Millennial Considerations

[seventysevens]

It can only mean one thing. There are no more days after that day. The sun will no longer rise and set. There will be no night.

Yes there will be

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

 

[seventysevens]

Really?

They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

I don't see the word "body" in there anywhere.



So because Jesus didn't use this particular word, John can't possibly have used it in Revelation?

Point is when you choose to use words that can cause confusion , IT WILL
Why not just use the same terms the bible does so people will understand what you mean instead of using terms that need further discussion just to find out what you mean ?

 

[seventysevens]

Really?

They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

I don't see the word "body" in there anywhere.

What do you think "came to life" means ?
People need a body to reign over other people - unless you think they are ghosts

 

[DavidPT]

I'm not sure why you take what scripture so clearly defines as a single resurrection and divide it into two.

Acts 24:15
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Truth7t7 is correct that there are two resurrections there. I at least agree with that part. Truth7t7 also brought up Daniel 12:1-2.


Daniel 12:2 And many(rab) of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


What we need to ask ourselves though, why is the text translated 'many' rather than 'all'?

The same Hebrew word for 'many' is also used in verse 3 as well.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many(rab) to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Unless one was a unversalist, no one would take 'many' in verse 3 to be meaning all. So why would it mean all in verse 2 when it doesn't mean all in verse 3 as well?

 

[LastSeven]

No, no, no. The "first resurrection" of Rev.20 is only unto Eternal Life through Christ Jesus. It is the "resurrection of life" of John 5. It is for Christ's elect only at His coming.

My mistake. Although it seems we agree that the first resurrection is spiritual, as opposed to physical, we disagree on the timing.

But think of it this way. Why even mention a "first" resurrection at all? Why did Rev.20 include the ordinal of a first? That automatically suggests at least one more resurrection LIKE the "first resurrection".

I'll tell you why. It's because in order to inherit eternal life we need to experience both resurrections. First we need to reconcile to God, then we need immortal bodies.

You're misinterpreting Acts 3:21. That is about Christ having ascended to the right hand of The Father during this present world. At His return is when death is swallowed up in victory... for everyone, both the just and the unjust.

But the unjust will still have souls that are liable to perish at the "second death" of Rev.20.

You're missing the part about "the restoration of all things". That's referring to, well, the restoration of all things. As in, new heaven and new earth.

 

[LastSeven]

The thousand years of Rev.20 is actually on the tail end of this world. The difference is that at Christ's coming in our near future, we all will be in spiritual bodies on earth. Right after the GWT Judgment is when God will make the new heavens and a new earth.

Didn't you see what I highlighted in 1 Corinthians 15? Paul says that at His coming, then the end will come and he will hand over the kingdom to God the Father.

So if Jesus hands over the kingdom that's the end of the thousand years, not the beginning. And that's at his coming. So Jesus returns at the end of the thousand years, not the beginning. It says so, right there in 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[LastSeven]

Truth7t7 is correct that there are two resurrections there. I at least agree with that part. Truth7t7 also brought up Daniel 12:1-2.


Daniel 12:2 And many(rab) of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


What we need to ask ourselves though, why is the text translated 'many' rather than 'all'?

The same Hebrew word for 'many' is also used in verse 3 as well.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many(rab) to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Unless one was a unversalist, no one would take 'many' in verse 3 to be meaning all. So why would it mean all in verse 2 when it doesn't mean all in verse 3 as well?

It's a valid question. One could argue that though "many" is not always "all", "all" is always "many".

 

[LastSeven]

But what about the point I made in regards to the souls in Revelation 20:4, that Revelation 20:6 applies to them as well, and that that includes---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ? How is that explained per Amil doctrine?

I don't see the problem. As Amils we believe that we are currently priests of God and of Christ, preaching the gospel and ministering in the name of Jesus on earth during the current reign.

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth7t7 is correct that there are two resurrections there. I at least agree with that part. Truth7t7 also brought up Daniel 12:1-2.


Daniel 12:2 And many(rab) of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


What we need to ask ourselves though, why is the text translated 'many' rather than 'all'?

The same Hebrew word for 'many' is also used in verse 3 as well.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many(rab) to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Unless one was a unversalist, no one would take 'many' in verse 3 to be meaning all. So why would it mean all in verse 2 when it doesn't mean all in verse 3 as well?

Dave you are well aware Daniel 12:1-2 clearly states "All whose names are in the book"?

Then you being the savy guy you are know well this is the same book seen in Revelation 20:11-15, You are well aware Daniel 12:1-2 & John 5:28-29 is the same parallel teaching.

Why do you run around playing the word game, you know the truth of these very simple scriptures?

