Instituted at Creation

[BobRyan]

Where does Scripture record Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath? Prior to the fall they did not labor any day.
Where does Scripture record Enoch keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Noah keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Abraham keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Jacob keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath?

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

 

[prodromos]

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

So your answer is that Scripture nowhere records anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath. Thank you.
Does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses being required to keep the Sabbath?

 

[BobRyan]

Where does Scripture record Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath? Prior to the fall they did not labor any day.
Where does Scripture record Enoch keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Noah keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Abraham keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Jacob keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath?

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

So your answer is that Scripture nowhere records anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath. Thank you.
Does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses being required to keep the Sabbath?

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

BTW - still arguing that all the saints before Moses were taking God's name in vain?

 

[prodromos]

BTW - still arguing that all the saints before Moses were taking God's name in vain?

Why don't you douse that strawman in petrol and set it on fire. At least it might provide a little bit of heat and light.

I've asked for evidence that anyone prior to Moses kept the Sabbath and you have not provided any. The Sabbath as a hallowed day of rest was not revealed to Israel until their exodus from slavery in Egypt. Prior to then it is not mentioned once, and it was certainly unknown to the Israelites for the generations they were slaves in Egypt.

 

[BobRyan]

Where does Scripture record Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath? Prior to the fall they did not labor any day.
Where does Scripture record Enoch keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Noah keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Abraham keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Jacob keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath?

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

So your answer is that Scripture nowhere records anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath. Thank you.
Does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses being required to keep the Sabbath?

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

BTW - still arguing that all the saints before Moses were taking God's name in vain?

I've asked for evidence that anyone prior to Moses kept the Sabbath

And I've asked for evidence that Eve ever slept
Or that anyone prior to Moses - knew they were not supposed to take God's name in vain.
Or how Noah was supposed to know what a clean vs unclean animal is without first having Moses write Lev 11 for him.
Or how Cain was supposed to know that it was a sin to murder his brother.

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

The Sabbath as a hallowed day of rest was not revealed to Israel until their exodus from slavery in Egypt. Prior to then it is not mentioned once,

The command to not take God's name in vain is not mentioned once prior to Moses.

The point remains -- you are using a straw argument that the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects, that D.L. Moody rejects, that the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects, that the RCC rejects.. that the Bible rejects.

=======================


From The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com


65. Where may we find the elements of the doctrine of charity?

In the Ten Commandments of the Law of God.



490. You said that these Commandments were given to the people of Israel: must we, then, also walk by them?

We must: for they are in substance the same law which, in the words of St. Paul, has been written in the hearts of all men, that all should walk by it.



491. Did Jesus Christ teach men to walk by the Ten Commandments?

He bade men, if they would attain to everlasting life, to keep the Commandments and taught us to understand and fulfill them more perfectly than had been done before he came. Matt xix. 17, and v.

On the Division of the Commandments into Two Tables.

492. What means the division of the Ten Commandments into two tables?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

BTW - still arguing that all the saints before Moses were taking God's name in vain?

And I've asked for evidence that Eve ever slept
Or that anyone prior to Moses - knew they were not supposed to take God's name in vain.
Or how Noah was supposed to know what a clean vs unclean animal is without first having Moses write Lev 11 for him.
Or how Cain was supposed to know that it was a sin to murder his brother.

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

The command to not take God's name in vain is not mentioned once prior to Moses.

The point remains -- you are using a straw argument that the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects, that D.L. Moody rejects, that the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects, that the RCC rejects.. that the Bible rejects.

=======================

From The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

65. Where may we find the elements of the doctrine of charity?

In the Ten Commandments of the Law of God.

490. You said that these Commandments were given to the people of Israel: must we, then, also walk by them?

We must: for they are in substance the same law which, in the words of St. Paul, has been written in the hearts of all men, that all should walk by it.

491. Did Jesus Christ teach men to walk by the Ten Commandments?

He bade men, if they would attain to everlasting life, to keep the Commandments and taught us to understand and fulfill them more perfectly than had been done before he came. Matt xix. 17, and v.

On the Division of the Commandments into Two Tables.

492. What means the division of the Ten Commandments into two tables?

While we are on the topic of making your argument from silence, please address the following questions:

1. Where does the Bible say how many times a day Adam beat Eve?
2. Where does the Bible tell you that Mary is the New Eve?
3. Where does the Bible inform us that Mohammed is the promised Comforter?

Thanks!

