Douggg

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Well, if that's the case, then the OP and thousands upon thousands of well-respected theologians are all "adding to the prophecy that is revealed in Revelation," because his statements reflect a commonly-held exegesis linking the two books of the Bible...
Hi pinbackbsc04, welcome to the forum.
 
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John Prewett

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so you do not consider the book of Daniel to have any relevance to current era, is that what you are saying?
That it is fulfilled therefor we do not need to understand it?

Yes. What Daniel was to ancient Israel,
the GOD-SENT Revelation is to our era (addressed explicitly to Servants of Jesus).

Are you saying that the "mark" is a cashless society?

Yes.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Yes. What Daniel was to ancient Israel,
the GOD-SENT Revelation is to our era (addressed explicitly to Servants of Jesus).



Yes.

in order to tell what the mark is you must know who or what the beast is. would you share that information with us?
 
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John Prewett

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in order to tell what the mark is you must know who or what the beast is. would you share that information with us?

The Revelation tells us what the Beast is. All you have to do is believe the Revelation.

10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
11 Concerning the beast who was, and is not, he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to destruction.
Rev 17
 
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Douggg

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Yes. What Daniel was to ancient Israel,
the GOD-SENT Revelation is to our era (addressed explicitly to Servants of Jesus).
What about Matthew 24, John, any relevancy to Revelation?
 
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Douggg

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The Revelation tells us what the Beast is. All you have to do is believe the Revelation.

10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
11 Concerning the beast who was, and is not, he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to destruction.
Rev 17
Okay, the beast is the eighth king - who is the eighth king?
 
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John Prewett

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What about Matthew 24, John, any relevancy to Revelation?

Matt 24 is about the end time of ancient Israel.
The God-sent Revelation is addressed to servants of Jesus and reveals OUR 'end time."

There are some similarities tween the two end times ....
but in order to understand the Revelation one does not need to refer back to Matt 24.
The Revelation does not direct the reader to refer back to Matt 24 or any other book.
The Revelation explains itself.
As a matter of act, regarding OUR end time, chapter 13->forward reveals all we need to know ....

EXCEPT for chapter 1:1-3 (which is crucial to believe)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show to His servants things which must soon take place.
He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
2 who bears record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy
and keep those things which are written in it, for the time is near.

 
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John Prewett

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Okay, the beast is the eighth king - who is the eighth king?

The following verses are singled out of the Revelation to make this point:
The beast is a Satan powered king [therefore a man], who has had a terrible head wound, has disappeared,
and will publicly reappear, and amaze the world.

Revelation chapter 13

13v1'....I saw a beast coming out of the sea...'
13v2'. ...dragon gave him his power...'
13V3'... .and I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed.....'
13v7'....authority over every tribe and people. ....... was given him....
13V12'...and he [beast from earth] makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life....'
Revelation chapter 17
17v3'. ..and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having 7 heads and 10 horns.....'
17v8'....the beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast

that he WAS and IS NOT and WILL COME ....'

17v11'...and the beast that was and is not, is himself also an eighth [king] and is one of the seven...'


Based on detailed, unique, visible, verifiable prophecy/Revelation fulfillment,
I assert/declare that the Vatican is the great harlot of the Revelation,
Therefore I further assert the beast is Roman Catholic.


Can you think of a world famous Roman Catholic who has had a world famous
terrible head wound under extremely mysterious circumstances?


I predict/prophecy in Jesus name that John F. Kennedy will publicly reappear,
amaze the world, take world power, and is in fact the beast of the Revelation.

This fulfillment will confirm the truth of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
This fulfillment will confirm the truth of Jesus Christ the living Lord & Savior.

KISSINGER and 666 Note there are two beasts of Revelation 13.
One from the sea.The other from the land. One is a Gentile. The other is a Jew.
English is the world's single most widespread language:


A= 1 x 6 = 6, B = 2 x 6 = 12, C = 3 x 6 = 18, D = 4 x 6 = 24, E = 5 x 6 = 30, etc.

K= 66
I= 54
S= 114
S= 114
I = 54
N= 84
G= 42
E= 30
R= 108
+ 666


Kissinger's name equates to '666' by a simple formula.
Kissinger is Jewish
Kissinger is Papal adviser and premier "world statesman'
Kissinger documented evil NWOrder leader

So: Re- Vatican, JFK, and KISSINGER The question becomes-

Would Jesus Christ allow such literal fulfillment to occur coincidentally?
I say NO, Jesus would not.


