How to choose between creation and evolution.

[AnotherAtheist]

What does that has to do with biology?

Whoops! I didn't even notice that, still working on asking OWG to clarify his definition of 'irreducible complexity'.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How is 'wonder' incompatible with natural evolution?

We could play with the term as it can be applied, I guess.

 

[Larniavc]

Whoops! I didn't even notice that, still working on asking OWG to clarify his definition of 'irreducible complexity'.

I’d like to know how IC is measured.

Units of wonder?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That’s as biological system is it?

Seriously?

Meaning?

 

[Speedwell]

I’d like to know how IC is measured.

Units of wonder?

Dumbskis.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Whoops! I didn't even notice that, still working on asking OWG to clarify his definition of 'irreducible complexity'.

Simply that "you can't get here from there" no matter how much time you allow. Modern man is not the product of an indefinable force acting on a microscopic 'one-celled' organism (which would be a miracle in itself) over a period of time.

 

[Speedwell]

Simply that "you can't get here from there" no matter how much time you allow. Modern man is not the product of an indefinable force acting on a microscopic 'one-celled' organism (which would be a miracle in itself) over a period of time.

Maybe not, but so far it's just an assertion.

 

[Larniavc]

Meaning?

I asked for a biological system. Your example was not biological. Are you being purposefully obtuse?

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Simply that "you can't get here from there" no matter how much time you allow. Modern man is not the product of an indefinable force acting on a microscopic 'one-celled' organism (which would be a miracle in itself) over a period of time.

There is no 'indefinable force'. There's random mutation (which is well understood) put through the filter of survival of the fittest. Where is the 'indefinable' in that?

Why do you quote 'one-celled', and how is a one-celled organism a miracle?

Can you name something that fits the description 'you can't get here from there'? Typically 'intelligent design advocates claim that flagella and eyes are examples of irreducible complexity, but it doesn't take much research to reveal that these examples aren't irreducibly complex.

 

[bhsmte]

EVERYTHING truthful that I know of , true science, true faith, true history, and so on,
is totally incompatible with so-called evolution.

Same, in part, as if someone claims a painting hanging in one of those art galleries just "appeared" in any way, over any length of time , without an artist !

Total nonsense, eh !?

How do you determine what; true faith, true history and true science is?

Would it happen to coincide with your personal faith beliefs?

 

[AnotherAtheist]

EVERYTHING truthful that I know of , true science, true faith, true history, and so on,
is totally incompatible with so-called evolution.

Same, in part, as if someone claims a painting hanging in one of those art galleries just "appeared" in any way, over any length of time , without an artist !

Total nonsense, eh !?

But, we're not talking about paintings, we've talking about living things.

It's like saying: Same, in part, as if someone claims a painting was the product of a mummy painting and a daddy painting getting together and making a baby painting which grew up.

Total nonsense, eh !?

Or: It's like saying: Same, in part, as if someone claims a painting ate stuff, digested it, and then had a poop.

Total nonsense, eh !?

For a painting, yes both of these claims would be nonsense. For a living thing like a badger, it wouldn't be nonsense for either of the claims.

Same for your original analogy. Just because something couldn't happen for a painting in no way means that it couldn't happen (or have happened) for a living thing.

 

[DogmaHunter]

so if that watch had those traits you will say its just evolved?

Then it wouldn't be a watch.

 

[DogmaHunter]

In the real world what is is usually what it appears to be.

The sun appears to orbit the earth.
The earth appears to be stationary.
Time appears to be a constant

 

[DogmaHunter]

EVERYTHING truthful that I know of , true science, true faith, true history, and so on,
is totally incompatible with so-called evolution.

You must not have much of such "true" knowledge then.

Same, in part, as if someone claims a painting hanging in one of those art galleries just "appeared" in any way, over any length of time , without an artist !

Paintings and living organisms, are not the same thing.

Total nonsense, eh !?

yes, total nonsense indeed. Probably not for the reasons that you think though.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The sun appears to orbit the earth.
The earth appears to be stationary.
Time appears to be a constant

And organisms appear to have been purposely created.

 

[Brightmoon]

You didn’t understand that none of these are true

The sun appears to orbit the earth.
The earth appears to be stationary.
Time appears to be a constant

The earth revolves around the sun. The earth moves around the sun while it’s moving around the galaxy . The galaxy is also moving through space. And anyone who understands that gravity wells bend spacetime knows that time isn’t constant. While to someone who doesn’t understand biology, organisms might appear to be designed, they aren’t. Superficial appearance doesn’t mean much in science

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You didn’t understand that none of these are true

For practical purposes they are all true. I reset my clocks because the batteries run down, not because time isn't 'constant'.

 

[Brightmoon]

Go back and read what I wrote

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Go back and read what I wrote

What do you think I should be doing about what you wrote?

 

[PsychoSarah]

That's quite a story.

-_- that your best argument against it? It's not like there isn't fossil evidence supporting my story, as you put it (fossilized bacteria colonies also are surrounded by byproducts of their metabolism).