How Do We Know That The Bible Is The Complete and Inerrant Word of God?

[Sam Karriker]

With all of the different translations of the Bible and with all sorts of men having their hands in its "creation and distribution"...how do we know that what we have available to us today is the inerrant and complete word of God?

 

[Hieronymus]

There are only so many manuscripts on which all translations are based.
But, you'll find differences between those too.
Nothing really dramatic though.
But is it complete?
I think 1st Enoch can be added to the Canon, because it provides a lot of context and insight and it is cited in the Bible too.

 

[Halbhh]

With all of the different translations of the Bible and with all sorts of men having their hands in its "creation and distribution"...how do we know that what we have available to us today is the inerrant and complete word of God?

A very good sign about things in the Old Testament happened when the Dead Sea Scrolls included a complete copy of Isaiah, and dated from about 100 to 200 years before Christ, and comparing it to our own modern Isaiah shows our repeatedly transcribed version was/is accurate!

About the Gospel of Mark, the widespread consensus it was written down in 66-70 AD, which is about 35 years after Christ ascended.

But something that not many people realize is that 35 years means that people who were 19, 20, 22 that heard Christ would be....the survivors in their 50s!

Because an average age of lifespan was around 47, this means that while many died younger, many would live well longer (like a bell curve), so that some portion of eye witnesses to Christ would still be alive when the Gospel of Mark was written down!

It's thought one of the main reasons Mark was written down is exactly because more of the surviving eye witnesses were passing on, and it was felt good to write down what all had been heard.

So, most people haven't thought of this mathematically (of course), and don't realize living eye witnesses were around when Mark was written. This is the kind of thing only the math geek would see right off, possibly.

 

[Noxot]

I would not say complete. i'm sure God has more to say.

I would not say inerrant on all levels due to how God had to use what is available in humans and so he is somewhat limited due to his need to keep his humans free even though he himself is capable of hiding his wisdom in the crudest of narratives since to actually come to know him requires more than seeing some crudely fashioned or well sculpted expression of his likeness.

only in spirit and truth can someone truly claim "complete and inerrant" because it is a spiritual declaration in God and communion with him. so such claims require that you have at least to some measure partaken of:

Matt 5:3-12 (YLT)
`Happy the poor in spirit--because theirs is the reign of the heavens. `Happy the mourning--because they shall be comforted. `Happy the meek--because they shall inherit the land. `Happy those hungering and thirsting for righteousness--because they shall be filled. `Happy the kind--because they shall find kindness. `Happy the clean in heart--because they shall see God. `Happy the peacemakers--because they shall be called Sons of God. `Happy those persecuted for righteousness' sake--because theirs is the reign of the heavens. `Happy are ye whenever they may reproach you, and may persecute, and may say any evil thing against you falsely for my sake-- rejoice ye and be glad, because your reward is great in the heavens, for thus did they persecute the prophets who were before you.

 

[timewerx]

With all of the different translations of the Bible and with all sorts of men having their hands in its "creation and distribution"...how do we know that what we have available to us today is the inerrant and complete word of God?

Maybe.....

But with the many many Christians claiming to have indwelling of the Holy Spirit but differ in interpretation of many teachings in the Bible, many denominations each claiming to have the truth but differing in interpretations, sometimes, contradicting makes it difficult to trust who is telling the truth.

If they make errors, even pastors making errors, what is our chance?

I think the only thing we can do is don't stop trying to figure out the truth. I guess it's not simple enough to read the Bible or even go to church, accept Jesus, be active in ministry. It's not enough.

 

[Halbhh]

Maybe.....

But with the many many Christians claiming to have indwelling of the Holy Spirit but differ in interpretation of many teachings in the Bible, many denominations each claiming to have the truth but differing in interpretations, sometimes, contradicting makes it difficult to trust who is telling the truth.

If they make errors, even pastors making errors, what is our chance?

I think the only thing we can do is don't stop trying to figure out the truth. I guess it's not simple enough to read the Bible or even go to church, accept Jesus, be active in ministry. It's not enough.

