Show me someone who claims to not willfully sin and I’ll show you a willful liar.

[Grip Docility]

To correct others in love is not casting stones. Casting stones would be condemning people for all eternity as if they had no hope whatsoever.

Anyways, please realize that Scripture teaches us that there are those who save with fear? (See Jude 1:23). How does this truth in God's Word fit in your belief?



Loving your neighbor is tied to keeping the Moral Law (See Romans 13:8-10).



Forgiveness is based upon asking Jesus for forgiveness of sin and believing that He died on the cross for our sin and that He was risen from the grave on our behalf. However, forgiveness also includes that one intends to forsake their sin as a part of feeling sorry over their sin. If one is not planning on stopping to sin in this life, then they are not really sorry about their sin. For Judas was grieved over his sin, but he did not have a Godly sorrow by taking it to God and then forsaking his sin. Instead, he committed suicide. He had a worldly sorrow and not a godly sorrow (See 2 Corinthians 7:10).



We have to make sure that we are putting our hope in what God's Word actually says and not what we would prefer it to say.

Faith, Hope and Love...

James makes this abundantly clear and Paul brings it home.

Where does James talk about faith, hope, and love all together?​

The entire Epistle.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Where does James talk about faith, hope, and love all together?

The entire Epistle.

No. Please show me where specifically he uses the words "faith, hope, and love" together. As far as I know, the word "hope" does not appear in James.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I appreciate your concern, but I won’t be building on my filthy sand any day soon. My hope is in the Rock.

Perhaps this spoken word on the matter?

Matthew 7:26-27 says,

26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

In other words, one has to do what Jesus says otherwise they are likened to a foolish man who built a house upon the sand that will fall greatly during a storm. So I fail to see how your belief lines up with what this piece of Scripture says.

 

[Neogaia777]

No. Please show me where specifically he uses the words "faith, hope, and love" together. As far as I know, the word "hope" does not appear in James.

1 Corinthians 13:13

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Corinthians 13:13

Yes, I am aware that Paul talks about faith, hope, and love in 1 Corinthians 13. Most Christians know of this chapter. However, our friend here was talking about both James and Paul. I asked him where does JAMES talk about faith, hope, and love. As far as I know, the word "hope" does not even appear in James.

See these search results for the word "hope" here at BlueLetterBible.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes, I am aware that Paul talks about faith, hope, and love in 1 Corinthians 13. Most Christians know of this chapter. However, our friend here was talking about both James and Paul. I asked him where does JAMES talk about faith, hope, and love. As far as I know, the word "hope" does not even appear in James.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

I only brought it up, cause I thought he was confusing the books and writers, and may want to know where that was that he was talking about...

But, yeah, I figured you probably knew, how come you didn't help him then...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I only brought it up, cause I thought he was confusing the books and writers,

Well, I am sorry. I am not buying that. You replied to me and not him. Unless you responded to me by accident or something. By your replying to me, you were suggesting that I did not know what Paul said. I said that nowhere does James talk about faith, hope, and love together to our friend here. You did not catch that little detail and you tried to enlighten me as to what Paul said (Which is not the person who I was referring to).

and may want to know where that was that he was talking about...

This statement makes no sense. Please clarify.

But, yeah, I figured you probably knew, how come you didn't help him then...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

I have been for the past several posts now trying to help show him many verses so far in correction of what he has stated with Scripture erroneously. So far, he does not want to hear it. He appears to not deal well with long posts. So I decided to shorten my posts for him a little (to help him out).

 

[Phil 1:21]

Show me someone who claims to not willfully sin and I’ll show you a willful liar.

Yep!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yep!

Is it possible to stop sinning for 5 seconds?
How about 5 minutes?
How about 5 hours?
Logic dictates that if one can stop sinning for a certain period of a short amount of time, then they can continue to do so for a longer period of time.

Also, what Revelation 21:8 that says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire?
Is everyone doomed?
Does John mention another group of liars who are saved from the Lake of Fire?

 

[Phil 1:21]

Romans 7:15-19

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, the OP is flawed. He is trying to borrow from Morality (i.e. Lying is wrong) to make his case for Immorality (i.e. Everyone sins - including the righteous). The OP is saying that all men sin and that anyone says they do not sin are lying. If this is the case, is Jesus and the 144,000 liars then? Surely not. Also, what verse or passage actually says what the OP says? None than I can think of.