Therefore I am COMPELLED to believe that it is prophecy fulfillment in progress.
The confirmation of my contention will be the public and literal reappearance of JFK
who will take world power with Kissinger at his side.

I urge anyone to personally study and heed the entire Revelation.
Early in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, God promises to bless anyone who reads or hears the Revelation and heeds it.
'...for the time is near'...'
'....and the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast...'
wait and see....

Call on Jesus Read and HEED His Revelation!
The Lord once said, 'Surely, just as I have intended, so it has happened, and just as I have planned, so it will stand......'
Isaiah 14:24

SLINGING SEEDS

JFK: Sexual sociopath and political faker
 
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Douggg

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KISSINGER and 666 Note there are two beasts of Revelation 13.
One from the sea.The other from the land. One is a Gentile. The other is a Jew.
English is the world's single most widespread language:


A= 1 x 6 = 6, B = 2 x 6 = 12, C = 3 x 6 = 18, D = 4 x 6 = 24, E = 5 x 6 = 30, etc.

K= 66
I= 54
S= 114
S= 114
I = 54
N= 84
G= 42
E= 30
R= 108
+ 666
Kissinger, the second beast? and the 666, and mark associated with the second beast?

I thought the bible says in Revelation 14:11

14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.



The image will be made of the first beast...

13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live

______________________________________________________

15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

_____________________________________________________________

John, it looks your Kissinger second beast 666 theory don't work out. The image, in the text of Revelation 13:14, is made of the first beast. And the mark and the number of his name in 15:2 is associated with the first beast having the image made of him.

See above in 15:2
the beast
his image
his mark
the number of his name
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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God addressed the Revelation to "servants of Jesus" .... it is the last book in the Bible ...
I am confident God knew that literate servants of Jesus would have a basic understanding of the Bible
before coming to the last book in the Bible.

So due to His basic understanding of Spiritual reality ....

the servant of Jesus would not be reading the Revelation "in isolation" ....

The Revelation is NOT replete with instructions to refer back to any other books of the Bible.

(much less instruct the reader to go to the "christian book store" and stock up on books purporting to explain the Revelation
while in fact they lead you into scads of speculations and interpretations and sidetracks)

The Book of Revelation begins "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,"...Christ having been since before the foundation of the world, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last (Adam), the Beginning and the End...the whole of scripture is a cohesive narrative of the process taking place within our very being, the revealing of a son. The prophets spoke to this Truth and scripture interprets scripture by the spirit.

Even Paul spoke of this revelation of Jesus Christ..."Christ IN YOU the hope of glory" and Paul received that revelation, "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not rush to consult with flesh and blood,"

I have found most interpretations of the revelation of Jesus Christ have nothing to do with where Christ is being revealed at...with many still observing as an over here or over there with the five senses as there are not many that would consider the end of the world as an end of a way of thinking. Speculations and self interpretations bring confusion of face...God is not the author of confusion, which is a be careful how you hear...
 
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Douggg

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Even Paul spoke of this revelation of Jesus Christ..."Christ IN YOU the hope of glory" and Paul received that revelation, "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not rush to consult with flesh and blood,"
That's a beautiful eloquent verse and certainly inspirational and is the essence of what made Paul such a great Christian, who I consider a brother, hoping for the resurrection of the dead, that he might receive his incorruptible eternal redeemed body soon, and be glorified in it. Thanks for posting it.

The Revelation that God gave Jesus - is the incomparable revealing of Jesus as the crowning event of the history of creation, when the heavens part and the world sees the Lord Jesus Christ, God Almighty perceptible to creation, before the throne of God in heaven. Which is why the tribes of the earth will mourn when that day comes. And the wicked will seek to hide in the caves and desire the rocks to fall on them. When they see Jesus as he is.

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. He created this world and everything in it and he will end this world and everything in it - to create a new heaven and new earth.
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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Well, if that's the case, then the OP and thousands upon thousands of well-respected theologians are all "adding to the prophecy that is revealed in Revelation," because his statements reflect a commonly-held exegesis linking the two books of the Bible...
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
There are more people who link the two than not. Quantity does not replace quality for interpretation. I find it not coincidence that a lot tend to "prophecy" and then the things not come true.
There are more educated?? Christians who seem to associate the Daniel prophecy as already having passed, fulfilled with Antiochus Epiphanes. The restoration of the second temple and so forth. Then John's prophecy is unfolding in God's timetable as it is written. Thus it indicates the second coming and the third temple.
Funny that one would prefer to interpret according to prophets of old rather than to the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
As if the Lord stayed his hand?? Did not Jesus fulfill what was written of him??
Ezekiel 12:21-28
21Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 22“Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The days are long and every vision fails’? 23“Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel.” But tell them, “The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision. 24“For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. 25“For I the LORD will speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it,” declares the Lord GOD.’”

