Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Kaon]

There is no way that I or anyone else could ever sway your opinion. YOU see what YOU want to see because of a preconceived theology that you have learned.

I will however say to you that the Biblical fact is that the pre-tribulation Rapture
is the only teaching which can be validated and supported by the literal understanding of the Bible. I would also say to you the argument over the timing of the event is not based in logic or Scripture but instead on "emotionalism".

However, when we read and study the context of all the Scriptures in reference to the Ark that God told Noah to make, it is clear that it is a powerful picture of the saving grace and protection of the Lord Jesus.

Hebrews 1:1 says......
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets."

The Ark is a type of Jesus Christ as all who chose who enter the Ark would be saved just as all who enter Christ will be saved. Its final fulfillment is the Rapture of the Bride of Jesus Christ just before the Tribulation.

John 5:39..........
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

2 Corinthians 3:14-16..........
"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord,the vail shall be taken away."

Then just to seal the deal so to speak, before Jesus spoke of the conditions of the world in Noah's day and how they parallel His day and he says in Matthew 24:36........
"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no,not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

YES, Enoch was TAKEN. YES Elijah was TAKEN and both are a picture/type of Rapture.
Many Bible scholars believe that they will be the TWO witnesses in Rev. 11:3-12 and they were removed in preparation of that role. There is no direct evidence of that being the case though I for one believe it is possible as the Bible says in Hebrews that "we all have an appointment with death".

Now do we DESERVE to be removed before all hell breaks loose on the earth?
...NO! .....Did you deserve to be saved?

Why do some then deny the Rapture? The reality is that the Grace of God is beyond the ability of our guilt-laden minds to comprehend, and for many, it’s too much to even hope for. When our dreams exceed the limits of our imaginations, we’re more likely to fear the consequences of failure than to anticipate the rewards of success. A post-trib rapture, or even none at all, becomes the safer alternative.
The Holy Spirit And The Rapture – Grace thru faith

The only thing blinding the Church is the strong delusions that say:

1. One can disregard and telegraph God's commandments onto another group of people and reap the same rewards

2. God will whisk up sinners that He qualifies as "good enough", leaving everyone else in terror - when He has never done it before in the history of the Hebrews.


If you believe the rapture is actually biblical, and not a 19th century idea ripped from someone's terrified psyche, then I hope you are ALSO ready for the possibility that it is not happening. If you arent, that is how your faith will be exploited.

This is way bigger than who is right, and how one feels.

 

[precepts]

I quoted directly from the bible and you have a problem with it? I didn't add any words to the verses I quoted.

Jesus said come forth, Lazarus. Therefore, is it not reasonable to think the person saying come up hither for John, representing the living, and the two witnesses representing the dead in Christ, is Jesus's voice?

btw, you need to go back and review what John was referring to regarding the spirit of antichrist. The spirit of antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ.

I don't have to force a horse to drink. You know you're embellishing what is being said because it's a private interpretation. Two thousand years of interpretations and you alone glean John and Lazarus in a rapture.

And if they were of us, they would have remained with us is not talking about residing together.

 

[DavidPT]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

A falling away has definitely begun.

I tend to see one in Revelation 19 for one, by comparing to 1 Thessalonians 4.


Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

I tend to think heaven in this context is meaning the meeting together in the air per 1 Thessalonians 4.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The text indicates the dead rise first, meaning after the Lord has already started descending from heaven. Obviously once Jesus has vacated heaven, that puts Him in the air that the above passage is speaking of. So Jesus would be in the air at this point, He shouts as He is descending. The dead rise first, thus meet Him in the air. Those alive and remaining rise next, meaning they rise(rapture) to also meet Him in the air. Thus the armies seen in heaven(in the air where they all initially meet) following him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[Kaon]

Harpazo is the original Greek word in scripture which was translated into Latin as raperium , rapiemur . rapio and then translated into English as rapture , they all mean the same thing referring to the sudden unexpected snatching away, catching away ,caught away suddenly by force and taken to another location

Strong’s Concordance
harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad’-zo)
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.
HELPS Word-studies
726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly).

