Why Believers are not under the Old Covenant Law of Moses

[LoveGodsWord]

Hebrews 4:1-11

In these verses Paul is speaking about the Israelites not entering the Promised Land because of there unbelief.

He is equating what God said about the seventh day to the Promised Land.

Then in verse 8 he says that Joshua did not give them the rest because David is still saying "Today".

So the conclusion is verse 9 God's people still have a rest to enter in.

Then he says in verse 11 we should labor to enter that rest.

Then Jesus says in Matt 11 28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

So we see that Jesus is our Sabbath/rest.

Sorry Doug the reason those did not enter in to God's rest was because of UNBELIEF. This is the same as UNBELIEVERS will not enter into God's Kingdom. This is because of SIN and not believing and following God's Word. The reference for Hebrews 4 is God's Sabbath and the origin of the Sabbath in the creation week. It says nothing at all about Jesus being a Sabbath as the Sabbath is a day not a person. Then you quote Matthew 11:28 which is talking about Jesus giving rest to those that believe and follow God's Word which is exactly what I have been talking about.

Not sure? Let's look at God's Word..........................

HEBREWS 4

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points...............

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbelief (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through

So nope your interpretation does not agree with God’s Word. You agree that there is no scripture that says God’s 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

2nd question Repentance is not aboutturning from sin. Repentance comes from the Greek word metanoia which means to change mind. Repent from trying to get righteous on your own. Mark 1:15 Repent and believe the Gospel. = Change your mind and believe the Gospel. Change your mind from what? Sin? We already know sin is evil, we don't want to change that. We want to stop trying to be righteous on our own. Because all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. If repentance was about sin, why did Jesus have to undergo John's baptism? Paul said it was a Baptism of repentance. Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. So for Jesus to undergo this baptism He had to stop relying on His own ability to keep the law. He was now operating in faith, relying on the Holy Spirit who will never have us disobey the law. And I know Jesus was in faith, because after He came up out of the water there was a Voice from Heaven that said, "This is My Beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". Heb 11:6 says, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him". So we see that the question is an invalid question. And if you anyone thinks they can turn from every single sin they commit, they are in a state of denial. They are not believing the things they do are sin. Nobody can keep these 4 laws all of the time. Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. Live in faith all of the time. Because whatsoever is not of faith is sin. To do good when you know to do good.

Doug,

Firstly no one is saying to you that you should from your sins in your own righteousness because we have none and all we can do without Jesus is SIN. Our salvation is from SIN not in SIN and it only happens as we have faith and believe and follow God’s Word as we ABIDE IN HIM by WALKING BY FAITH in HIS SPIRIT. You cannot separate love from obedience because on these two commandments (of LOVE) hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40; Roman 13:10-12; James 3:8-12)

Repentance is indeed turning away from SIN and of course it means a change of mind because that is where SIN starts. SIN starts in the mind and it is here we need to first start turning away from it because we first sin in the mind before it becomes action.

That is why Jesus says…………….

Matthew 15:19-20
19, For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20, These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Ezekiel 18
30, Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent <H7725; Turn away from evil>, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions <H6588; SIN>; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31, Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32, For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

We have to seek God for a change of heart to turn away from sin this is repentance (Hebrew and Greek meanings; H7725 and G3340 for repent; repentance).

Matthew 3
8, Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Repentance; Greek meaning; G3341; From G3340; (subjectively) compunction for guilt, including reformation; by implication reversal (of [another's] decision): - repentance.

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Thayer - G3341

G3341 — μετάνοια

μετανοίας, ἡ (μετανοέω), a change of mind: as it appears in one who repents of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done, Heb 12:17 on which see εὑρίσκω, 3 ((Thucydides 3, 36, 3); Polybius 4, 66, 7; Plutarch, Peric c. 10; mor., p. 26 a.; τῆς ἀδελφοκτονιας μετάνοια, Josephus, Antiquities 13, 11, 3); especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life, so that it embraces both a recognition of sin and sorrow for it and hearty amendment, the tokens and effects of which are good deeds (Lactantius, 6, 24, 6 would have it rendered in Latin byresipiscentia) (A. V. repentance)

Obedience is the fruit of Faith if we have no fruit we show ourselves as UNBELIVERS and do not know God………….

Matthew 7
16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19, Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

So the question is indeed a valid one and that is………..

