Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[BABerean2]

You are incorrect.
I said and say again that those who have HEARD and rejected the gospel can not be saved after the Rapture.

What does the following mean to you?

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Based on what you are claiming, none of the above could have heard the Gospel before the tribulation period began.


There is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible.

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[jgr]

All I can say to you that instead of the early church fathers, 2000 years has allowed a lot of people to do a lot of study in a book we call the Word of God.

For example. The early church did not know or teach or expound salvation by FAITH thru GRACE with out any work from the church, Martin Luther did that in 1550. Why do you think that the early fathers did not come up with the same 99 Thesis that Luther did 1500 years before he did?

Note that all of the early church writings cited in http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf
predate the 5th century AD. The descent into the apostasy of Roman papalism did not recognizably begin until after this time. Salvation by grace through faith was still alive and well for the first four centuries of the post-apostolic New Testament church. And while the candle of truth dimmed considerably thereafter until the Reformation, it was never completely extinguished. God preserved His remnant of faithful believers during this trying period.

 

[Postvieww]

1 Thess. 4:15-5-17 is the Rapture the 1st Phase of the 2nd Coming.

There is no scripture that mentions “Phases”. There is no single scripture that mentions more than one coming. It is only by arbitrarily dividing “coming of the Lord” passages into little pre or post piles that one can come up with “phases”.

Then after the Tribluation of 7 years the 2nd Coing will take place.
TWO events separated by 7 years according to the Scriptures.

I would ask you how you got that from scripture but I already know that, I used to believe and teach this stuff.

5:1 has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Sorry, you brought it into the conversation.

Major1 said: ↑

His return to earth at the end of the Tribulation in 1 Thessalonians 5:1.

My dear friend, you trying to place the books in chorological order.

No just context!

He is writing to the church in Thess. encouraging them to realize that the coming of the Lord is not going to happen to them tomorrow (There Time). They had understood that Jesus 2nd Coming was imminent to them then but as we know it has been 2000 years.

Great point,

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

THE coming and our gathering, one event!

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

“Day of Christ” same day and coming as in verse 1, the day they thought they had missed.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That same day as verse 1 “coming of our Lord’” and verse 2 “Day of Christ”.


That day verse 1 “coming of our Lord’” and verse 2 “Day of Christ” verse 3 “that day shall not come” all the same day, EXCEPT there is an apostasy FIRST and the man of sin is revealed FIRST. Since as far as I know we do not know who that man of sin is, he has not been revealed as of yet so what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians still applies to us today! “Let no man deceive you by any means” our gathering and His coming are still not imminent UNTIL the apostasy and man of sin is revealed.

This is the passage that made me start to question what I had been taught all my life and believed for over 30 years as a Christian. My library is full of this stuff.

If you do not learn the dispensations and there distinctions which are made in the Scriptures you will be hopelessly confused. The entire totality of the prophetic Word of God have to be considered.

I totally understand. One cannot produce one single passage that teaches this, it has to be interpreted into existence by dividing different “coming of the Lord” passages into neat little interpretative piles.

A literal reading of the above passage turned my thinking. I was discussing this very topic with a co-worker a few years ago and all of a sudden I realized this passage did not say what I had been taught it said. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

 

[Major1]

There is no scripture that mentions “Phases”. There is no single scripture that mentions more than one coming. It is only by arbitrarily dividing “coming of the Lord” passages into little pre or post piles that one can come up with “phases”.



I would ask you how you got that from scripture but I already know that, I used to believe and teach this stuff.




Sorry, you brought it into the conversation.

Major1 said: ↑

His return to earth at the end of the Tribulation in 1 Thessalonians 5:1.




No just context!




Great point,

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

THE coming and our gathering, one event!

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

“Day of Christ” same day and coming as in verse 1, the day they thought they had missed.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That same day as verse 1 “coming of our Lord’” and verse 2 “Day of Christ”.


