Show me someone who claims to not willfully sin and I’ll show you a willful liar.

[Bible Highlighter]

Yeah, it always good to learn how to say more, with less... I could ask you the same about your many words...

Yet, God's Word says a lot. Jesus says a lot.

He didn't... really...? Is not all of it in his book...?

I was referring to the Pharisees at that time and not believers today. Jesus did not reveal all truth to the PHARISEES clearly. He did not pick them up by the throat with an invisible hand and say, "Listen to me, I am God." Jesus told them, "Ye are gods." as a means of deflection to protect His mission.

Jesus never used a "play on words", Just different approaches and "literary techniques", at the most, maybe, and never used it to deliberately withhold or hide the truth from someone, or to manipulate...? In order to...? What...?

So are you saying that Jesus did not mean to say that He was God to the pharisees and that He was exclusively saying that He was a King only to them in that instance?

What were you thinking by not bringing it up when he said it...?

My thoughts at that time was not to hold anything back from him in regards to Paul because he already mentioned Paul in regards to faith, hope, and love. He mentioned BOTH Paul and James as saying that they referenced faith, hope, and love. So I did not need to correct him in regards to Paul saying that. He got that part right. The part he got wrong was that he said James talked about faith, hope, and love together.

What? I didn't confuse James for Paul, look...?

You corrected me in the fact that Paul said those words when I was talking about James. Please go back and read what I wrote. Nowhere did I reference Paul. I was talking about James. Then you came in and tried to act like I was talking about Paul when I was not talking about Paul.

This is pointless, I'm not gonna explain myself, you've got a brain after all, maybe one day you'll try it on and start using it maybe...? (sorry)

I can say the same to you, but insults are not becoming of the saints.

God Bless!

May God bless you, as well.
I hope you see where I am coming from instead of taking everything that I have said the wrong way.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Saying that I am wrong does not really mean anything without any Scriptural evidence to back up what you are saying. You have to explain what Romans 7:6 and Romans 8:3-4 are really saying in light of Romans 7:14-24.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Saying that I am wrong does not really mean anything without any Scriptural evidence to back up what you are saying. You have to explain what Romans 7:6 and Romans 8:3-4 are really saying in light of Romans 7:14-24.

"For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Romans 7:19

 

[Neogaia777]

Yet, God's Word says a lot. Jesus says a lot.



I was referring to the Pharisees at that time and not believers today. Jesus did not reveal all truth to the PHARISEES clearly. He did not pick them up by the throat with an invisible hand and say, "Listen to me, I am God." Jesus told them, "Ye are gods." as a means of deflection to protect His mission.



So are you saying that Jesus did not mean to say that He was God to the pharisees and that He was exclusively saying that He was a King only to them in that instance?



My thoughts at that time was not to hold anything back from him in regards to Paul because he already mentioned Paul in regards to faith, hope, and love. He mentioned BOTH Paul and James as saying that they referenced faith, hope, and love. So I did not need to correct him in regards to Paul saying that. He got that part right. The part he got wrong was that he said James talked about faith, hope, and love together.



You corrected me in the fact that Paul said those words when I was talking about James. Please go back and read what I wrote. Nowhere did I reference Paul. I was talking about James. Then you came in and tried to act like I was talking about Paul when I was not talking about Paul.



I can say the same to you, but insults are not becoming of the saints.



May God bless you, as well.
I hope you see where I am coming from instead of taking everything that I have said the wrong way.

Look your dodging the fact that, in my book, you just sinned in your reply to him, and Adamantly refuting that... Your dodging the fact that you deliberately, cause I know you chose to, in your head), you deliberately did not tell him where the scripture was, that he was trying to get at, but chose something else... some other kind of response other than the right one that was not (a) sinful (one), "Instead" for only God knows what? (reason,purpose,end) (garuantee it's not (a) good (one))...?

You sinned, yet you say you did not...

Why am I trying to point out sin to you? well, for one, to help you, but for another cause you claim to have no sin and not sin, and I just...? Hypocrisy gets on my nerves... Sorry...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Look your dodging the fact that, in my book, you just sinned in your reply to him, and Adamantly refuting that... Your dodging the fact that you deliberately, cause I know you chose to, in your head), you deliberately did not tell him where the scripture was, that he was trying to get at, but chose something else... some other kind of response other than the right one that was not (a) sinful (one), "Instead" for only God knows what? (reason,purpose,end) (garuantee it's not (a) good (one))...?

You sinned, yet you say you did not...