Exactly. Using what Christ Himself said (and expanded on in the epistles), we know that their attitude and fruits -- whether they show real love (and other fruits) -- is a decisive sign of where they are really at. I don't judge against people that haven't really found Him yet, but instead try to help them.

 

[fhansen]

With all of the different translations of the Bible and with all sorts of men having their hands in its "creation and distribution"...how do we know that what we have available to us today is the inerrant and complete word of God?

There's no way to know even if we had the originals. We have to hear His voice within the words.

 

[Halbhh]

There's no way to know even if we had the originals. We have to hear His voice within the words.

See post #3

But (even seeing the known accuracy about some things) still there is also the true metaphor that even if one thinks we have an old window with some flaws, and even if broken or having whatever bits of distortions even, being a window, however it's condition, the light of the sun shines through!

Light comes through both imperfect and perfect windows and shines down on us, illuminating.

 

[Kaon]

With all of the different translations of the Bible and with all sorts of men having their hands in its "creation and distribution"...how do we know that what we have available to us today is the inerrant and complete word of God?

IT ISN'T.


The LIVING Word of God is the inerrant, living Word of God. It has been written on our hearts as per the new covenant.



The bible is a canon. If you want to know the Truth, look inside of you (i.e. you already know what is right and wrong, and you have The Way to ascertain your spiritual progress without the need for a canonical textbook.)

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

IT ISN'T.


The LIVING Word of God is the inerrant, living Word of God. It has been written on our hearts as per the new covenant.



The bible is a canon. If you want to know the Truth, look inside of you (i.e. you already know what is right and wrong, and you have The Way to ascertain your spiritual progress without the need for a canonical textbook.)

Only if you know it to begin with tho.

 

[Halbhh]

Yes, we need to have heard Jesus speaking to you and me --

"Love one another"

"So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you"

"Forgive...seven times seventy times"

"...unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

and more, much more! Such as the right ways to pray, so that we are really helped. Powerful and crucial things He said in order that we would listen and hear.

.

 

[Kaon]

Only if you know it to begin with tho.

The Word of God - Christ - is already inside of you, and the New Covenant promises that this Word of God will be written on our hearts so that we won't have to ask our neighbour if they know God.

The Comforter has been given to us for conviction and direction; The Comforter teaches us how to walk in the ways of the Most High God. You don't need a bible text to know God.


He has told us several times: He is knocking at the door. If you believe you need a text first, and not to seek the Most High God with all of your might, soul and spirit, then perhaps you are doing it backwards. The Word of God reaching every corner of the earth is not about the successful expansion of Catholicism, Protestantism or Calvinism through imperialism. This pouring of spirit is a continuation of PENTACOST (remember, the feast of trumpets has not been fulfilled yet, as well as atonement and sukkot.)


With the political history alone surrounding the bible, one should not treat it as an extension of divine instruction - especially if other books are treated as simple texts from which to learn. No man should choose what is good for another man's spiritual walk except for Christ.

 

[Hieronymus]

The Word of God - Christ - is already inside of you, and the New Covenant promises that this Word of God will be written on our hearts so that we won't have to ask our neighbour if they know God.

We're discussing the written word, the Bible.
Without it we wouldn't know the Gospel.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Only if you know it to begin with tho.

That's also someone who is prepared in season and out to give reason (scripture) to their stance.

 

[Halbhh]

The Word of God - Christ - is already inside of you, and the New Covenant promises that this Word of God will be written on our hearts so that we won't have to ask our neighbour if they know God.

The Comforter has been given to us for conviction and direction; The Comforter teaches us how to walk in the ways of the Most High God. You don't need a bible text to know God.


He has told us several times: He is knocking at the door. If you believe you need a text first, and not to seek the Most High God with all of your might, soul and spirit, then perhaps you are doing it backwards. The Word of God reaching every corner of the earth is not about the successful expansion of Catholicism, Protestantism or Calvinism through imperialism. This pouring of spirit is a continuation of PENTACOST (remember, the feast of trumpets has not been fulfilled yet, as well as atonement and sukkot.)