That day verse 1 “coming of our Lord’” and verse 2 “Day of Christ” verse 3 “that day shall not come” all the same day, EXCEPT there is an apostasy FIRST and the man of sin is revealed FIRST. Since as far as I know we do not know who that man of sin is, he has not been revealed as of yet so what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians still applies to us today! “Let no man deceive you by any means” our gathering and His coming are still not imminent UNTIL the apostasy and man of sin is revealed.

This is the passage that made me start to question what I had been taught all my life and believed for over 30 years as a Christian. My library is full of this stuff.



I totally understand. One cannot produce one single passage that teaches this, it has to be interpreted into existence by dividing different “coming of the Lord” passages into neat little interpretative piles.

A literal reading of the above passage turned my thinking. I was discussing this very topic with a co-worker a few years ago and all of a sudden I realized this passage did not say what I had been taught it said. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

1).
Correct. The word "I" used was of course my own way of explaining the process of the 1st Resurrection and the word "Phases" meat that need.

2).
If you already know and have rejected the explanation then there is no need to respond to your comment.

3).
My bad.

4).
Agreed! It must be remembered that the whole subject of the return of Christ is presented in the Bible in a dialectical tension. On one hand, the imminent return of the Lord is balanced with several events which must happen first. One of these truths does not eliminate or contradict the other.

I do understand your conundrum and the fact that you changed your understanding and the fact is that NOTHING I say to you will change that as you are now rooted in that theology.

2 Thess. 2:1-2 says........
"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come."

A.
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him: Paul here addressed questions raised by his first letter, where he instructed the Thessalonians about the catching away of the church to be with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).

So then the challenge in understanding this chapter comes from the fact that it is a supplement to what Paul has already taught the Thessalonians in words, and we don’t know exactly what Paul said to the them. Yet the ideas are clear enough if carefully pieced together.

B.
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him: Paul clearly wrote of the return of Jesus, but the wording here implies a difference between the coming and our gathering. This strongly suggests that there are essentially two comings of Jesus. One coming is for His church (as described clearly in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) which is the Rapture, and the other coming is with His church, to judge a rebellious world which is Armageddon.

C.
“They are two parts of one great event.” (Morris)

D.
Hiebert shows how the grammar of the ancient Greek in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 shows this: “The government of the two nouns under one article makes it clear that one event, viewed under two complimentary aspects, is thought of.”

E.
This is completely consistent with other passages of Scripture that indicate that there must be two aspects of Jesus’ second coming, and the aspects must be separated by some appreciable period of time.

· Different world conditions are described (Matthew 24:37-42, Matthew 24:21, Revelation 6:15-16).

· Different manners of Jesus’ return are described (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 19:11, 14-15, 21).

· Different scenarios regarding the predictability of the date of Jesus’ return are established (Matthew 24:36, Daniel 12:11).

There is a wonderful web site that if YOU wanted to gain any more understanding I would highly recommend to you and all others and it is.......
Enduring Word Bible Commentary 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2

 

[BABerean2]

This is completely consistent with other passages of Scripture that indicate that there must be two aspects of Jesus’ second coming, and the aspects must be separated by some appreciable period of time.

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that the event at the end of chapter 4 is revealed at the beginning of chapter 5 on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".
Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, it is a Second Coming event.

Christ "descends" in chapter 4.
There is no trip back to heaven in the passage.

The pretrib doctrine is a man-made invention brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War.

In the video below an American woman reads a letter written by Corrie Ten Boom, which reveals how the pretrib doctrine has been detrimental to our faith in nations under persecution.

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.

 

[Major1]

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that the event at the end of chapter 4 is revealed at the beginning of chapter 5 on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".
Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, it is a Second Coming event.

Christ "descends" in chapter 4.
There is no trip back to heaven in the passage.

The pretrib doctrine is a man-made invention brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War.

In the video below an American woman reads a letter written by Corrie Ten Boom, which reveals how the pretrib doctrine has been detrimental to our faith in nations under persecution.

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.

5:10 says.........
"who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. "

Who died for us -
His death was an atoning sacrifice for the Gentiles as well as for the Jews.

