All Israel is saved

[Buzz_B]

You will not even address this verse talk about being a full vessel full of preconceived bias. Hate that man sin has nothing to do with God being Sovereign over all things to include sin. Sin is but a tool in the masters hands so is death. Notice the vessel was marred by the potter.

Jeremiah 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the LORD. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
11 “Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD: “Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.”’”
12 And they said, “That is hopeless! So we will walk according to our own plans, and we will every one obey the dictates of his evil heart.”
13 Therefore thus says the LORD:


“ Ask now among the Gentiles,
Who has heard such things?
The virgin of Israel has done a very horrible thing.
14 Will a man leave the snow water of Lebanon,
Which comes from the rock of the field?
Will the cold flowing waters be forsaken for strange waters?
15 “ Because My people have forgotten Me,
They have burned incense to worthless idols.
And they have caused themselves to stumble in their ways,
From the ancient paths,
To walk in pathways and not on a highway,
16 To make their land desolate and a perpetual hissing;
Everyone who passes by it will be astonished
And shake his head.
17 I will scatter them as with an east wind before the enemy;
I will show them[a] the back and not the face
In the day of their calamity.”
Jeremiah Persecuted

18 Then they said, “Come and let us devise plans against Jeremiah; for the law shall not perish from the priest, nor counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophet. Come and let us attack him with the tongue, and let us not give heed to any of his words.”
19 Give heed to me, O LORD,
And listen to the voice of those who contend with me!
20 Shall evil be repaid for good?
For they have dug a pit for my life.
Remember that I stood before You
To speak good for them,
To turn away Your wrath from them.
21 Therefore deliver up their children to the famine,
And pour out their blood
By the force of the sword;
Let their wives become widows
And bereaved of their children.
Let their men be put to death,
Their young men be slain
By the sword in battle.
22 Let a cry be heard from their houses,
When You bring a troop suddenly upon them;
For they have dug a pit to take me,
And hidden snares for my feet.
23 Yet, LORD, You know all their counsel
Which is against me, to slay me.
Provide no atonement for their iniquity,
Nor blot out their sin from Your sight;
But let them be overthrown before You.
Deal thus with them
In the time of Your anger.

I am not claiming it Ps 90 declares it.

There is the only citation you gave to talk about.

And now you have gone back to flooding as if it will prove you right.

You cannot see that the citations you make do not support you. You have become addicted to making yourself feel good by means of your false thinking and now you are caught like an addict gets caught.

I have faith that all I need do is lay the truth out there and then, if it is to ever be so, it will be there for you to one day understand.

I am in your corner.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

There is the only citation you gave to talk about.

And now you have gone back to flooding as if it will prove you right.

You cannot see that the citations you make do not support you. You have become addicted to making yourself feel good by means of your false thinking and now you are caught like an addict gets caught.

I have faith that all I need do is lay the truth out there and then, if it is to ever be so, it will be there for you to one day understand.

I am in your corner.

Its called revelation not tradition. You see God's Word as the Bible without the spirit of revelation or the letter that killeth. You need to have some long dead teacher who interpreted the Bible probably in the dark ages or shortly after and that is all there is. You will not even address the Psalm 90 or the fact that the lamb was slain before there was a sinner. These are scriptural facts that do not conform to your worn out old wine skin. The new wine or revelation is better. yesterdays manna stinks.

Do you know what manna is spiritual speaking? I know you have no clue what a baby goat is from your posting.

 

[Buzz_B]

Its called revelation not tradition. You see God's Word as the Bible without the spirit of revelation or the letter that killeth. You need to have some long dead teacher who interpreted the Bible probably in the dark ages or shortly after and that is all there is. You will not even address the Psalm 90 or the fact that the lamb was slain before there was a sinner. These are scriptural facts that do not conform to your worn out old wine skin. The new wine or revelation is better. yesterdays manna stinks.

Do you know what manna is spiritual speaking? I know you have no clue what a baby goat is from your posting.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you telling you that you are the one who does not understand.

If a baby goat is what you choose to believe that a true minister of Christ is that is your business.