Why am I trying to point out sin to you? well, for one, to help you, but for another cause you claim to have no sin and not sin, and I just...? Hypocrisy gets on my nerves... Sorry...

Well, you are changing the facts around to see something that is not there and you are still falsely accusing me. How so?

Fact Check #1. Grip Docility said, I quote:

“Faith, Hope and Love...

James makes this abundantly clear and Paul brings it home.”​

When Grip Docility said that “Paul brings it home” he is talking about faith, love, and hope in 1 Corinthians 13. So there is no need for me to correct him on this point. He got this part correct. See post #176.

Fact Check #2. I told Grip Docility that James did mention anything about faith, hope, and love. See post #180.

Fact Check #3. You tell me that Paul talked about faith, love, and hope (See post #184). Yet, Grip Docility already mentioned this in post #176.

Fact Check #4. You start accusing me of things that don’t exist in your other posts to me. See your subsequent post #’s to me.

Please. Re-read the post numbers that I have provided within this post so you may understand the facts please.

 

[Grip Docility]

Well, I am sorry. I am not buying that. You replied to me and not him. Unless you responded to me by accident or something. By your replying to me, you were suggesting that I did not know what Paul said. I said that nowhere does James talk about faith, hope, and love together to our friend here. You did not catch that little detail and you tried to enlighten me as to what Paul said (Which is not the person who I was referring to).



This statement makes no sense. Please clarify.



I have been for the past several posts now trying to help show him many verses so far in correction of what he has stated with Scripture erroneously. So far, he does not want to hear it. He appears to not deal well with long posts. So I decided to shorten my posts for him a little (to help him out).

In James... the same 1st Corinthians 13 principles are there. The “poor” man (not speaking of carnal money) is to be treated exactly as “the rich man”.

The entire book states faith without “Love” (AKA... “Works”) is Dead. Paul makes the identical statement. If I have not Love... I am no thing.

Epistles and books are to be taken in totality and Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Obedience to the Law doesn’t save...

But... Jesus does.

We Fail and are hopeless!

He... Alone... is our hope!

Our carnal righteousness is as filthy rags!

 

[Grip Docility]

Well, you are changing the facts around to see something that is not there and you are still falsely accusing me. How so?

Fact Check #1. Grip Docility said, I quote:

“Faith, Hope and Love...

James makes this abundantly clear and Paul brings it home.”​

When Grip Docility said that “Paul brings it home” he is talking about faith, love, and hope in 1 Corinthians 13. So there is no need for me to correct him on this point. He got this part correct. See post #176.

Fact Check #2. I told Grip Docility that James did mention anything about faith, hope, and love. See post #180.

Fact Check #3. You tell me that Paul talked about faith, love, and hope (See post #184). Yet, Grip Docility already mentioned this post #176.

Fact Check #4. You start accusing me of things that don’t exist in your other posts to me. See your subsequent post #’s to me.

Please. Re-read the post numbers that I have provided within this post so you may understand the facts please.

James 2:10... break one Law... you break them all. No Hope! What does that leave? Jesus... (Hope). Jesus expounded that even the inclination of sin in the heart is breaking the Law! There’s 613 Mitzvah!

This isn’t rocket science and you ain’t without sin!

Look at what all 613 Mitzvahs entail! We are condemned!

Jesus is our only hope and He is the hope of ALL... Not just “Some”.

Faith... “Faith without pure religion”... do some textual leg work for crying out loud!

 

[Grip Docility]

Also, the OP is flawed. He is trying to borrow from Morality (i.e. Lying is wrong) to make his case for Immorality (i.e. Everyone sins - including the righteous). The OP is saying that all men sin and that anyone says they do not sin are lying. If this is the case, is Jesus and the 144,000 liars then? Surely not. Also, what verse or passage actually says what the OP says? None than I can think of.

Dude! The almighty is straight Zachariah 14 from the Acts 1 for the symbolic number of the “144K”.

And yes! You have to read them for yourself.

I’ll drop a hint..,

“Mount called Oliviet”

 

[Grip Docility]

@Jason0047 ... can’t we just hug this out and agree to disagree?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Romans 7:19

Again, in Romans 7:14-24, Paul recounts his past experience in struggling to keep the Law as a Pharisee. It's why he follows up with the question: "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?" In Romans 7:14, Paul says he is carnal and sold under sin and yet in Romans 8:2 he says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is speaking from two different perspectives. Again, Romans 7:1-6 sets the theme for the whole chapter in letting us know which Law Paul is primarily referring to here. Romans 7:1 says he speaks to them that know the Law. Which Law? The New Covenant Law? Well, such a law was still being formed with the writings of the New Testament and were not complete yet. So Paul here must be referring to the Old Law. Think my friend.