Whether we wake or sleep -
Whether we live or die, whether we are in this state or in the other world, we shall live together with him-shall enjoy his life, and the consolations of his Spirit, while here; and shall be glorified together with him in the eternal world. The words show that every where and in all circumstances genuine believers, who walk after God, have life and communion with him, and are continually happy, and constantly safe.

The apostle, however, seems to be referring to the doctrine he has delivered, 1 Thessalonians 4:15, concerning the dead in Christ rising first; and the last generation of men not dying, but undergoing such a change as shall render them immortal. On that great day, all the followers of God, both those who had long slept in the dust of the earth, and all those who shall be found living, shall be acknowledged by Christ as his own, and live together for ever with him.
1 Thessalonians 5:10 - who died... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

 

[Major1]

Note that all of the early church writings cited in http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf
predate the 5th century AD. The descent into the apostasy of Roman papalism did not recognizably begin until after this time. Salvation by grace through faith was still alive and well for the first four centuries of the post-apostolic New Testament church. And while the candle of truth dimmed considerably thereafter until the Reformation, it was never completely extinguished. God preserved His remnant of faithful believers during this trying period.

But that is NOT the point brother. The point is and was that the INFORMATION needed was in the canon of Scriptures. It was NOT HIDDEN. It was not a mystery. The doctrine of salvation by faith through grace was in the same canon of Scriptures as was the Rapture.

It was PAUL who penned both and then different men at different times expanded those doctrines as the time was right to do so.

 

[Major1]

What does the following mean to you?

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Based on what you are claiming, none of the above could have heard the Gospel before the tribulation period began.


There is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible.

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

Rev. 12:11 means exactly what it says. Everyone who is saved is saved by the blood shed by the Lord Jesus Christ. However........in the Tribulation Peroid the gospel changes for those in that dispensation.

"THEY" in Rev. 12:11 must come into contact with one of the 144,000 saved, Jewish, virgin men.

"THEY" MUST believe and accept Christ and many who HAVE NEVER HEARD THE GOSPLE will do so.

Then THEY must also KEEP THE COMANMENTS OF GOD.

Rev. 14:12........
"This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."

Now, did God say that?
Can God lie?

Deut. 4:27..........
"When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them).

Daniel 9:27..........
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: (7 YEARS) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel’s 70th week is not mentioned until after the events of verse 26. These verses and events are clearly in chronological order. The events of verse 26 are "after" the events of verse 25. The events of verse 27 follow the events of verse 26. The time period that dispensational pre-millennialists believe to be between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel is not only justified by rules of Biblical interpretation, but it is required by those rules!

Matthew 24:21............
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall
be shortened."

Jere. 30:4-7..............
"These are the words the LORD spoke concerning Israel and Judah: "This is what the LORD says: "'Cries of fear are heard- terror, not peace. Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it."

From these references we see that "The Great Tribulation" is something that has to do with the Jewish people, and is a judgment through which they must pass as a "refining process" to fit them to again be God's chosen people. Indirectly the Gentiles will be affected by it, but the Church will be "caught out" before that "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord."

The Prophet Daniel in his Vision of the "Seventy Weeks" (Dan. 9:20-22) was told that it would be 69 weeks from the going forth of the Edict "to restore and rebuild Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince." Those were "Prophetic Weeks, " in which each week stood for "seven years, " and they were literally fulfilled, for it was exactly 483 years of 360 days, from the going forth of that Edict, B.C. 445, until Jesus rode in triumph into Jerusalem, A. D. 30, and was hailed as the promised Son of David.

Within a week the Jews had Jesus crucified and then "God's Clock" stopped, and the remaining "one" week, the "Seventieth, " has still to be fulfilled. In the meantime, in the break between the "sixty-ninth" and "seventieth" week, the Holy Spirit is gathering out the Church, and when it is complete it will be taken away, and then "God's Clock" will begin to tick again, because He will again be dealing with. His People the Jews.