26Furthermore, the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 27“Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’ 28“Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord GOD.
 
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A71

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Sorry John, this a complete falsehood. Matthew 24 is also about Christ's return. If knowledge makes us arrogant, does ignorance makes us humble?
Matt 24 is about the end time of ancient Israel.
The God-sent Revelation is addressed to servants of Jesus and reveals OUR 'end time."

There are some similarities tween the two end times ....
but in order to understand the Revelation one does not need to refer back to Matt 24.
The Revelation does not direct the reader to refer back to Matt 24 or any other book.
The Revelation explains itself.
As a matter of act, regarding OUR end time, chapter 13->forward reveals all we need to know ....

EXCEPT for chapter 1:1-3 (which is crucial to believe)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show to His servants things which must soon take place.
He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
2 who bears record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy
and keep those things which are written in it, for the time is near.

 
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John Prewett

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Kissinger, the second beast? and the 666, and mark associated with the second beast?
I thought the bible says in Revelation 14:11 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. The image will be made of the first beast...
13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live ______________________________________________________
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
_____________________________________________________________

John, it looks your Kissinger second beast 666 theory don't work out. ...........

Works out fine Doug. You are ignoring that at Rev 13:11 "another beast" is introduced.

Funny how many do contortions to keep from seeing plain fulfillment.
 
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John Prewett

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Sorry John, this a complete falsehood. Matthew 24 is also about Christ's return. If knowledge makes us arrogant, does ignorance makes us humble?

Sure Matt 24 is about Christ's return. And the Matt 24 return took place nearly 2000 years ago. Do try to get up to speed
 
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Douggg

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Works out fine Doug. You are ignoring that at Rev 13:11 "another beast" is introduced.

Funny how many do contortions to keep from seeing plain fulfillment.
John, I understand that another beast is introduced in Revelation 13. But that second beast - which you are theorizing is Kissinger - he is not the one worshiped, not the one the image is made of, not his mark, not his number. Those attributes belong to the first beast which you theorize is JFK.

The image, the number, the name, the mark are all associated with the first beast.

You have the wrong beast associated with the "666" number of his name.
 
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Douggg

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May I suggest you start a Preterist thread. Bye...
A71, I don't know if you are aware, but this forum features a tags system - whereby the participation is limited to the thread tag - such as futurists only.

When someone starts a new thread, they have an option to use a tag or not in the title line (where it says "No Prefix" is a pull down menu displaying the tags).

The tags system was implemented about 4 years ago to bring order to the forum because all the threads were deteriorating to become arguments over preteristism and futuristism.
 
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I'm not trying to push my views on anyone here, just expressing them. My favorite analogy is a stopwatch, when Israel rejected the Messiah he hit the stop button. If you ever look at the prophets the coming of the kingdom coincides with the coming of the Messiah. Now not everyone accepts this line of interpretation but it's seamlessly consistant with the requisite texts. What we are waiting for is the fullness of the Gentiles to be brought into the body of Christ. I see nothing here to be divisive or contentious here. The only essential doctrine here is the return of Christ at the end of the age. You agree with me on that I would not hesitate to extend the right hand of fellowship, so to speak. Frankly I find the Levitical imagery far more interesting and the deconstruction of the beast from the sea from Daniel CH. 2 and 7 is far more informative. I'm a little bit of an odd ball on things like the rapture and the timeline, my priority is an emphasis on the return of Christ. Then we can agree to disagree and resolve to build one another up in our common faith instead of banging away at one another's views.

Grace and peace,
Mark
Would it be more correct/easier understood by others/or both, to say that instead of God stopping the CLOCK on Israel, (which technically happened) that instead He saw them as Dead Men's Bones, or as dead unto Himself until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in? Then God breathed life back into Israel again.

This explains the Daniel 2 Statue, the Daniel 7 Beasts and the 70th Week. Instead of a clock being stopped, to which many ask why would God would do that, I have begun to see these things as I think God sees them. A picture of Israels full life-span in real time. [from Daniel forward]

Statue = Head, Breast/Arms, Thighs, Legs.....Israel DEAD FOR 2000 years.....Feet with 10 toes.

Beast = Lion, Bear, Leopard, Rome......Israel DEAD FOR 2000 years.......Little Horn 10 Horns.

The picture is missing for 2000 years because they were Dead unto God. The same applies of course to the 70th Week judgment.
 
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