Now wait just a minute! This changes everything.

[OldWiseGuy]

Given that Canada does have slack immigration laws right now there have already been far too many getting free passes into this country while my sil couldn't work after his visa ran out and had to be sponsored with many repercussions on those who sponsored him in paying back any debts incurred until he could legally remain here. So these are very different times and I don't see this window being open for long in Canada.

Then there's no time to waste.

 

[Enfeoffment75]

See post #36.

(Nice try though, again)

I hope you get what you want. I personally wouldn't want to be kicked out of the only country I've ever known through no direct fault of my own, but if you do, then I hope you get your wish.

I like how you won't say you believe in Jesus, though. I'm not entirely certain what to make of that.

But, anyway, perhaps you and I can pray together that you get your wish to be punished for crimes you didn't commit. Shall we start a prayer thread?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Aren't conservatives supposed to be fiscally savvy?

It costs approximately $11k per year to educate a student in the American Public school system.

Given that we go to school for 12 years, this means that America has easily invested roughly $132k per "dreamer".

There are about 800,000 dreamers in the US
800,000 x $131k = 1,056,000,000,000

so basically, we think it is a good idea to set a trillion dollars on fire???

The GOP prides itself on understanding the free market and economics yada yada yada

and yet they will so easily throw away a trillion dollars not to mention all of the billions of man-hours invested as well. Not to mention future value. Those 800,000 dreamers will go on to make trillions of dollars worth of tax revenue pumping back into the country as they work throughout their lifetimes...

So again, why are so many within the GOP so bent on sticking it to the dreamers or so cavalier in their attitudes of dreamers being kicked out of the country?

It's now an amnesty-leading-to-massive-subsequent-illegal-immigration issue. $Billions lost now to save $Trillions later.

 

[dgiharris]

Bad analogy, I'll try again.

Should a person who is here illegally be allowed to remain just because they are a 'good person' and they've been here for years?

IMO, it depends on what your notions of fairness, justice, and crimes are as well as your sense of morality and ethics and how all of that relates to the rule of law.

If you are one of those types who believe in the letter of the law and see everything as black or white then that usually leads to one argument.

If you are one of those types who believe in the "Spirit" of the law and see these issues in terms of justice and fairness then that usually leads to a different argument.

Another component of this is empathy. Do you have empathy for people who are innocent? Does the concept of innocence play any role whatsoever in how you interpret the rule of law and/or crimes and/or punishment?

If someone runs a stop sign and kills a person, but the stop sign was not clearly visible-- due to an obstruction by something like an overgrown tree-- should that be a mitigating factor in their sentencing or should it be irrelevant because running a stop sign is running a stop sign?

All of the above are rhetorical questions because there is no right or wrong answer. We all have our own interpretations of the rule of law and how justice, fairness, and morality plays a role. The best that can be accomplished is consensus and most of us believe that "justice and fairness" should be taken into account when deciding matters of law.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A healthy, young, educated and ambitious adult?

Most nations on Earth world want.

Such young adults are expensive to raise, the result of much public investment, very economically valuable to any nation.

Part of why America was so successful. Having these immigrate here.

Actually I would prefer that these healthy, young, educated and ambitious youths would either stay in or return to their native countries and make a difference there. After all isn't that the problem. By coming here aren't they betraying their native land and people, selfishly craving success for themselves at the expense of those back home? It's a sad commentary on their character.

 

[Halbhh]

It's now an amnesty-leading-to-massive-subsequent-illegal-immigration issue. $Billions lost now to save $Trillions later.

Economically we lose if we expel healthy young adults that want to work and are educated. (Also here good English speakers of that matters to you)

So is the opposite of your guess there. The U.S., you and me, lose money by deporting her.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

IMO, it depends on what your notions of fairness, justice, and crimes are as well as your sense of morality and ethics and how all of that relates to the rule of law.

If you are one of those types who believe in the letter of the law and see everything as black or white then that usually leads to one argument.

If you are one of those types who believe in the "Spirit" of the law and see these issues in terms of justice and fairness then that usually leads to a different argument.

Another component of this is empathy. Do you have empathy for people who are innocent? Does the concept of innocence play any role whatsoever in how you interpret the rule of law and/or crimes and/or punishment?

If someone runs a stop sign and kills a person, but the stop sign was not clearly visible-- due to an obstruction by something like an overgrown tree-- should that be a mitigating factor in their sentencing or should it be irrelevant because running a stop sign is running a stop sign?