Christ's flesh also represented that manna from heaven. It means eating of the ways of a spiritual man so that you become one flesh with a spiritually wise man; instead of through the corruption of association with evil ones and imitating of their ways eating of the corrupted flesh of evil ones so that you become one flesh with them.

You are too intelligent for your own good. You cannot see the easy to see things that are as plain as the nose on a man's face.

You have revolted and gone your way.

Deuteronomy 32:5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you telling you that you are the one who does not understand.

If a baby goat is what you choose to believe that a true minister of Christ is that is your business.

Christ's flesh also represented that manna from heaven. It means eating of the ways of a spiritual man so that you become one flesh with a spiritually wise man; instead of through the corruption of association with evil ones and imitating of their ways eating of the corrupted flesh of evil ones so that you become one flesh with them.

You are too intelligent for your own good. You cannot see the easy to see things that are as plain as the nose on a man's face.

You have revolted and gone your way.

Deuteronomy 32:5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

A baby goat is not what I or you choose to believe it is. it is what God's Word and the law of Moses as declared as an example for us who have the vision to see what god's Word says it is.


1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.


NT:5178 a tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of

yes this is true but there is also hidden manna. And yesterdays manna or tradition stinks. That is all you have is yesterdays manna. You reject the new manna daily.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

There are thousands of God's people who believe the way I do and we not swayed by the corrupt Baby-lion (spelled way for a reason) religious system that think they have the truth but all they have is the letter that killeth.

 

[Buzz_B]

There are thousands of God's people who believe the way I do and we not swayed by the corrupt Baby-lion (spelled way for a reason) religious system that think they have the truth but all they have is the letter that killeth.

A baby goat is not what I or you choose to believe it is. it is what God's Word and the law of Moses as declared as an example for us who have the vision to see what god's Word says it is.


1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.


NT:5178 a tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of

yes this is true but there is also hidden manna. And yesterdays manna or tradition stinks. That is all you have is yesterdays manna. You reject the new manna daily.

You have not said anything that is not apparent to me. It is just that your interpretation is like that yesterday's manna which stinks.

You yet interpret as feels good to your old man. The hidden manna which I do eat you cannot know of for that old manna in you by way of your old man doing much of your thinking. That new manna is just the finite details of Christlike person which is hidden yet to you.

But you are too stuck on yourself and on your own intelligence to ever come to so much as see that hidden manna let alone be able to emulate it into your self as you eat of it in Christ's flesh.

That is why thousands have set up just another antichrist form of religion.

 

[GenemZ]

There are many gifts God gives in men and it just so happens that the gift he prepared in me is to be able to deal with the more complex of men. He saw that I bear many similarities to Paul and he chose to put those similarities to use.

OK... sir. Enjoy your own world.

 

[GenemZ]

There are thousands of God's people who believe the way I do and we not swayed by the corrupt Baby-lion (spelled way for a reason) religious system that think they have the truth but all they have is the letter that killeth.

I getting to believe there is nothing productive to be found in these kind of forums. It attracts those whom most congregations would isolate and avoid.. This not Christianity.

 

[Buzz_B]

I getting to believe there is nothing productive to be found in these kind of forums. It attracts those whom most congregations would isolate and avoid.. This not Christianity.

This is a worldly format. Its rules by reason that it is a worldly format will necessarily encroach on the rights and freedoms as compared to a spiritually controlled enclosed environment. Even the moderators of such a format as this are bound to differ from each other. For that reason it is not able to be more than a watered down version of God's congregation and each different thinking group wants to think it belongs to them.

 

[Buzz_B]

genez,

Unless my memory fails me, you spoke in a post a short time back concerning the curtain being rent between the two compartments of the sanctuary, the holy compartment and the most holy compartment. You acknowledged that rent curtain represented the removal of the impediment caused by the imperfect flesh. And that was completely correct. But it stops short of the fuller picture.

What you fail to remember is that Christ's death also tore down the wall of separation between the inner and outer courtyards and that this wall also represented the division caused of the flesh.