 

[Neogaia777]

Well, I am sorry. I am not buying that. You replied to me and not him. Unless you responded to me by accident or something. By your replying to me, you were suggesting that I did not know what Paul said. I said that nowhere does James talk about faith, hope, and love together to our friend here. You did not catch that little detail and you tried to enlighten me as to what Paul said (Which is not the person who I was referring to).



This statement makes no sense. Please clarify.



I have been for the past several posts now trying to help show him many verses so far in correction of what he has stated with Scripture erroneously. So far, he does not want to hear it. He appears to not deal well with long posts. So I decided to shorten my posts for him a little (to help him out).

Well, your the one who didn't help him and deceived him in order to keep an upper hand position of power over him, and to win through deception, instead of helping him and was wondering, why you didn't and just why you did that and responded and replied that way, in the way you did... So, I replied to you...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 7:15-19

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

The context of Paul's struggle is mentioned in verse 3 within Romans 8.

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:" (Romans 8:3).

Did you catch that?

Paul's mention of his struggle in Romans 7:14-24 is referenced in Romans 8:3 when he says, "What the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son.... condemned sin in the flesh." Paul discovered first hand what the Law could not do and that it was weak through the flesh in Romans 7:14-24. God sent his own Son and condemned sin the flesh. Which Law existed when Jesus condemned sin in the flesh upon the cross? Was it the Old Covenant Law or the New Covenant Law? Surely it was the Old Law because the commands from Christ's followers were not given yet. Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's commandments.

"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Corinthians 14:37).

So there is New Covenant Laws or Commands.

Anyways, let's keep reading.

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

Flesh here is talking about sin. They that are carnal or in the flesh (sin) cannot please God. For they that are after the flesh (carnal) do mind the things of the flesh (sinful things). In any event, verse 4 says that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us who not after the flesh (sin or ourselves) but after the Spirit. What is the righteousness (righteous aspect or part) of the Law? It is loving one's neighbor as their self (i.e. the Moral Law - See Romans 13:8-10). What this tells us is that there is (a) Is Law still under the New Covenant (b) Jesus condemned sin on the cross which the Old Law could not accomplish. According to Romans 8:3, trying to keep the Old Law alone (without Jesus) made one weak in the flesh. But with Jesus, we can overcome sin.

This is why Romans 13:14 says,
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, your the one who didn't help him and deceived him in order to keep an upper hand position of power over him, and to win through deception, instead of helping him and was wondering, why you didn't and just why you did that and responded and replied that way, in the way you did... So, I replied to you...

As I said, I was trying to keep my posts shorter with him because my longer posts were not being responded to fully. It was not because I desired to keep something from him or hold some kind of power over him. If such was the case, then I would not have revealed detailed Scriptures of correction with him prior. So your accusation is simply false and misguided (and not based upon any real facts). Also, can you read people's minds? Do you know what was in my heart? Surely not; For only God can read people's minds and thoughts.

Besides, Jesus did not reveal all truth to people. He told certain people not to tell anyone of the miracles he did. He also did not openly announce to all people that He was God and make an open show of His power to everyone. In fact, Jesus even used misdirection so as to protect His mission. He said to the Pharisees who wanted to kill him (after He claimed to be God) that "Ye are gods" from the OT Scriptures. Granted, Jesus was not claiming that we are divine or anything silly like that. His words had several purposes. Jesus was claiming to be God and yet also to be a king. Christ was also trying to protect His mission in going to the cross for us, as well.

Anyways, my not sharing all truth with our fellow poster friend here does not mean that I was being deceptive with him. If such were the case, then you would have to accuse Jesus of being deceptive with the Pharisees for using a play on words and for not revealing all truth so as to protect His mission to save us.

As for your reply to me: You misunderstood what I said and you thought I was talking about Paul when I was actually talking about James.

 

[Phil 1:21]

"For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Romans 7:19

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Indeed...

And for a fact... it frustrates Grace every time the System of obedience is rebuilt and people call God’s Love for humanity “while” we were/are yet sinners... a license to Sin!

There’s only one “Man” that could and “Does” The Will of God perpetually and He just happens to be THE SON of God... AKA... God the Son...

When the declaration gets mixed up with our body of death... “All hell breaks loose”.

