Now wait just a minute! This changes everything.

[mark46]

EVENT ONE - Trump rejected the deal negotiated over many weeks by Senate Republican and Democratic Senators.

EVENT TWO - Durbin has tried to take political advantage of Trump's statements regarding African countries, Norway, and Central American temporary refugees. Yes, Durbin calls the policy and the man he opposes racist. The people can judge whether the label adds anything to merely saying that Trump prefers Norwegian immigrants to Haitians immigrants.

I believe that both actions are reasonable political actions, although I may disagree with them, or not.

No, I am saying what bunches of observers have said and the president himself seemed to agree with, that the Democrats claimed at the onset that they were interested in a mutually agreeable settlement. They said so, and I heard them say it.

BUT AFTER AWHILE, they reconsidered and decided to do what Durbin, as the spokesman, showed us. That is to find a way to make the president seem like a racist such that he would cave on the wall issue and accept the DACA proposal offered by the Democrats just to counter the charge.

You know that Democrats have used this weapon many times and believe that if you call anyone a racist they will move heaven and earth in order, hopefully, to demonstrate that they are not racist.

The main reason it did not work in this case? Well that could be because Trump was determined not to be whipsawed that way OR else it's because Durbin, who should have known that he is on record as doing this sort of thing, was so bold as to lay out his strategy as nakedly as he did.

 

[mark46]

How unfair of Trumps opponents to use his very own words against him. Have they no shame?

I would note that this is a failed approach of Trump's opponents. Many truly believe that it is unfair to use Trump's words against him. After all, his words are merely for the sake of effect or negotiation.

 

[DaisyDay]

It would be interesting to know when each of these dreamers was made aware that they are illegally in the U.S. At that point they are responsible for their illegal status.

It would be like being made aware that something given to you was actually stolen property. Keeping it, while knowing who it belongs to, makes you a thief.

What's your stance on reparations to descendants of slaves?

 

[Albion]

EVENT ONE - Trump rejected the deal negotiated over many weeks by Senate Republican and Democratic Senators.

You're assuming that this was the death knell for the negotiations. Think of it as Trump doing what Trump, the famous negotiator, does--or that any one of us might do when dealing with a car salesman.

Now go to event two.

EVENT TWO - Durbin has tried to take political advantage of Trump's statements regarding African countries, Norway, and Central American temporary refugees. Yes, Durbin calls the policy and the man he opposes racist. The people can judge whether the label adds anything to merely saying that Trump prefers Norwegian immigrants to Haitians immigrants.

But do not overlook the fact that Durbin himself virtually announced that this was seized upon (and perhaps fabricated) IN ORDER TO get the president to come back and accept whatever the Democrats had proposed.

 

[Allandavid]

You're assuming that this was the death knell for the negotiations. Think of it as Trump doing what Trump, the famous negotiator, does--or that any one of us might do when dealing with a car salesman.

Now go to event two.


But do not overlook the fact that Durbin himself virtually announced that this was seized upon (and perhaps fabricated) IN ORDER TO get the president to come back and accept whatever the Democrats had proposed.

An opportunity for Trump to learn that his statements have consequences...?

(What am I thinking...Trump learn something...??)

 

[mark46]

I agree that Trump's what been indeed negotiating when pretending to agree with Chuck and Nancy, and pretending that he would accept the non-partisan negotiated deal. This is his style.

I disagree with your continued characterization of the deal presented to the president. This was NOT Durbin's Democratic proposal.

[/QUOTE="Albion, post: 72230443, member: 93831"]You're assuming that this was the death knell for the negotiations. Think of it as Trump doing what Trump, the famous negotiator, does--or that any one of us might do when dealing with a car salesman.

Now go to event two.


But do not overlook the fact that Durbin himself virtually announced that this was seized upon (and perhaps fabricated) IN ORDER TO get the president to come back and accept whatever the Democrats had proposed.[/QUOTE]

 

[mark46]

????

The only consequences of Trump's statements have been higher ratings for the networks and greater support from his base.