If someone is living a life in unrepentant sin are they in a saved state before God or an unsaved state?

No one seems to want to answer this question but God’s Word already answers this question………..

The answer is NO! Someone that is living in a life of known unrepentant SIN is NOT IN A SAVED STATE BEFORE GOD!

What happened to the World in the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorrah? THEY WERE DESTROYED BECAUSE OF UNREPENTANT SIN………………..

Genesis 6
5, And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 6
4, For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8, But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

1 John 2:2-4
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:3-10
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Psalms 1
5, Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6, For the LORD knows the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

2 Peter 2
3, And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
4, For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5, And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6, And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly;
7, And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

Jude 1
14, And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Ecclesiastes 12
13, Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14, For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Isaiah 1
28, And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.

Isaiah 13
9, Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Isaiah 33
14, The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15, He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
16, He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.

Proverb 8
36, But he that sins against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death

Ezekiel 18
4, Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
20, The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21, But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22, All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23, Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24, But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26, When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27, Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28, Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29, Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30, Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31, Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32, For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves , and live ye.

Proverbs 28
9, He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Ezekiel 33
10, Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?
11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15 , I f the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

Romans 6
23, For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Old Covenant versus New Covenant God demanded righteousness from man. See 10 Commandments

You asked. Old Covenant versus New Covenant God demanded righteousness from man. God imparts righteousness to man through the finished work of.See 10 Commandments Jesus (Romans 4:5-7)

Hi Doug, some of this has already been answered in Post # 224 above. The intent of my question was mainly in reference to the Laws of the covenants and how they relate to each other. Those in the Old Covenant (God's Law and the Mosaic laws) and how they relate to the New Covenant we are now under. There is too many scriptures to write them out individually but you can scroll over them and read the text if you like.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OLD AND NEW COVENANTS LAWS?

It was the Mosaic Laws for sin that were Shadows pointing to the life, death, resurrection of Jesus and his new role as our great high Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary that was finished at the cross. We are no longer required to fulfill the Old Covenant Mosaic laws under the New Covenant because they are all fulfilled in Christ and pointed to him as our sacrificial lamb of God and our great high priest (Hebrews 8; 9; 10).

God's Law however plays the same role as it always has and that is to reveal sin and give us a knowledge of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (good and evil) James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20

What is the purpose of God's Law (10 commandments) and the Mosaic laws...................

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose; reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)

(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose; was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the saviour of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).

More scriptures on this subject here linked referring to Colossians 2:14-17 linking old and new testament writings.................

Just as the Mosaic laws were temporary pointing to Jesus, God's Law is forever and the standard of the Old Covenant the New Covenant and the Judgement to come......

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5).

God's Law (10 commandments) are the standard of the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Judgement to come.

Just as the Mosaic laws were temporary pointing to Jesus, God's Law is forever and the standard of the Old Covenant the New Covenant and the Judgement to come......

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5).

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[klutedavid]

Sorry Doug the reason those did not enter in to God's rest was because of UNBELIEF. This is the same as UNBELIEVERS will not enter into God's Kingdom. This is because of SIN and not believing and following God's Word. The reference for Hebrews 4 is God's Sabbath and the origin of the Sabbath in the creation week. It says nothing at all about Jesus being a Sabbath as the Sabbath is a day not a person. Then you quote Matthew 11:28 which is talking about Jesus giving rest to those that believe and follow God's Word which is exactly what I have been talking about.

Not sure? Let's look at God's Word..........................

HEBREWS 4

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points...............

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbelief (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through

So nope your interpretation does not agree with God’s Word. You agree that there is no scripture that says God’s 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

Hello LGW.

Check the quotation in your post. (Hebrews 4:8)

There is something wrong in that line.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello LGW.
Check the quotation in your post. (Hebrews 4:8)
There is something wrong in that line.

KJV uses Jesus instead of Joshua

 

[1213]

It is the same thing; they were not able to bear it, unbearable. Same thing. The Old Covenant Law of Moses was never intended for us to be able to bear it, otherwise Yeshua's death would be unnecessary.

Sorry, I don’t see any Biblical reason to believe that.

 

[sparow]

Yes, it comes from Jeremiah 31.
If the New Covenant is only for lost sheep of Israel, what covenant are we Gentiles under?
The Old Covenant was given to Israel, not the Gentiles.