 

[Grip Docility]

Again, in Romans 7:14-24, Paul recounts his past experience in struggling to keep the Law as a Pharisee. It's why he follows up with the question: "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?" In Romans 7:14, Paul says he is carnal and sold under sin and yet in Romans 8:2 he says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is speaking from two different perspectives. Again, Romans 7:1-6 sets the theme for the whole chapter in letting us know which Law Paul is primarily referring to here. Romans 7:1 says he speaks to them that know the Law. Which Law? The New Covenant Law? Well, such a law was still being formed with the writings of the New Testament and were not complete yet. So Paul here must be referring to the Old Law. Think my friend.

Hmmmmm...

You seem to be “adjusting” context to fit your view.

I still Love you Jason0047

 

[Grip Docility]

Saying that I am wrong does not really mean anything without any Scriptural evidence to back up what you are saying. You have to explain what Romans 7:6 and Romans 8:3-4 are really saying in light of Romans 7:14-24.

In light... men see their deeds.

“This, then, is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil”

 

[Gideons300]

James 2:10... break one Law... you break them all. No Hope! What does that leave? Jesus... (Hope). Jesus expounded that even the inclination of sin in the heart is breaking the Law! There’s 613 Mitzvah!

This isn’t rocket science and you ain’t without sin!

Look at what all 613 Mitzvahs entail! We are condemned!

Jesus is our only hope and He is the hope of ALL... Not just “Some”.

Faith... “Faith without pure religion”... do some textual leg work for crying out loud!

This entire post is not in any way glorifying to our Lord. Has one person posting here changed their mind or tried to understand where the other is coming from? It has become a tit-for-tat attempt to put down the other. Love is not ruling the words here, but flesh. Can we truly blame the world for not wanting what we have to offer?

Until we can admit that despite our neatly aligned doctrines and the belief that our understanding is the correct one and those of the opposing view are plain stupid, is, ultimately, not spoken in either humility or Christ’s love, all the world will hear is clanging cymbals.

Guys, if our beliefs are not displayed and backed up by Christ’s nature revealing itself in how we treat one another, arguments like this are not just pointless, but destructive to the cause we say we represent.

I pray we begin to do as we have been exhorted to do by the word of God and love one another with a pure heart fervently. Until that is more important to us than being “right”, we will continue on running religious laps as the world continues to avoid our offerings because of our hypocrisy.

God has told us in Ezekiel 36 that the heathen will know that He is the Lord when He shall be sanctified in us before their very eyes. May our faithful God bring that to pass in each one of our hearts.

Blessings,

Gids

 

[Grip Docility]

This entire post is not in any way glorifying to our Lord. Has one person posting here changed their mind or tried to understand where the other is coming from? It has become a tit-for-tat attempt to put down the other. Love is not ruling the words here, but flesh. Can we truly blame the world for not wanting what we have to offer?

Until we can admit that despite our neatly aligned doctrines and the belief that our understanding is the correct one and those of the opposing view are plain stupid, is, ultimately, not spoken in either humility or Christ’s love, all the world will hear is clanging cymbals.

Guys, if our beliefs are not displayed and backed up by Christ’s nature revealing itself in how we treat one another, arguments like this are not just pointless, but destructive to the cause we say we represent.

I pray we begin to do as we have been exhorted to do by the word of God and love one another with a pure heart fervently. Until that is more important to us than being “right”, we will continue on running religious laps as the world continues to avoid our offerings because of our hypocrisy.

God has told us in Ezekiel 36 that the heathen will know that He is the Lord when He shall be sanctified in us before their very eyes. May our faithful God bring that to pass in each one of our hearts.

Blessings,

Gids

And... how is saying “Jesus is our only hope” not glorifying Jesus?

Spoiler

James 2:10... break one Law... you break them all. No Hope! What does that leave? Jesus... (Hope). Jesus expounded that even the inclination of sin in the heart is breaking the Law! There’s 613 Mitzvah!

This isn’t rocket science and you ain’t without sin!

Look at what all 613 Mitzvahs entail! We are condemned!

Jesus is our only hope and He is the hope of ALL... Not just “Some”.

Faith... “Faith without pure religion”... do some textual leg work for crying out loud!

 

[Gideons300]

And... how is saying “Jesus is our only hope” not glorifying Jesus?