All of the above are rhetorical questions because there is no right or wrong answer. We all have our own interpretations of the rule of law and how justice, fairness, and morality plays a role. The best that can be accomplished is consensus and most of us believe that "justice and fairness" should be taken into account when deciding matters of law.

Re my next post;

Fairness to a few bright illegals = unfairness to their native peoples who desperately need them at home.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Economically we lose if we expel healthy young adults that want to work and are educated. (Also here good English speakers of that matters to you)

So is the opposite of your guess there. The U.S., you and me, lose money by deporting her.

There is a global 'brain drain' anyway. And sadly the ****hole countries being drained need them the most. Isn't it curious that a third world country can produce a world class graduate in the very disciplines that it desperately needs, then exports that talent to a country that has such talented people tripping over each other.

 

[Belk]

Bad analogy, I'll try again.

Should a person who is here illegally be allowed to remain just because they are a 'good person' and they've been here for years?

I would say that depends on if we have a valid reason for not letting them stay. If a person, such as this young woman, is making a worthwhile contribution why would we kick her out simply to follow a rule that she had no volitional part in breaking?

 

[Halbhh]

Actually I would prefer that these healthy, young, educated and ambitious youths would either stay in or return to their native countries and make a difference there. After all isn't that the problem. By coming here aren't they betraying their native land and people, selfishly craving success for themselves at the expense of those back home? It's a sad commentary on their character.

It is true that if their native country is safe and law abiding, then they could aid that country, yes. That's a good point also in the big picture.

But why not let them choose?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It is true that if their native country is safe and law abiding, then they could aid that country, yes. That's a good point also in the big picture.

But why not let them choose?

Sure. They can get line and immigrate legally.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Then there's no time to waste.

Yes Trump should be telling them that. it!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes Trump should be telling them that. it!

Like I said, they're not going to get kicked out. I think Trump is using the issue to get the wall funded first.

 

[Go Braves]

One of the worst stories I heard about happened in the 80s.

Imagine growing up in the US thinking you are a US citizen all the way until you are 17 and applying for college scholarships. That was when a girl found out that her parents had lied to her her entire life and that she was an illegal alien that was smuggled into the country by her parents at age 2.

I remember her case was in the news. She was a straight A student and as American as Apple Pie, but the powers that be wanted to deport her and her family. I can't remember if she was allowed to stay or if she had to leave with her family...

I just remember thinking "Man, imagine if that happened to you. You think you are American your whole life and literally at the snap of a finger you are facing deportation at age 17..."

That would be terrible. I haven't known somebody in that situation but know quite a few who were brought to the US when they were still in diapers, no memory at all of where they were born. In rural Georgia there's a lot of migrants who are hired from El Salvador, Mexico, to work the farms. Lots of Americans simply don't want those jobs, on account of them involving a lot of manual labor, little pay. Stick their noses up at it. The farmers themselves said they'd be in a world of trouble without the migrants. One of my buddies growing up there was the only 1 of his siblings born outside the US. His brother who was just 1 grade below him, full American citizen on account of being born in Georgia. So facing down having to be separated from his whole family, friends, life he made, with no memory of what was in El Salvador was pretty dang terrifying. His family fled out of fear for their survival, it wasn't just about them seeing that the grass was greener in the States. Idk what will happen to him long-term. He graduated at the top of his class & landed a full baseball scholarship, he's in his 1st year now. Hope it all gets sorted out for him. He's like that gal the OP talks about, somebody who is intent upon making something of themselves, being of service to others. I know some other folks from El Salvador, now they did take the legal road to come to the States but it took 27 years.

 

[Think like Christ]

It takes a special kind of person to view brain drain as a feature.

For those who aren't too bright, it is.

 

[Think like Christ]

Like I said, they're not going to get kicked out. I think Trump is using the issue to get the wall funded first.

Haha! I wonder if anyone is going to let Trump know that mankind has invented something called a "ladder"?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Haha! I wonder if anyone is going to let Trump know that mankind has invented something called a "ladder"?

Trump will 'see' your ladder and 'raise' you a spy drone, infrared sensor, and two German shepherds.

 

[wing2000]

So again, why are so many within the GOP so bent on sticking it to the dreamers or so cavalier in their attitudes of dreamers being kicked out of the country?

Spite.

 

[JGG]

Have we consulted with Canada about this new plan to just dump the dreamers up there?

 

[JGG]

You should remember that as a Christian you should always do unto others as you would have them do to you.

Even if they're, y'know...ethnic?

This young woman is for all intents and purposes a 100% American who did NOTHING ILLEGAL herself and she is facing being kicked out of her home for NO REASON.

Well, not no reason. I mean, she probably doesn't particularly like Trump.