It is during this last, or "Seventieth Week" of Daniel's "Seventy Weeks, " that the Tribulation is to occur, and as the "weeks" of the already fulfilled "sixty-nine" weeks, were each "seven years" in length, so this last, or "Seventieth Week, " must be the same. The length then of the "Tribulation Period" should be "seven years, " but Jesus tells us in Matt. 24:22, that for the "ELECT'S SAKE" Those Days Shall Be Shortened. Not the "Elect" of the Church, for they are "caught out" before the Tribulation, but the "Elect" of Israel, the 144, 000 "Sealed Ones.
The 7 Year Period Of The Great Tribulation

There it is. Believe it or reject it. It is YOUR choice.

 

[BABerean2]

Rev. 12:11 means exactly what it says. Everyone who is saved is saved by the blood shed by the Lord Jesus Christ. However........in the Tribulation Peroid the gospel changes for those in that dispensation.

"THEY" in Rev. 12:11 must come into contact with one of the 144,000 saved, Jewish, virgin men.

"THEY" MUST believe and accept Christ and many who HAVE NEVER HEARD THE GOSPLE will do so.

Then THEY must also KEEP THE COMANMENTS OF GOD.

Rev. 14:12........
"This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."

There are two separate sets of commandments in the words of Jesus found below.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


If you think anyone is going to keep the 10 commandments during the tribulation period, you have just condemned all of those people to hell.
Christ is the only person to ever keep the Sinai Covenant (Exodus 34:28) perfectly. Based on Hebrews chapter 11, people have always been saved by faith. King David was an adulterer and conspired to have Uriah killed.


The commandments of Christ are found below.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


You are ignoring the fact that the Sinai Covenant is found "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and the New Covenant of Christ is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

You have just revealed one of your doctrines greatest errors.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.

 

[jgr]

But that is NOT the point brother. The point is and was that the INFORMATION needed was in the canon of Scriptures. It was NOT HIDDEN. It was not a mystery. The doctrine of salvation by faith through grace was in the same canon of Scriptures as was the Rapture.

It was PAUL who penned both and then different men at different times expanded those doctrines as the time was right to do so.

Not sure I follow your reasoning, bro. Yes, all of the information about all doctrines was and is in Scripture. The logically ensuing question then is, why did the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith continue to be held by the early church (and thereafter by the true non-apostate church), but the doctrine of a pretrib rapture did not? If both doctrines are true, why did the first continue to be proclaimed, but the second suddenly disappear off the early church's doctrinal map as if it never existed (or more accurately, never did appear on the early church's doctrinal map to begin with)?

The logical explanation is that it never did exist, and the doctrinal annals of the true church bear witness to this fact for 18 centuries. The doctrine is conspicuously absent for this period (some say Irenaeus espoused it, but other dispensational authorities, e.g. Thomas Ice, say that he did not).

Any claims by anyone of new doctrines or new truths must be viewed with extreme suspicion, given that such claims are the trademark characteristic of cults, and are counter to the declaration by Jude:

Jude 3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

 

[Major1]

Not sure I follow your reasoning, bro. Yes, all of the information about all doctrines was and is in Scripture. The logically ensuing question then is, why did the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith continue to be held by the early church (and thereafter by the true non-apostate church), but the doctrine of a pretrib rapture did not? If both doctrines are true, why did the first continue to be proclaimed, but the second suddenly disappear off the early church's doctrinal map as if it never existed (or more accurately, never did appear on the early church's doctrinal map to begin with)?

The logical explanation is that it never did exist, and the doctrinal annals of the true church bear witness to this fact for 18 centuries. The doctrine is conspicuously absent for this period (some say Irenaeus espoused it, but other dispensational authorities, e.g. Thomas Ice, say that he did not).

Any claims by anyone of new doctrines or new truths must be viewed with extreme suspicion, given that such claims are the trademark characteristic of cults, and are counter to the declaration by Jude:

Jude 3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Many post-tribulationist writers have attacked the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine by claiming that it cannot be true because no church writer or reformer ever taught this doctrine until approximately 170 years ago. While the real question for sincere students of Scripture must be whether or not the Bible truly teaches this doctrine, the argument that no one ever saw this "truth" throughout eighteen hundred years of Church history has been very effective, causing many Christians to abandon their belief in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The only problem with their argument is that they are totally wrong.