If you do not see that posters from both sides truly believe this, nothing I say will help. We are called to, with lowliness of mind, lead others to the truth not just by our words, or our great wisdom and understanding, but by how we treat those who may disagree with us.

God does not need us to “defend Him”. He needs us to display Him.

In love,

Gideon

 

[Grip Docility]

If you do not see that posters from both sides truly believe this, nothing I say will help. We are called to, with lowliness of mind, lead others to the truth not just by our words, or our great wisdom and understanding, but by how we treat those who may disagree with us.

God does not need us to “defend Him”. He needs us to display Him.

In love,

Gideon

I’m on record as saying faith without “Love” is dead...

If you “Believe” emulate/display Jesus means be Sinless as He is Sinless, then why did He even need to become the “second Adam”?

 

[Gideons300]

I’m on record as saying faith without “Love” is dead...

If you “Believe” emulate/display Jesus means be Sinless as He is Sinless, then why did He even need to become the “second Adam”?

I will avoid the pull to wade into the maelstrom here, LOL. If eleven pages of posts have not made either side retreat into a corner and lick their wounds, nothing I can add will benefit.

Brother, I am sure both sides debating here will be glad to go on record saying that faith without love is dead. Now, all we have to do is figure out how to believe it so strongly that we treat each other other with gentleness, kindness, meekness and respect, even if we disagree with them.

Unless we want to declare the other side not Christian at all, we are commanded to be patient and kind, humble and esteem others more than ourselves. It does not mean we must abandon our belief. But God has clearly spoken. How can we say we love God whom we have not seen if we cannot love him who is begotten by Him? In a nutshell, the answer is.... we can’t. Well, we can, lol, but we would be fooling ourselves.

Surely, each side in this debate must admit that there are scriptures that very clearly seem to contradict our take on things. I would list a few backing up each side’s views, but at present, neather is willing to admit there are seeming contradictions with their ‘absolutely true” opinion.

We know there is no real contradiction in the Word, so it would seem to me that instead of each trying to outshout, wear down or ridicule the other, it would be better to set our sights on coming to a revelation of how both sides of the scriptural arguments can be true at the same time, and.... in the meantime... loving those who strongly believe differently, amen?

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Phil 1:21]

Hmmmmm...

You seem to be “adjusting” context to fit your view.

Yep!

 

[Grip Docility]

I will avoid the pull to wade into the maelstrom here, LOL. If eleven pages of posts have not made either side retreat into a corner and lick their wounds, nothing I can add will benefit.

Brother, I am sure both sides debating here will be glad to go on record saying that faith without love is dead. Now, all we have to do is figure out how to believe it so strongly that we treat each other other with gentleness, kindness, meekness and respect, even if we disagree with them.

Unless we want to declare the other side not Christian at all, we are commanded to be patient and kind, humble and esteem others more than ourselves. It does not mean we must abandon our belief. But God has clearly spoken. How can we say we love God whom we have not seen if we cannot love him who is begotten by Him? In a nutshell, the answer is.... we can’t. Well, we can, lol, but we would be fooling ourselves.

Surely, each side in this debate must admit that there are scriptures that very clearly seem to contradict our take on things. I would list a few backing up each side’s views, but at present, neather is willing to admit there are seeming contradictions with their ‘absolutely true” opinion.

We know there is no real contradiction in the Word, so it would seem to me that instead of each trying to outshout, wear down or ridicule the other, it would be better to set our sights on coming to a revelation of how both sides of the scriptural arguments can be true at the same time, and.... in the meantime... loving those who strongly believe differently, amen?

Blessings,

Gideon

Pull?

Up isn’t down and weighing in is a thing. You have a “side” in this... as you believe a person other than Jesus can be Sinless per earlier posts.

For saying you prefer a neutral “no say”... unilateral position in this, you’re sure saying a bunch.

You are being coy!

 

[Gideons300]

Pull?

Up isn’t down and weighing in is a thing. You have a “side” in this... as you believe a person other than Jesus can be Sinless per earlier posts.

For saying you prefer a neutral “no say”... unilateral position in this, you’re sure saying a bunch.

You are being coy!

I did not say sinless, but kept by God from giving into the temptation. There is a big difference. One is impossible, as I clearly said, one is promised.

You seem bent on trying to continue the battle against brothers in Christ. I wanted to simply remind all here that treating others as we would treat Christ is the real test of whether one has truth or whether one is possessed by it.

Blessings,

Gideon