Surely no one else is surprised by Trump preferring Norwegians to Haitians. After all, it was trump's father who greatly valued his Swedish heritage. Of course, he had no Swedish blood at all.

An opportunity for Trump to learn that his statements have consequences...?

(What am I thinking...Trump learn something...??)

 

[wing2000]

No, I am saying what bunches of observers have said and the president himself seemed to agree with, that the Democrats claimed at the onset that they were interested in a mutually agreeable settlement. They said so, and I heard them say it.

BUT AFTER AWHILE, they reconsidered and decided to do what Durbin, as the spokesman, showed us. That is to find a way to make the president seem like a racist such that he would cave on the wall issue and accept the DACA proposal offered by the Democrats just to counter the charge. It was tailor made for the Democrats, after all, tying Hispanic immigrants to the race issue.

You know that Democrats have used this weapon many times and believe that if you call anyone a racist they will move heaven and earth in order, hopefully, to demonstrate that they are not actually racist.

The main reason it did not work in this case? Well that could be because Trump was determined not to be whipsawed that way OR else it's because Durbin, who should have known that he is on record as doing this sort of thing, was so bold as to lay out his strategy as nakedly as he did.

....BUT after awhile, Sens Cotton, Perdue and their House cohorts got to Trump and convinced him to reject the bi-partisan proposal this past Thursday.

 

[mark46]

....BUT after awhile, Sens Cotton, Perdue and their House cohorts got to Trump and convinced him to reject the bi-partisan proposal this past Thursday.

I don't think that it went down that way.

The meeting was a setup. The bill that was negotiated by the 6 senators, and presented by Durbin and Graham never had a chance.

 

[Albion]

I agree that Trump's what been indeed negotiating when pretending to agree with Chuck and Nancy, and pretending that he would accept the non-partisan negotiated deal. This is his style.

I disagree with your continued characterization of the deal presented to the president. This was NOT Durbin's Democratic proposal.

I think I said he was the spokesman. If not, that's what I meant. I don't think he acted unilaterally, no. But he was the one whom the media always showed doing the explaining about who did what and so on.

 

[mark46]

My objection was to your characterization of the negotiated proposal of the 6 senators as a Democratic proposal.

Durbin has been a point person. So has Graham.

I think I said he was the spokesman. If not, that's what I meant. I don't think he acted unilaterally, no. But he was the one whom the media always showed doing the explaining about who did what and so on.

 

[wing2000]

"The Tuesday Trump" and "The Thursday Trump" - Lindsay Graham

Go to 2:31
Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen Faces Questions DACA, Jan 16 2018

 

[mark46]

I am certainly proud of my senator. We should all listen to this. BTW, the Secretary agreed with the Graham's understanding of Phase I and Phase II, and even agreed to meet with Graham.

According to graham, there was a likely deal at 10AM on Thursday, but that clearly something had happened before the noon meeting. Graham promised us all that he would find out what happened. His statement to the media was that Trump changed his positions based on poor advice from his staff, most likely his Chief of Staff.

"The Tuesday Trump" and "The Thursday Trump" - Lindsay Graham

Go to 2:31
Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen Faces Questions DACA, Jan 16 2018

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes.

There is an old saying (that I made up years ago),

"Don't build your castle on someone else's land."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What's your stance on reparations to descendants of slaves?

It has been said (rightly or wrongly so) that the best thing that has ever happened to many black Americans is having ancestors that were brought here....albeit as slaves.

 

[cow451]

I would note that this is a failed approach of Trump's opponents. Many truly believe that it is unfair to use Trump's words against him. After all, his words are merely for the sake of effect or negotiation.

Sort of like the Book of Revelation. Does this passage mean this or does it mean that? Is it about the future or the past? Was Nero the Antichrist or is it Steven Colbert?

 

[Allandavid]

There is an old saying (that I made up years ago),

"Don't build your castle on someone else's land."

You should put your time to better use....

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You should put your time to better use....

I'm sorry that the profundity of my little proverb escapes you. Although it is a universal tenet of land-law it also has great meaning for the common man when fully understood.