You believe as you desire as you have a freewill to do so , but you lack wisdom in understanding what scripture teaches .
Scripture does not teach how to grow wheat , barley or grapes but it uses these as analogies to teach Gods harvests of saints because that is how the people could understand the teaching as nothing like that had ever been spoken - so the Lord chose to use a harvest practice the people were already aware of of understood of how it works

There are those who feel a degree of machismo that all must go through the GT , but God gives his detail in the Jewish harvests , but if you follow the folly of those like keras you will get your wish to go through the GT as the Lord is only protecting those who believe His word and when you don't well that is on you. Numerous times God said stand still and watch Him do the work , even when the saints come from heaven with the angels and Jesus at Jesus 2nd coming it is only Jesus who puts an end the the calamity that is happening on earth as the saints and angels are watching Jesus handle it by himself
There are 3 harvests , 1 prior to the GT , 1 after it begins and 1 after it happens as it is a gathering of all collectively to one place on earth .
But you can believe whatever you desire

these links may not be the best but will provide enough info to study more deeply - IF you actually want to learn - but as been shown by those mentioned they have a hardened heart with much pride and arrogance that they refuse to learn as their pride and arrogance does not allow it
THE HARVEST CYCLE AND THE HOLIDAYS OF PESACH, SHAVUOTH AND SUCCOTH
The 3-Fold Harvest

There is no place in Hebrew history where God has swept up a mass amount of people to keep them OUT of danger while the world goes down too.

Adam had to see his exile from Eden, and the literal fall from perfection of earth. He was not raptured; he was seen through the thing by GOD.

Noah was not raptured; he and his family were protected and led by God when the literal world ended.

Moses and the Hebrews were not raptured, they were led and protected as they walked and laboured into the Promised Land. They were not raptured and taken away.

ENOCH and ELIJAH was not facing a worldwide tribulation; he was just holy. They are FORESHADOWS to the Christ.

If you rely on being saved from calamity when Someone has already saved your soul, you miss the point of spiritual warfare, and it will be exploited against you. As said, this is far bigger than an ecumenical doctrine issue. This is a dangerous doctrine that is going to set people up to LOSE faith, as if God does NOT protect His own when they go through calamity.

 

[Douggg]

I don't have to force a horse to drink. You know you're embellishing what is being said because it's a private interpretation. Two thousand years of interpretations and you alone glean John and Lazarus in a rapture.

The event of 1Thessalonians4:13-18 is both a resurrection and a rapture. Jesus was the authority who raised Lazarus from the dead - so why don't you think the voice saying come up hither to dead in Christ and them who are alive at the time, is Jesus's ?

 

[BABerean2]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 ......
“Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.”

Why don't you provide the rest of the passage, in context?

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 show that chapter 4 is connected to chapter 5.

The timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5.

The word "But" in 1 Thessalonians 5:1 also connects the two chapters.

The event occurs on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".

The same language is used in 2 Peter 3:10, and Revelation 16:15-16, which are Second Coming passages.

.

 

[Major1]

Revelation 5:9 is a declaration of what Christ accomplished, it is not showing of a group of raptured saints in heaven!

The first mention of “souls in heaven” is in Revelation 6:9 and they are not raptured saints!


ASV Revelation 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,

10 and madest THEMto be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and THEY reign upon the earth.

That is of course YOUR personal opinion. I disagree with your opinion.

IMO the 24 elders in Rev. 4:4 are the representatives of the Raptured church as priests before God. David actually divided the Levitical Priesthood into 24 sections in 1 Chron. 24:7-19. Believers are seen here in chapter 4 & 5 as Kingdom priests (Rev. 1:6).

12 Tribes of Jews + 12 Apostles = 1 Church in heaven before the throne.

Please consider Rev. 4:4 and notice that this group has CROWNS, WHITE RAIMENT.

If that is not the rewards given a the Judgment Seat of Christ then what are they my friend?

WHITE RAIMENT shows their righteousness which had to have been judged and then purified. If not then what is your thinking????