On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373..................

"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins" .

There is an abundance of Pretribulation information available at.......
Early Church Teaching On Pre-Tribulation Rapture

 

[Major1]

There are two separate sets of commandments in the words of Jesus found below.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


If you think anyone is going to keep the 10 commandments during the tribulation period, you have just condemned all of those people to hell.
Christ is the only person to ever keep the Sinai Covenant (Exodus 34:28) perfectly. Based on Hebrews chapter 11, people have always been saved by faith. King David was an adulterer and conspired to have Uriah killed.


The commandments of Christ are found below.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


You are ignoring the fact that the Sinai Covenant is found "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and the New Covenant of Christ is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

You have just revealed one of your doctrines greatest errors.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
"here are they that keep the commandments of God"..........
and not the inventions of men, and the traditions of antichrist, but the ordinances of the Gospel, as they were at first delivered, without any adulteration and corruption; and who kept them because they were enjoined by God, and from a principle of love to him, and with a view to his glory: these are distinguished from the worshippers of the beast, and were preserved throughout the apostasy.


Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible
"Here is the patience of the saints" .......
If such be the fate of the followers of the beast, Christ's people must, at all costs, continue to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

"Keep the commandments of God" ... ....
The current fantasy that "believers" are in some way saved without obedience should be reviewed in light of many such passages as this. Any "system" of salvation that promises people eternal life upon any other premise than that of fidelity to God's commandments is false and should be identified with the second beast. Yes indeed; they must believe in Christ with all their hearts, but that is not all that is required.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible
"Here are they that keep the commandments of God .....
That is, in exercising such patience. Those who exercise that “patience” in these long-continued persecutions and trials, will show that they belong to those who keep the commandments of God, and are his true children.

Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable
Obedience to God"s commandments and continuing trust in Jesus will see the faithful through these days of tribulation successfully.


Matthew Poole's English Annotations on the Holy Bible
"Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus; and here will be the trial of men, whether they will keep to the faith of Christ, and obedience of God’s commandments, by coming out of, or keeping in, this spiritual Babylon: those that come out of her will show both; those that keep in that idolatrous communion will show neither.

 

[BABerean2]

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
"here are they that keep the commandments of God"..........
and not the inventions of men, and the traditions of antichrist, but the ordinances of the Gospel, as they were at first delivered, without any adulteration and corruption; and who kept them because they were enjoined by God, and from a principle of love to him, and with a view to his glory: these are distinguished from the worshippers of the beast, and were preserved throughout the apostasy.


Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible
"Here is the patience of the saints" .......
If such be the fate of the followers of the beast, Christ's people must, at all costs, continue to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

"Keep the commandments of God" ... ....
The current fantasy that "believers" are in some way saved without obedience should be reviewed in light of many such passages as this. Any "system" of salvation that promises people eternal life upon any other premise than that of fidelity to God's commandments is false and should be identified with the second beast. Yes indeed; they must believe in Christ with all their hearts, but that is not all that is required.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible
"Here are they that keep the commandments of God .....
That is, in exercising such patience. Those who exercise that “patience” in these long-continued persecutions and trials, will show that they belong to those who keep the commandments of God, and are his true children.

Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable
Obedience to God"s commandments and continuing trust in Jesus will see the faithful through these days of tribulation successfully.


Matthew Poole's English Annotations on the Holy Bible
"Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus; and here will be the trial of men, whether they will keep to the faith of Christ, and obedience of God’s commandments, by coming out of, or keeping in, this spiritual Babylon: those that come out of her will show both; those that keep in that idolatrous communion will show neither.

Which commandments of God?

Do not eat of the tree?

Build a boat?

Circumcise your male offspring?

Keep the 7th day Sabbath, or be stoned to death?

Let the land lay fallow every 7 years?

Do not eat pig meat?

Love thy neighbor as thyself?

.

 

[Major1]

Which commandments of God?