 

[BobRyan]

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

BTW - still arguing that all the saints before Moses were taking God's name in vain?

And I've asked for evidence that Eve ever slept
Or that anyone prior to Moses - knew they were not supposed to take God's name in vain.
Or how Noah was supposed to know what a clean vs unclean animal is without first having Moses write Lev 11 for him.
Or how Cain was supposed to know that it was a sin to murder his brother.

While we are on the topic of making your argument from silence, please address the following questions:

1. Where does the Bible say how many times a day Adam beat Eve?
2. Where does the Bible tell you that Mary is the New Eve?
3. Where does the Bible inform us that Mohammed is the promised Comforter?
Thanks!

All those "bible failed to mention this before Exodus" arguments fail. As I demonstrated in the examples given in the post

 

[Joelthe vicious]

The irony of course is that we rent out our church building to Haitian Seventh Day Adventists. If Adventists really teach that all us non-Sabbatarians are terrible rebels against God, I have to wonder about the wisdom of such a partnership.

Petty

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Money rules, doesn't it? Maybe you should approach your pastor about what they do.

What gives you the idea your church isn't driven by... money!? Churches in America is the biggest industry in the world. Much bigger than America's defence budget or motor industry or IT or them altogether. Take Sunday its worship day away and within a few months of America’s economy remains nothing but the world in bankruptcy and anarchy. Which day is upon us all!

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?

Good question.

Answer:

Scripture does not say because Adam and Eve never slept after they were created together “man and woman”, or at all before they were driven OUT ON SABBATH MORNING, Genesis 3:24 Hebrews 4:12.

And they were expelled from Eden and the Sabbath on the Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD their GOD, be-cause:- on the Sixth Day already, they had taken His Name in vain, Genesis 3:2,3, and on the Seventh Day Sabbath, Genesis 3:12, again.

 

[prodromos]

Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11

Genesis 2:1-3 refers only to the seventh day. It does not speak of the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis 2:1-3 refers only to the seventh day. It does not speak of the Sabbath.

Until you read Exodus 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3 where we are told that the Genesis 2:1-3 details "alone" make the Sabbath Holy

 

[BobRyan]

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

BTW - still arguing that all the saints before Moses were taking God's name in vain?

And I've asked for evidence that Eve ever slept
Or that anyone prior to Moses - knew they were not supposed to take God's name in vain.
Or how Noah was supposed to know what a clean vs unclean animal is without first having Moses write Lev 11 for him.
Or how Cain was supposed to know that it was a sin to murder his brother.

While we are on the topic of making your argument from silence, please address the following questions:

1. Where does the Bible say how many times a day Adam beat Eve?
2. Where does the Bible tell you that Mary is the New Eve?
3. Where does the Bible inform us that Mohammed is the promised Comforter?
Thanks!

All those "bible failed to mention this before Exodus" arguments fail. As I demonstrated in the examples given in the post

Good question.

Answer:

Scripture does not say because Adam and Eve never slept after they were created together “man and woman”, or at all before they were driven OUT ON SABBATH MORNING, Genesis 3:24 Hebrews 4:12.

And they were expelled from Eden and the Sabbath on the Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD their GOD, be-cause:- on the Sixth Day already, they had taken His Name in vain, Genesis 3:2,3, and on the Seventh Day Sabbath, Genesis 3:12, again.

There is no record of Eve ever sleeping either before sin or after.

Such "details" mean nothing against the fact that Eve did sleep each night.And we all know it.

By contrast the Sabbath being sanctified and set apart as a day of worship is in both Exodus 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3 such that Exodus 20:11 says God already did it - and that it was done when He rested in Genesis 2

 

[listed]

Unfortunately it's the difference between keeping our doors open and shutting them altogether. When you have a congregation where the average age is over 60 and living on a fixed income it puts a strain on everything.

understood. I live on fixed income and still save 300 to 500 a month.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever slept after they met each other or that Eve ever slept at all?
Where does scripture say that Adam and Eve ever saw the moon?
Where does scripture say that Adam was not supposed to take God's name in vain?
Genesis 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was given on day 7 so also does Exodus 20:11
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's Commandments.

"Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaks to the day of the "MAKING" of both. As we see it in Genesis 2:1-3

BTW - still arguing that all the saints before Moses were taking God's name in vain?

And I've asked for evidence that Eve ever slept
Or that anyone prior to Moses - knew they were not supposed to take God's name in vain.
Or how Noah was supposed to know what a clean vs unclean animal is without first having Moses write Lev 11 for him.
Or how Cain was supposed to know that it was a sin to murder his brother.