@@

Nobody is accusing you that you want to sin up a storm. But you do have to realize that there are Eternal Security Proponents that I have talked with that do believe that they can sin as much as they like and be saved because they have a belief on Jesus. The problem I see (with the belief being described in this particular thread so far) is that that we cannot stop sinning in this life (on occasion and we are sickened by sin) and yet we are still saved. However, this is not how it is supposed to be. Paul says how can we who are dead to sin live any longer therein? Paul is saying that we are not to live in any kind of sin anymore. For he says sin shall not have dominion over you. Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin. Jesus said this to the Pharisees. So Jesus was not giving them a compliment or anything. He was telling them that their life is not how it should be.

How are you doing with the sins of omission that no legalist will discuss? Or the 613 commandments you break every time you break one of them. Can’t you see how God keeps raising the bar?Theres a reason for that! He’s trying to show the impossibility of Law-keeping for Salvation or maintaining ones salvation.Are you guys too proud to admit you are helpless and your only hope is God’s Grace to save you and keep you saved? “Grace” is the one word you seldom see in all their postings.The unmerited favor that is basic to our Salvation.I’m like Paul in this regard—- I do not hold back God’s Grace.The other crowd pays lip-service to Grace because they have to.....it’s mentioned too many times to ignore it....but it ain’t in their hearts.i wonder what “ they” see when they look in the mirror—— a wretched , sinner saved by grace or somebody that ain’t that bad because they do a pretty good job of keeping the law.i would be interested to know what They see......would one of you guys share?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Romans 7:19

Yes, Paul said this when he was a Pharisee who was under the Law. We know this for several reasons by looking at the surrounding context. Romans 8:3 says that what the law could not do that it is weak through the flesh, God sent His Son and condemned sin in the flesh. What Law existed then? The Old Law or the New Law? The Old Law (of course). Also, Romans 7:6 says we are to serve in newness of Spirit and not in the Oldness of the Letter. What is the Oldness of the Letter? Is it the Old Law or the New Law? It is the Old Law (of course). So Paul was recounting his experience as a Pharisee who struggled to keep the Old Law in Romans 7:14-24.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How are you doing with the sins of omission that no legalist will discuss? Or the 613 commandments you break every time you break one of them. Can’t you see how God keeps raising the bar?Theres a reason for that! He’s trying to show the impossibility of Law-keeping for Salvation or maintaining ones salvation.Are you guys too proud to admit you are helpless and your only hope is God’s Grace to save you and keep you saved? “Grace” is the one word you seldom see in all their postings.The unmerited favor that is basic to our Salvation.I’m like Paul in this regard—- I do not hold back God’s Grace.The other crowd pays lip-service to Grace because they have to.....it’s mentioned too many times to ignore it....but it ain’t in their hearts.i wonder what “ they” see when they look in the mirror—— a wretched , sinner saved by grace or somebody that ain’t that bad because they do a pretty good job of keeping the law.i would be interested to know what They see......would one of you guys share?

The 613 commandments as a whole or as a package deal are no longer in effect. Those 613 commands were given exclusively to Moses and Israel. Unless of course you think we still need to sacrifice animals, be circumcised, eat only clean animals, hate our enemies, keep the Sabbaths, etc.

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Do you believe that?

Note: Please keep in mind that God has Eternal Moral Laws for man after the fall. These moral laws have never changed and they will always exist. These laws would be: Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, etc (Which is the same as saying to "Love your neighbor" - See Romans 13:8-10). Anyways, we are under a New Covenant with New Commands. The Old is no more.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Yes, Paul said this when he was a Pharisee who was under the Law.

 

[Neogaia777]

As I said, I was trying to keep my posts shorter with him because my longer posts were not being responded to fully.

Yeah, it always good to learn how to say more, with less...

Also, can you read people's minds? Do you know what was in my heart? Surely not; For only God can read people's minds and thoughts.

I could ask you the same about your many words...

Besides, Jesus did not reveal all truth to people.

He didn't... really...? Is not all of it in his book...?

then you would have to accuse Jesus of being deceptive with the Pharisees for using a play on words and for not revealing all truth so as to protect His mission to save us.

Jesus never used a "play on words", Just different approaches and "literary techniques", at the most, maybe, and never used it to deliberately withhold or hide the truth from someone, or to manipulate...? In order to...? What...?

What were you thinking by not bringing it up when he said it...?

As for your reply to me: You misunderstood what I said and you thought I was talking about Paul when I was actually talking about James.

What? I didn't confuse James for Paul, look...? This is pointless, I'm not gonna explain myself, you've got a brain after all, maybe one day you'll try it on and start using it maybe...? (sorry)

God Bless!