it takes to be the Antichrist.

It was according to the Reformers who fully understood who antichrist was.

 

[jgr]

This is what you are getting mixed up on and are making an unfair argument and accusations. Futurists are grateful for what the reformers did just as much as you are. But the reformers were wrong regarding their eschatology assertion that the Pope was the Antichrist.

What the Reformers did was the logical result of their accurate prophetic understanding. Without that understanding, the Reformation would not have occurred. So if you're grateful for what the Reformers did, you must unavoidably also be grateful for their prophetic understanding, without which they would not have done what they did.