With the political history alone surrounding the bible, one should not treat it as an extension of divine instruction - especially if other books are treated as simple texts from which to learn. No man should choose what is good for another man's spiritual walk except for Christ.

Good points! Really.

But it's not an either/or of course! We need to truly seek God at some point, in faith, and we truly do have the spirit come, and we cannot ignore what Christ said, but must truly listen and hear Him saying to us "love one another", and let His Word past our defenses and all the way into our hearts, even if we did not read His Words in print, or even if we have! His Words are a great aid. So, it's not an either/or, but a both/and.

You may need to know, even in your mind, at times, that He told you to forgive your brother from your heart, else you may at times wait to forgive when you really need to pray and go to it, I feel. His Words are an amazingly powerful transformer of us, to read and listen and hear.

 

[Kaon]

We're discussing the written word, the Bible.
Without it we wouldn't know the Gospel.

Yes you would. The Word of God is not contained in any text or books. The Good News was delivered person to person, but while PENTACOST was going on, people made the spiritual connection to God first (love, obedience, etc.) and then they learned more about life and what He expected from them as they grow. Milk to meat. Besides, He gave us a Comforter - something the people before Pentacost were not afforded (yet, they still managed to have a decent/upright conscious so that they chose to be obedient to God.)

No human needs a church or ecumenical entity to spread the Gospel/good news: you should know in your heart the good news. I think people know this because they inherently understand there is a forgiveness and justice system that transcends this life - even if they disagree with it.

Christ is knocking on the door; all it takes is to let Him in. The bible will never save your soul no matter how well you know it: that is what the Pharisees believed. Christ destroyed the paradigm of organized (demented) religion, and re-educated man on the fundamentals of the relationship with God first, then academia/canonical interpretation. Canons and texts are an innovation of man, allegedly from the angels that fell and got the world into record keeping and contracts. It goes deeper than the canon, but we are told to never go there because men have said it is "not inspired." Or, because our doctrine prevent us from seeing the simplicity that is Christ.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Yes you would. The Word of God is not contained in any text or books. The Good News was delivered person to person, but while PENTACOST was going on, people made the spiritual connection to God first (love, obedience, etc.) and then they learned more about life and what He expected from them as they grow. Milk to meat. Besides, He gave us a Comforter - something the people before Pentacost were not afforded (yet, they still managed to have a decent/upright conscious so that they chose to be obedient to God.)

No human needs a church or ecumenical entity to spread the Gospel/good news: you should know in your heart the good news. I think people know this because they inherently understand there is a forgiveness and justice system that transcends this life - even if they disagree with it.

Christ is knocking on the door; all it takes is to let Him in. The bible will never save your soul no matter how well you know it: that is what the Pharisees believed. Christ destroyed the paradigm of organized (demented) religion, and re-educated man on the fundamentals of the relationship with God first, then academia/canonical interpretation. Canons and texts are an innovation of man, allegedly from the angels that fell and got the world into record keeping and contracts. It goes deeper than the canon, but we are told to never go there because men have said it is "not inspired." Or, because our doctrine prevent us from seeing the simplicity that is Christ.

The bible contains the motherload of gold, other writings contain gems that are also found in the bible or they are not scriptural based and therefore unacceptable as proof. Better to know the bible.

 

[com7fy8]

@Sam Karriker Hi, Sam Welcome to Christian Forums God bless you, howsoever He pleases. How God blesses us is included in the correct interpretation of His word. How God in us has us loving and living the way His word means is what needs to be accurate. God knows all He means; God in us more and more corrects and matures us to discover how He in us has us living His word.

For every scripture there is God's love meaning, which can help me get more real with God and how He has me loving any and all people.

Also, I often keep being surprised . . . with prayer . . . how translation work of a same scripture can seem very different in different Bibles but the meaning can actually be related. But it is kind of hard to get around how scholars of a certain word can say it means a sea cow while others say it means an antelope and others have said the same word means a badger.