 

[LastSeven]

Again, you're taking that Acts 3:21 verse out of context. It's about Jesus having ascended to The Father and waiting during this present world in the heavenly. The time to begin restoration is not until His second coming, and surely you're not going to try and say that Jesus' 2nd coming has already happened just so you can keep that tradition on that verse.

Huh? Why would I say that Jesus' second coming has already happened? Have I ever suggested that Jesus comes at the beginning of the thousand years?

On the contrary, I'm mentioning Acts 3:21 because it clearly says that Jesus won't return until the time of the new earth, which is at the end of the thousand years. In other words, Jesus returns at the end of the thousand years.

And let me guess; you're claiming that the restoration will take 1000 years to complete so that you can maintain that Jesus returns at the beginning of the thousand years. Unless you have a scriptural basis for God requiring 1000 years to renew all things, that seems like eisegesis to me.

 

[DavidPT]

Didn't you see what I highlighted in 1 Corinthians 15? Paul says that at His coming, then the end will come and he will hand over the kingdom to God the Father.

So if Jesus hands over the kingdom that's the end of the thousand years, not the beginning. And that's at his coming. So Jesus returns at the end of the thousand years, not the beginning. It says so, right there in 1 Corinthians 15.

In either scenario, be it Premil or be it Amil, Jesus hands over the kingdom after the thousand years. Why does that only logically work per Amil but not logically per Premil as well? The text doesn't indicate this happens at His coming. The text only indicates that it happens because of His coming. The last enemy death has to be destroyed first. Can't do that prior to the great white throne judgment.

 

[LastSeven]

You post the scripture that stated "Both" that means "Two" different resurrections at the same time.

"First" the righteous, to eternal life

"Second" the wicked to eternal damnation.

Two completely different resurrections on the "Last Day" John 6:40, John 5:28-29

No, the word "both" in that passage refers to both groups of people. The wicked and the righteous.

 

[seventysevens]

Really?
They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

I don't see the word "body" in there anywhere.

What do you think "came to life" means ?
People need a body to reign over other people - unless you think they are ghosts

 

[DavidPT]

Dave you are well aware Daniel 12:1-2 clearly states "All whose names are in the book"?

Then you being the savy guy you are know well this is the same book seen in Revelation 20:11-15, You are well aware Daniel 12:1-2 & John 5:28-29 is the same parallel teaching.

Why do you run around playing the word game, you know the truth of these very simple scriptures?

I don't dispute it is meaning all of the righteous. What I dispute is that it is meaning all of the dead combined, both the righteous and unrighteous. The text indicates 'many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake', and not 'all of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake'. Just totally ignore the point I made per verse 3 and this same Hebrew word, right?

 

[LastSeven]

In either scenario, be it Premil or be it Amil, Jesus hands over the kingdom after the thousand years. Why does that only logically work per Amil but not logically per Premil as well?

The text doesn't indicate this happens at His coming. The text only indicates that it happens because of His coming.

But it does indicate that all this happens at his coming. That's the point.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

See, it says "when he comes" not "because he comes".

The last enemy death has to be destroyed first. Can't do that prior to the great white throne judgment.

That depends on whether you consider the lake of fire to be "death". Rev 20:14 says that death was thrown into the "second death" (lake of fire). How does that make sense?

Anyway, I consider all these events (Jesus' return, last resurrection, judgment, end of death, etc.) to take place at essentially the same time so arguing about the exact order of things seems like arguing about semantics, as long as it all happens at the end of the thousand years, which it does.

 

[LastSeven]

What do you think "came to life" means ?
People need a body to reign over other people - unless you think they are ghosts

Reign over other people? Where did you get that from? We reign over the spirit world, not people. And for that we don't need a resurrected body, we need a resurrected spirit.

 

[LastSeven]

Yes there will be

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

I don't get it. Is that passage supposed to prove that there will be more days after the last day?

 

[LastSeven]

Point is when you choose to use words that can cause confusion , IT WILL
Why not just use the same terms the bible does so people will understand what you mean instead of using terms that need further discussion just to find out what you mean ?

You're not making any sense. The point of discussion is Revelation chapter 20 which most definitely uses the word, and therefore so do I. Yet, here you are claiming that I can't call the first resurrection a "resurrection" because Jesus never used that word and you're accusing me of causing confusion?

 

[seventysevens]

Reign over other people? Where did you get that from? We reign over the spirit world, not people. And for that we don't need a resurrected body, we need a resurrected spirit.

Shoe me a scripture that specifies we reign over the spirit world , why is that needed , God has that handled already , and the scripture says

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

reigning for 1000 years ,

 

[seventysevens]

I don't get it. Is that passage supposed to prove that there will be more days after the last day?

Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

Do you see people in this ? nations are people