Now in 5:9, doesn't the phrase ....."Out Of every tribe ... tongue ... people ... nation ... speak to the universal characteristic of the church is stressed by this. It is the church of our Lord Jesus Christ that actually concerns every man ever born on earth.

 

[Major1]

Revelation 5:9 is a declaration of what Christ accomplished, it is not showing of a group of raptured saints in heaven!

The first mention of “souls in heaven” is in Revelation 6:9 and they are not raptured saints!


ASV Revelation 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,

10 and madest THEMto be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and THEY reign upon the earth.

Correct. Rev. 6:9 is a reference to the martyrs of the Tribulation.

 

[precepts]

I tend to see one in Revelation 19 for one, by comparing to 1 Thessalonians 2:4.


Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

I tend to think heaven in this context is meaning the meeting together in the air per 2 Thessalonians 4.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The text indicates the dead rise first, meaning after the Lord has already started descending from heaven. Obviously once Jesus has vacated heaven, that puts Him in the air that the above passage is speaking of. So Jesus would be in the air at this point, He shouts as He is descending. The dead rise first, thus meet Him in the air. Those alive and remaining rise next, meaning they rise(rapture) to also meet Him in the air. Thus the armies seen in heaven(in the air where they all initially meet) following him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

May I refer you to post #1319? The answer you seek is there.

 

[Major1]

Why don't you provide the rest of the passage, in context?

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 show that chapter 4 is connected to chapter 5.

The timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5.

The word "But" in 1 Thessalonians 5:1 also connects the two chapters.

The event occurs on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".

The same language is used in 2 Peter 3:10, and Revelation 16:15-16, which are Second Coming passages.

.

WHY NOT?

I did not think that it was needed but I will gladly do so my friend.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ..........
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the LORD shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the LORD himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with the LORD. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words".

1 Thess. 5:9 actually says....
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

"US" there is the church! The WRATH is the agony and tribulation taking place at the beginning of the Day of the Lord. We, the church will be spared this event.

 

[seventysevens]

There is no place in Hebrew history where God has swept up a mass amount of people to keep them OUT of danger while the world goes down too.

The more you talk the more you reveal how little you know or understand about scripture
The harvests of saints are only prophetic about the end of the age that occurs shortly before Jesus return to earth , it will happen , have you been resurrected ? no , does that mean it won't happen ?

 

[Kaon]

Since YOU deny the Rapture and it is certainly your choice to do so and I respect your choice, however I am curious how YOU would explain these Scriptures in 1 Thess. 4:13-18..........
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the LORD shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the LORD himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Can you explain your position BIBLICALLY: and so shall we ever be with the LORD. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Now Revelation 20:5-6 tells us that .........
"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years".

So we see if there is a FIRST Resurrection then there will be a SECOND Resurrection which is the SECOND DEATH.

Can you explain your position BIBLICALLY??

It is appointed to man to die once, then Judgment.

If you believe you will be whisked away in between advents, and get to watch as the SAME SINNERS go through hell on earth (this, also after NOT believing in full obedience) then I hope you find what you are looking for. It is a strong delusion I hope everyone is released from, but it is intoxicating to think that God would qualify sinners, and that He would let them sit out what He has appointed for the generations since the beginning: to be witnesses and a remnant.



And, I am not denying the Word of God. It is not the biblical canon; it is a Living Entity. Paul is a man; he is not Christ. And, while he is in the canon, I understand he is NOT contradicting Christ even though he is the most overused human.

Christ Himself, and Him on your heart from the New Covenant is what is GUARANTEED to us. We have Grace, the Holy Spirit, God's Mercy, God's forgiveness, God's love, and God's ATTENTION - all given to US by Him. And, despite none of the prophecies yet to come speaking of a rapture we still need to be SWEPT AWAY?

Daniel 11 told you that the "wise ones" will teach many, but some wise ones will die by sword, flame, spoil and captivity. Paul said at the last TRUMP, the dead rise first (since they are already dead,) and then the living rise. That is the RESURRECTION, not rapture.