When Paul speaks as follows, "For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor" (Galatians 2:18), he means more than just returning to our old sins. He means rebuilding that wall of separation between the inner and the outer courtyards, wherein their respective occupants, the Jews in the inner and the gentiles in the outer, each had their burden of sins. But the sins of the Jews were not so easily seen by themselves. It was far easier for them to see the sins of the gentiles.

By your failure to recognize that the then Jewish system had grown to be just another element of this world which uses law to regulate itself, and expecting that old Jewish system to be rebuilt, you rebuild that wall of separation by flesh which Christ died to tear down. And by that you fight against Christ instead of for and with him as I know you desire to do.

Do yourself a favor and revisit everything you base your beliefs on, this time being cautious to not rebuild that wall which separated the courtyards, for they are now one and you have no right to make them again two.

At Revelation 11:2 it is that one entire courtyard which is separated away from the sanctuary and given to the gentiles to trample. It would lack meaning if it were not also the part which formerly belonged to the Jews for they always have trampled the part which was their own.

Another thing you may want to bear in mind is that not all Jews had access to the curtain which separated the two sanctuary compartments. Only the priests among them had access to that curtain.

Bear these things in mind and try again.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

men.., Thank you sooo much.

1 Corin. 1:25 (Amp) [This is] because the foolish thing [that has its source in] God is wiser than men, and the weak thing [that springs] from God is stronger than men.

26For [simply] consider your own call, brethren; not many [of you were considered to be] wise according to human estimates and standards, not many influential and powerful, not many of high and noble birth.

27[No] for God selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is foolish to put the wise to shame, and what the world calls weak to put the strong to shame.

28 And God also selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is lowborn and insignificant and branded and treated with contempt, even the things that are nothing, that He might depose and bring to nothing the things that are,

29So that no mortal man should [have pretense for glorying and] boast in the presence of God.

30But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I think I figured you out, I say God is sovereign over ALL things including evil. You cannot say this because you believe in a higher power than God who controls evil and you also believe God is helpless to control or stop this higher power. But you do not want to say this but you believe it.

 

[Buzz_B]

I think I figured you out, I say God is sovereign over ALL things including evil. You cannot say this because you believe in a higher power than God who controls evil and you also believe God is helpless to control or stop this higher power. But you do not want to say this but you believe it.

You say, "I think ....."
You need to stop thinking so much then as it is confusing you. No one has said what you claim.

What was said is that yours and mine and everyone's own actions either produce evil or those actions produce good. Evil is not a creation but a consequence of ill actions.

How petty do you wish to get? Is God sovereign over your choice of time to sit down and take a dump? Or over your choice of time to stand and expectorate? Does he have to fix a specific time for everything for you? Then it is obvious he leaves you in his image to have dominion over certain things. And your choice of morals is one of those things he expects you to have dominion over. Thus it is obvious that he expects you to exercise dominion to prevent your actions from producing evil.

Get a life.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You say, "I think ....."
You need to stop thinking so much then as it is confusing you. No one has said what you claim.

What was said is that yours and mine and everyone's own actions either produce evil or those actions produce good. Evil is not a creation but a consequence of ill actions.

How petty do you wish to get? Is God sovereign over your choice of time to sit down and take a dump? Or over your choice of time to stand and expectorate? Does he have to fix a specific time for everything for you? Then it is obvious he leaves you in his image to have dominion over certain things. And your choice of morals is one of those things he expects you to have dominion over. Thus it is obvious that he expects you to exercise dominion to prevent your actions from producing evil.

Get a life.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Not petty. You ever heard of fake news? Well you have a fake belief. You are spinning this fact for you believe there is a force out there greater than God who has power over all evil and God is helpless. God is sovereign over all things and that includes all evil. In reference to a dump that petty.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

But you cannot admit you believe this. Fake belief.

 

[Buzz_B]

Not petty. You ever heard of fake news? Well you have a fake belief. You are spinning this fact for you believe there is a force out there greater than God who has power over all evil and God is helpless. God is sovereign over all things and that includes all evil. In reference to a dump that petty.

But you cannot admit you believe this. Fake belief.

OK, I get it now.

You are Donald Trump.

You should have told us so in the first place. After all, everyone excuses Donald Trump for making no sense.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

fake.

 

[Buzz_B]

fake.