Do not eat of the tree?

Build a boat?

Circumcise your male offspring?

Keep the 7th day Sabbath, or be stoned to death?

Let the land lay fallow every 7 years?

Do not eat pig meat?

Love thy neighbor as thyself?

.

You will have to ask Dr. Gill when you see him.

In Revelation 14, we see that the wicked are those who worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark. Obviously they are not those who are keeping the commandments of God because they say to worship God only. Only those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus will be saved.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12.

Lastly, in Revelation 22, only those who do his commandments will have the right to the tree of life.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14
2.4 God's People will keep God's Commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus: Commentary

 

[jgr]

On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373..................

"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins" .

The above is a quote from the Latin version, which appeared after the original Syriac version.

The original Syriac version read:

"Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: 'Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!"

The escape was via death, not rapture.

There is considerable controversy regarding the authorship and dating of this document, of which there were multiple variants. Wikipedia has a good summary.

Grant Jeffrey was a recognized pretrib revisionist. There is no mention of the Syriac version in his article.

 

[BABerean2]

You will have to ask Dr. Gill when you see him.

Dr. Gill is not the author of the Book of Revelation...

.

 

[Theo Book]

You're missing the point. My question was where in "Revelation" is the rapture mentioned, not about the origin of the word in the scriptures.

YOU are the one missing the point. Your question tells me you do not know the origin of the term, nor its history, nor its application.

I supplied those items, by which you should perceive the answer to your question.

Instead, you choose to quibble over your question.

By comprehending the information I provided, you should understand "rapture" is not found in any English translation that sticks to the Greek for its source, because it is not a Greek-sourced term.

You're welcome!

 

[Major1]

Dr. Gill is not the author of the Book of Revelation...

.

And THAT is the only answer you could think up?

YOU asked for validation, GOT it, then question the ability of one of the world's greatest Christian theologian.

Real classy brother.

 

[Major1]

The above is a quote from the Latin version, which appeared after the original Syriac version.

The original Syriac version read:

"Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: 'Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!"

The escape was via death, not rapture.

There is considerable controversy regarding the authorship and dating of this document, of which there were multiple variants. Wikipedia has a good summary.

Grant Jeffrey was a recognized pretrib revisionist. There is no mention of the Syriac version in his article.

Source?

 

[Ron Gurley]

The "SECOND COMING" PROMISED by Jesus:

John 14 (NASB)....Jesus' precious promise
2...for I go to prepare a place for you.
3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME AGAIN and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Luke 17..The First Coming
20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming,
He answered them and said,
“The "Kingdom of God" (Jesus) is not coming with signs to be observed;
21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’
For behold, the "Kingdom of God" is (standing) in your midst.” (among His inquisitors!)

Jesus' "Second Coming" Foretold

22 And He said to the disciples,
“The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
23 They will say to you, ‘Look there! Look here!’ Do not go away, and do not run after them.
24 For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Matthew 24
27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the "(Second) coming" of the Son of Man be.
28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

The Glorious Return of Jesus the God-Man

29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days (7 years)
the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars (meteors?) will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, >>>and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.<<< 1 Thess. 4 !
31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect (all true believers) from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

The TRUMPETS!?!?
The "Second Coming" is a concurrent step with the "Rapture"!

Hmmm...:"Second Coming"?..."Rapture"?....FUTURE "trumpets"??

Matthew 24:31
And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet
and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 ...the snatching (rapturo)
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Corinthians 15...
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery;
we will not all sleep,
but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet;
for the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we will be changed.

Revelation 11:15 [ The Seventh Trumpet — Christ’s Reign Foreseen ]
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom of the world has become (AGAIN!)
the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ;
and He will reign forever and ever.”

Revelation 19: ....The "Second Coming" of Christ
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and
His name is called "The Word of God".
14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. (saved believers)
15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword,
so that with it He may strike down the nations,
and He will rule them with a rod of iron;
and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Revelation 20: ...the Millenium Reign of Jesus on HIs Throne in Jerusalem
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death ('lake of fire") has no power,
but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.