But I can get a love meaning out of any of the words or all combined.

God in His love cares for those in the sea or the dainty or those living down in holes. If the Jews were told to use the skin of an unclean animal, such as a badger, this could poetically be a prophecy of how one day Jesus would die not only for the Jews but for the Gentiles whom a number of Jews considered to be common and unclean.

But what about using skin from a sea cow?? They were in the wilderness where there was no water. They could have brought such skins from Egypt where there is the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea, where for all I know there might be sea cows. This could represent how God is able to use, for His love purposes, things which are from our past and which could seem to have no significance or relevance to now We can use past or present things for God's love purposes; this is part of the correct interpretation of the Bible.

I think 1st Enoch can be added to the Canon,

You say there is reference to this book? In the Bible, is there a scripture which both names the book plus gives an actual quote which that scripture says is in the book of Enoch?

I ask this, because a scripture might name Enoch but not give an actual quote; so in such a case can you know the scripture means the Enoch of the book? Also, there might be a scripture which has a similar matching item in the book of Enoch, but this does not automatically mean the scripture is quoting the book of Enoch. And how well does all the rest of Enoch match with scripture, in case some part does or seems to?

About the Gospel of Mark, the widespread consensus it was written down in 66-70 AD, which is about 35 years after Christ ascended.

Why do they think this? May be because the grammar of the copy is a match with the grammar and writing style of about 66-70 AD. But what if someone translated an earlier copy . . . like how now ones do translations with more up-to-date vocabulary and writing style? And how do they know there were no earlier copies? The ones being used could have gotten worn out.

Of course, a consideration is, why weren't more copies found, if there had been more copies shared up until then? You would think the early Christians would have made more copies if more had existed up until 66-70 AD. Plus, for that matter, how come more copies were not found at the time of that copy? I would think people would have started copying it, right away . . . for the whole church. So, I think number of copies found for a certain time might not be an indication.

many many Christians claiming to have indwelling of the Holy Spirit but differ in interpretation of many teachings in the Bible,

Ones can get sidetracked to knowledge and explanation and answering to arguments. But we need to submit to God so He has us doing all He means by each scripture. Isaiah 55:11 guarantees how God's word "shall accomplish what I please". So, it is wise not to evaluate by how humans are failing, but submit to God and how He is succeeding to have us live His meaning of His word.

even pastors making errors, what is our chance?

There is no chance about Isaiah 55:11

 

[Halbhh]

the simplicity that is Christ.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

 

[Kaon]

Good points! Really.

But it's not an either/or of course! We need to truly seek God at some point, in faith, and we truly do have the spirit come, and we cannot ignore what Christ said, but must truly listen and hear Him saying to us "love one another", and let His Word past our defenses and all the way into our hearts, even if we did not read His Words in print, or even if we have! His Words are a great aid. So, it's not an either/or, but a both/and.

You may need to know, even in your mind, at times, that He told you to forgive your brother from your heart, else you may at times wait to forgive when you really need to pray and go to it, I feel. His Words are an amazingly powerful transformer of us, to read and listen and hear.

I understand your point (I think) about the shades of gray, but I don't think there is a gray area. Faith is a transformative thing; it transcends carnality and the periodic activity of humanity and human thinking - which is why hardly anyone has FAITH, and Christ alludes to it when He asks if He will find it.

The Comforter is what destroys the gray area - and this is something people before Christ were not afforded. Their spirits were DEAD, and they were simple sons of men. This is why it is such a big deal when God found someone on the planet that had the conviction to believe, and try to remain obedient to His statutes - as a carnal man with no spirit!

Why, then, do we believe we can ignore His statutes when we are given the gift of a convicting Spirit to not only make us think twice about sin, but also instructs us on how to live upright and according to the Most High God. God may have been more lenient when we were DEAD, but in Christ we are now ALIVE (He meant what He said,) and we are held to a much higher standard than a DEAD carnal man.

And, even the DEAD, CARNAL man was expected to have [unyielding] faith and Know His Voice, and remain obedient to the Most High God.