All those "bible failed to mention this before Exodus" arguments fail. As I demonstrated in the examples given in the post



There is no record of Eve ever sleeping either before sin or after.

Such "details" mean nothing against the fact that Eve did sleep each night.And we all know it.

By contrast the Sabbath being sanctified and set apart as a day of worship is in both Exodus 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3 such that Exodus 20:11 says God already did it - and that it was done when He rested in Genesis 2

All that you have demonstrated is that the Bible does not answer many questions, not the least of which, as you have clearly shown, is whether or not God instituted the Sabbath prior to Sinai.

 

[listed]

Jesus said "if you would enter into life KEEP the Commandments" -- then Jesus was asked "Which ONES"?

Question - did He say "I am the Law of God now -- keep ME"?

What did He actually say -- given that we don't want to make anything up - what did HE say?

I'll start with:

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Please note Jesus said to keep His commandments. Jesus didn't say keep My Father's commandments (the law). We reasonable believe Jesus kept the law as a Jew. I ask what is true?

and continue with:

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Please take note of the bolded. How does a person enter? I read through the Door (Jesus). Who and what came before Jesus? And what are they? Least you say Jesus came before the ten commandments because He gave them I quote:

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Back to John 10. Who do the sheep listen to and hear? I read Jesus. I don't read Moses and the law which came before Jesus.

Who is the thief and the thieves and robbers? Who do they seek to destroy?

I ask you which is true when it comes to salvation. Is it true that we can have eternal life by keeping the the ten commandments?

Jesus said: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus didn't say keep the law or some portion of it.

What an odd statement to make

Not if a person reads and believes the Bible.

I find your logic "illusive" just then

I understand I don't agree with your logic.

True your "Jesus now being the law" ignores the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels - for example in Matthew 19.

It has been pointed out to you, your idea takes Matthew 19 out of context and is contrary to even the law, Psalms and prophets. Not a single one of them refers to eternal life. Not a single one of them says anyone keeps the law. It's also found the Israelites even confess they agreed to a curse, the covenant law in Nehemiaih. Is it me only who disagrees with you or does God's Word also disagree with you? I've John 3 in mind. Jesus nor John say anything about the law to possess eternal life. The chapter is in full compliance with chapters 5, 10 and 15. I left out 14 because you twist it so badly.

I lot of people will agree that it was not right to "take God's name in vain" in Eden and still is not right to do that.

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

This is exactly what I mean twist. The word of both are different Speakers which mean different sets of commandments. In 1 John 5 you have the pronouns misaligned causing trouble for many. I used to be one of them.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

None of these are obligations of man(kind). Romans 13 doesn't speak of them as duty (obligation). You've simply divorced texts from their context. Jesus didn't contradict the law, Psalms, and prophets. They say no one keeps the law, all are wicked. There's no redemption from sin by the law.

assuming you accept the Bible as the Word of God - I am curious - when you quote the Word of God on the "details" -- what exactly does God's Word say the Sabbath Commandment is in your view?

Must it "exclude" Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 in your view?

If I were obligated to the law I'd accept you view. The NT doesn't require the keeping of the law for salvation. You do though. Jesus is my sabbath rest per His invitation in Matthew 11:28-30. Jesus extended this invitation to those already keeping the 7th day sabbath. God swore they would never enter His sabbath rest. The 7th day sabbath isn't God's rest. It's a shadow of the reality we can have in Jesus for those who accept.

 

[listed]

All that you have demonstrated is that the Bible does not answer many questions, not the least of which, as you have clearly shown, is whether or not God instituted the Sabbath prior to Sinai.

He will only point you to Exodus 16. But he can't prove anything prior even with Genesis 2.

 

[bbbbbbb]

He will only point you to Exodus 16. But he can't prove anything prior even with Genesis 2.

Yes, he is very good at producing a lot of smoke, but no light.

 

[prodromos]

Until you read Exodus 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3 where we are told that the Genesis 2:1-3 details "alone" make the Sabbath Holy

Yet it is not revealed to mankind until the Exodus, and then only to the Jews.

 

[BobRyan]

That's it, I'm not 'standing on simple math', see. I am standing on John 1:10,11; 17,18, Jesus Christ now being the Law of God.

A lot of people will agree that it was not right to "take God's name in vain" in Eden and still is not right to do that.

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

I'll start with:
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Please note Jesus said to keep His commandments. Jesus didn't say keep My Father's commandments

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandment of God"
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3


John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"