God is not angry with us; no matter what happens to us, God is not angry with us. I am very afraid this rapture doctrine, and the thought that we don't have to follow God's commandments are parts of strong delusion. You lose your faith if you are wrong about the rapture. And, there is a set up to destroy ALL faith - even atheism - in exchange for a MYSTERY religion served to us by false prophets.

 

[Major1]

The event of 1Thessalonians4:13-18 is both a resurrection and a rapture. Jesus was the authority who raised Lazarus from the dead - so why don't you think the voice saying come up hither to dead in Christ and them who are alive at the time, is Jesus's ?

Agreed. The RAPTURE is part of the FIRST RESURRECTION.

Every believer is part of the first resurrection, no matter when his or her resurrection takes place. The Bible teaches us that the 1st Resurrection takes place over a period of about 2000 years.

There are different times believers either have been or will be resurrected.

The first was Jesus, and with Him there were the holy people who came out of their tombs in Matt. 27:52-53.

Then we have believers who died in Christ and will be resurrected at the time of the rapture in 1 Thes. 4:16-17.

Then there will be the resurrection of tribulation martyrs in Rev. 20:4 and Old Testament saints of Daniel 12:2 at the time of the 2nd Coming.

They are all part of the first resurrection. . It follows then that any teaching that requires all believers to be resurrected on the day of the Lord’s 2nd Coming is flawed.

But there’s more. In 1 Thes.4:16-17 Paul wrote that the resurrection of Church Age believers will coincide with the rapture. Isaiah wrote of a resurrection that would precede the time of God’s wrath in Isaiah 26:19-20, and Paul said the rapture would also precede the coming wrath in 1 Thes. 1:10.

Jesus confirmed this in Rev. 3:10 did He not???
Since the resurrection of the Church and the rapture will happen at the same time, this can only be the resurrection of those who died in Christ. So the resurrection of Church Age believers has to precede the 2nd Coming by at least 7 years, the duration of the time of God’s wrath.
The Rapture And The First Resurrection – Grace thru faith

 

[Kaon]

The more you talk the more you reveal how little you know or understand about scripture
The harvests of saints are only prophetic about the end of the age that occurs shortly before Jesus return to earth , it will happen , have you been resurrected ? no , does that mean it won't happen ?

Ok.

 

[precepts]

The event of 1Thessalonians4:13-18 is both a resurrection and a rapture. Jesus was the authority who raised Lazarus from the dead - so why don't you think the voice saying come up hither to dead in Christ and them who are alive at the time, is Jesus's ?

Because there are thousands of angels in heaven?

And 1 Thess. 4:13-18 is a resurrection rapture, yes, but it does not say than anyone was left behind as defined in your rapture doctrine because it's referring to the 2nd resurrection in heaven, the 1st resurrected being those that were coming back with Christ because the 1st resurrection happened in heaven:

Jhn 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
Jhn 4:38 I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.​

In the "wheat and tares" resurrection, the 3rd resurrection, Christ does not come back with the angels, nor is there a throne judgment like in the 2nd resurrection:

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
=================
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.​

Notice the wicked are gathered first, instead of the righteous being raised first in 1 Thess. 4:13-18!

Here endeth the umpteenth lesson to Douggg.

 

[precepts]

Why don't you provide the rest of the passage, in context?

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 show that chapter 4 is connected to chapter 5.

The timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5.

The word "But" in 1 Thessalonians 5:1 also connects the two chapters.

The event occurs on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".

The same language is used in 2 Peter 3:10, and Revelation 16:15-16, which are Second Coming passages.

.

Yes, but you forgot to mention that "the day of the Lord" as described thru out the scriptures is the 2nd resurrection, when the wicked are judged, when the new heaven of heaven and the new earth of heaven occur, when the new Yah-ru-Shalem replaces the one in heaven, when "that generation" and those who where standing there tastes death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom

 

[DavidPT]

First Thess. 4 does not say only the righteous are risen and taken. Plus the context of the book of Revelation's 1st resurrection is heaven: God's throne set in the temple that is in heaven; Souls found under the altar of the temple that's in heaven; A priest takes incense/prayers from the altar of incense, of the temple that's in heaven; etc.