Thank you.

And now let the humble servant of God that you are be directed back to my post 550. At Revelation 11:2 we see that singular courtyard (the two made one by Christ's death) separated away from the temple sanctuary which is also now, since Christ's death, one. That this courtyard is called "the holy city" proves it is that courtyard of the both the Jews and the gentiles become one.

Revelation 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

What we see at Revelation 11:1 is the measuring of the sanctuary where the priest are but John is told not to measure that courtyard which is outside that temple which now refers to just the joined sanctuary compartments. For only the sanctuary compartments are the temple of God. And it is only the priests with Christ that ever entered that sanctuary, even as shown by the old physical temple's layout and the laws of God which governed it.

Revelation 11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein."

In the Scriptures, the rebuilding of the temple always began by measuring it. Thus we see that by giving the newly made one courtyard to the nations to trample signifies that it is not God's time to rebuild it as yet. But God's focus is on rebuilding the sanctuary wherein specially chosen men (the elect) are associate priests with Christ.

God has been busy rebuilding that temple sanctuary while the courtyards wherein the churches exist he has been letting be trampled by the nations. Thus not only is it so that not all persons are God's temple, but it is also true that none of the churches we see are God's temple.

Are you following along with what this "fake", as you call him, is telling you?

The rebuilding of the courtyard does not begin until the forty and two months are expired. And that courtyard is the Israel pictured at Revelation 7:1-8 made up of both Jews and Gentiles,, that wall of separation having been torn down between their two courtyards and made one.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Thank you.

And now let the humble servant of God that you are be directed back to my post 550. At Revelation 11:2 we see that singular courtyard (the two made one by Christ's death) separated away from the temple sanctuary which is also now, since Christ's death, one. That this courtyard is called "the holy city" proves it is that courtyard of the both the Jews and the gentiles become one.

Revelation 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

What we see at Revelation 11:1 is the measuring of the sanctuary where the priest are but John is told not to measure that courtyard which is outside that temple which now refers to just the joined sanctuary compartments. For only the sanctuary compartments are the temple of God. And it is only the priests with Christ that ever entered that sanctuary, even as shown by the old physical temple's layout and the laws of God which governed it.

Revelation 11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein."

In the Scriptures, the rebuilding of the temple always began by measuring it. Thus we see that by giving the newly made one courtyard to the nations to trample signifies that it is not God's time to rebuild it as yet. But God's focus is on rebuilding the sanctuary wherein specially chosen men (the elect) are associate priests with Christ.

God has been busy rebuilding that temple sanctuary while the courtyards wherein the churches exist he has been letting be trampled by the nations. Thus not only is it so that not all persons are God's temple, but it is also true that none of the churches we see are God's temple.

Are you following along with what this "fake", as you call him, is telling you?

The rebuilding of the courtyard does not begin until the forty and two months are expired. And that courtyard is the Israel pictured at Revelation 7:1-8 made up of both Jews and Gentiles,, that wall of separation having been torn down between their two courtyards and made one.

The word fake is more of a modern term where guile would better fit this debate. So often you spin something where it it is just to deep for you to commit to. The sovereignty of God and evil is but one example. Anther is Zion and the Tabernacle of David where its ok to scratch the surface but once it gets a little deep and you find things that do not fit your bias. Spin time....Ignore time.

Proverbs 12:10 (NIV) which says "the LORD condemns a crafty man." We read similarly in Psalm 5:6: " deceitful men the LORD abhors." And finally, “Cursed is he who doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully.”


Jeremiah 48:10. Cf. Rev. 14:5: "And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."


Jesus' Example vs. Paul's Example
In Jesus was "no guile."

Jesus “left us an example, that we should follow His steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth.” (1 Peter 2:21-22)(ASV.)

What if Jesus ever spoke the words "I was crafty, and captured you with guile (deception)"? Wouldn't we think then Jesus was a sinner, and could not be of God? Wouldn't we conclude that if Jesus had truly said such a thing that Jesus would be cursed by God pursuant to Jeremiah 48:10? We would be compelled to abandon Jesus if he ever made such an outrageous statement that "I was crafty and captured you with guile / deception."

But then Paul says the same thing in 2 Cor. 12:16 which we would be revulsed if Jesus had said it, but we just accept it from Paul:

But be it so, I did not myself burden you; but, being crafty, I caught you with guile. (2 Cor. 12:16, ASV.)

A similar end-justifies the means attitude by Paul toward lying for the gospel is found here: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?” Romans 3:7 KJV.

Paul means that if "my lie" has advanced God's truth, then "my lie" is no sin. What kind of Gospel can ever be based upon a lie?

Many religions see God’s Spirit as a doctrine, a creed and have no desire to be let out side their religious idealism. It’s as if the Holy Spirit is not allowed to break any of these religious taboos or creeds or dogmas. As if some religious leader, or scholar has the power to reveal the deeps secrets of the Bible and the Spirit of truth is a joke. Something they speak about, make dogmas about claim they believe in but reject any idea that this power of God with in us can open up God’s Word and reveal something new? You see God’s Word is not new, its not old its spiritual and that Holy Spirit is the only source according to the Bible they claim to believe in that can LEAD AND GUDE US INTO ALL TRUTH.


John 16:13

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

 

[Buzz_B]

The word fake is more of a modern term where guile would better fit this debate. So often you spin something where it it is just to deep for you to commit to. The sovereignty of God and evil is but one example. Anther is Zion and the Tabernacle of David where its ok to scratch the surface but once it gets a little deep and you find things that do not fit your bias. Spin time....Ignore time.

Proverbs 12:10 (NIV) which says "the LORD condemns a crafty man." We read similarly in Psalm 5:6: " deceitful men the LORD abhors." And finally, “Cursed is he who doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully.”


Jeremiah 48:10. Cf. Rev. 14:5: "And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."


Jesus' Example vs. Paul's Example
In Jesus was "no guile."

Jesus “left us an example, that we should follow His steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth.” (1 Peter 2:21-22)(ASV.)

What if Jesus ever spoke the words "I was crafty, and captured you with guile (deception)"? Wouldn't we think then Jesus was a sinner, and could not be of God? Wouldn't we conclude that if Jesus had truly said such a thing that Jesus would be cursed by God pursuant to Jeremiah 48:10? We would be compelled to abandon Jesus if he ever made such an outrageous statement that "I was crafty and captured you with guile / deception."

But then Paul says the same thing in 2 Cor. 12:16 which we would be revulsed if Jesus had said it, but we just accept it from Paul:

But be it so, I did not myself burden you; but, being crafty, I caught you with guile. (2 Cor. 12:16, ASV.)

A similar end-justifies the means attitude by Paul toward lying for the gospel is found here: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?” Romans 3:7 KJV.

Paul means that if "my lie" has advanced God's truth, then "my lie" is no sin. What kind of Gospel can ever be based upon a lie?

Many religions see God’s Spirit as a doctrine, a creed and have no desire to be let out side their religious idealism. It’s as if the Holy Spirit is not allowed to break any of these religious taboos or creeds or dogmas. As if some religious leader, or scholar has the power to reveal the deeps secrets of the Bible and the Spirit of truth is a joke. Something they speak about, make dogmas about claim they believe in but reject any idea that this power of God with in us can open up God’s Word and reveal something new? You see God’s Word is not new, its not old its spiritual and that Holy Spirit is the only source according to the Bible they claim to believe in that can LEAD AND GUDE US INTO ALL TRUTH.


John 16:13

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

So you have an opinion which if you believe, it is your truth, IOW's it is true to only you. And that you have proven to be very good at.

The rebuilding of the courtyard does not begin until the forty and two months are expired. And that courtyard is the Israel pictured at Revelation 7:1-8 made up of both Jews and Gentiles,, that wall of separation having been torn down between their two courtyards and made one.

But we see that the temple was being measured at Revelation 11:1, which means that God's focus is on its rebuilding. And what we see at Revelation 7:1-8 is God choosing ones out of the combined courtyard called Israel (made one of both Jews and Gentiles by Christ's death) so that we know that not all of the 144,000 are ethnic Jews.

Are you following, bg?