I am apparently failing to grasp how any of the above infers that the context of the book of Revelation's 1st resurrection is heaven.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


The above is the first resurrection, meaning this----and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. When do they initially do that? Obviously after the time of the two beasts per Revelation 13 is already in the past, meaning the 42 months the beast is allowed to continue. and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands---this obviously takes place during this same 42 months mentioned in Revelation 13. It would be during this 42 months that led to their martyrdom, the reward then being the first resurrection, meaning after the time of the 42 months in Revelation 13. Therefore the timing of the first resurrection is the 2nd coming of Christ. When Christ returns, His destination is Earth not heaven.

And the clincher is 2 Pet 3, proving Christ only returns on the day of judgement when the new heavenly heaven and heavenly earth occurs, when those that where standing there taste death when they witness the kingdom of Christ coming, the new Yah-ru-Shalem coming down from the heavens of heaven and replacing the old heavenly city where the temple in heaven was.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you somewhere, I, too, agree about the timing you propose in regards to those that where standing there taste death when they witness the kingdom of Christ coming.

 

[Postvieww]

I Do! Why wouldn't anyone?????

Was the Garden of Eden literal or symbolic?
Was the parting of the Red sea literal or symbolic?
Was the Lord speaking out of a burning bush literal or symbolic?
Was Jonah's fish literal or symbolic?

IMO, when the LITERAL meaning makes the most sense then that is what I accept.
The Bible will tell you when something is symbolic or a metaphor.

Isaiah 13:9-10............
"Behold, the Day of the Lord, is coming, cruel, with fury and burning anger, to make the land a desolation; and He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light. The sun will be dark when it rises, and the moon will not shed its light."

Is that symbolic?????

Zeph. 1:14-15.............
"The great Day of the Lord, is near and coming very quickly. Listen, theDay of the Lord.! In it the warrior cries out bitterly. A Day of wrath is that Day, A Day of trouble and distress, A Day of destruction and desolation, A Day of darkness and gloom, A DayDay of clouds and thick darkness".

Great, glad you agree our gathering (God’s elect) will be immediately after the tribulation and after the man of sin is revealed!

 

[Major1]

Great, glad you agree our gathering (God’s elect) will be immediately after the tribulation and after the man of sin is revealed!

Now my dear brother. I do hope you are kidding as your little icon suggests as if not you are once again ADDING your words to my mouth.

I love ya brother and enjoy the debate.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-6 actually says the Rapture will come 1st THEN the A/C...... "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (Rapture) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (Rapture) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;(A/C). Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

 

[Postvieww]

That is of course YOUR personal opinion. I disagree with your opinion.

IMO the 24 elders in Rev. 4:4 are the representatives of the Raptured church as priests before God. David actually divided the Levitical Priesthood into 24 sections in 1 Chron. 24:7-19. Believers are seen here in chapter 4 & 5 as Kingdom priests (Rev. 1:6).

As you opened the statement, your opinion, which is based on what in the text? Again 5:9 is a statement as to what Jesus accomplished. Not claiming those redeemed are in heaven.

12 Tribes of Jews + 12 Apostles = 1 Church in heaven before the throne.

12 + 12 does = 24 but it does not equal Jews or Apostles.

Please consider Rev. 4:4 and notice that this group has CROWNS, WHITE RAIMENT.

Jesus, believers, angels and locusts wear crowns, and Jesus, believers and angels wear white that opens up the interpretation possibilities a bit.

If that is not the rewards given a the Judgment Seat of Christ then what are they my friend?

Could be just crowns.

WHITE RAIMENT shows their righteousness which had to have been judged and then purified. If not then what is your thinking????

Angels wear white as well.

Now in 5:9, doesn't the phrase ....."Out Of every tribe ... tongue ... people ... nation ... speak to the universal characteristic of the church is stressed by this. It is the church of our Lord Jesus Christ that actually concerns every man ever born on earth.

Yes, but unless you are ready to claim the 4 beasts are also redeemed by the blood of the Lamb you might consider the ASV translation of that verse. The Elders and 4 beasts all sang the same song. I believe that is the literal reading.