The old covenant was made with Israel yet it was not new but renewed; it was previously made with Abraham and very likely Adam and others:

Genesis 26:5 (NKJV)
5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

There is only one covenant even though is presented differently from time to time. In as far as the Gentiles are in covenant with God it is the one covenant; for a gentile to be in covenant with God a conversion is required such that they are no longer called gentiles but are called Israel. That the Law would go to the gentile is prophesied at least twice in the OT and this happened following Pentecost.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
My sin did not make me a sinner. Adam's sin being passed down to me made me a sinner and I sinned because of it.

Adam's sin did NOT pass down to you or anyone else. What passed down to you was the CONSEQUENCES of that sin...death. YOUR sin makes you a sinner.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Taking the scriptures literally is too large and complicated a topic for me to get tangled up with at the moment but I see you have made the same error with 2Timothy3:16.

Taking SOME of the Scriptures literally (some are not literal) is the foundation of good and proper Bible understanding through correct exegesis. It is essential to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone who debates Bible issues should take the time to do it right.[

I made no "error" with 2 Timothy 3:16. This is a literal passage regarding ALL Scripture, including Yeshua's New Covenant commands and the words of Paul.

16 All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Paul refers to the OT which Christ has authenticated also. Paul's writings included in the NT cannon by Church fathers under the supervision of a Roman Emperor; you may accept their authority were as I do not. In the OT a lot of books contain words like "the sovereign Lord has spoken" or that God has spoken can be derived from the text; there are a couple of books that do not have God speaking; Ruth is such a book but it is claimed Ruth contains an overview of the plan of salvation.

I accept the entire Scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation as
All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.

BTW, the book of the Bible quoting the specific words G-d speaking, contain G-d's words according to the entire Scriptures as they are all breathed out by HIM.

If you do not accept the entire Scriptures are from G-d, there is no foundation to engage in Biblical discussion.

Even when scripture is God breathed it can still be interfered with by men; let the reader beware.

Since Scripture is G-d breathed, it is HIS and nothing can be interfered with. He is holy, as are His words and only those who interpret wrongly are the problem, not G-d. Let the reader beware of those rejecting the holiness, purity and truth of G-d's word in its entirety.

 

[Bob S]

The old covenant was not a covenant about salvation, so how could the Sabbath of that covenant be salvational like the SDAs claim? Wouldn't that be salvation by works?

The new covenant which, Christians are under, is not about keeping days. The Sabbath is a false selling point to hook potential members.

 

[FreeAtLast]

I seem to be repeating myself;

Yes, you are because you are saying the same statements over and over that disagree with G-d's word, so people are refuting your opinions with His truth. It's what we see in a Biblical discussion.

the old covenant was before Christ so I am obviously not under that.

The new covenant is since Christ but the covenant has not changed,

Oh, but it HAS changed. Jeremiah 31:31-34 states that G-d was bringing a NEW Covenant, not like the Old made at Sinai. Yeshua said with His own words that HE was bringing that NEW Covenant, that changed covenant. So, yes, according to G-d the Old Covenant DID change and for the better!

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the L-rd, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the L-rd. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the L-rd: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the L-rd,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the L-rd. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

What Law? Yeshua's New Covenant Law. How do we know that? Because in verses 31 and 32, that this NEW Covenant is unlike the Old one containing the Law of Moses. Entirely new, there is no such thing as a renewed covenant according to Scripture. Only Old and New.

G-d's promises of what the NEW Covenant will contain and be applied only happened once Yeshua gave us the Holy Spirit in His New Covenant.

John 14:
15“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Yeshua's commandments, not the Old Covenant Law of Moses. Nothing "renewed".


John 14:26
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 15:26
"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,

John 16:8
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

John 16:13
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

So, you see Yeshua says that His NEW Covenant will be administered by the Holy Spirit and are Yeshua's commands, not the Old and nothing "renewed" because the Holy Spirit will teach Yeshua's truth by His commands that will be written on our hearts.

but merely moved along a timeline. The new covenant is the old covenant fulfilled. A lot of people think Jesus fulfilled the ten commandments perfectly such that they do not need to keep the Law but what Jesus fulfilled was and is still fulfilling is the old covenant or as Daniel put it He is confirming the covenant, transforming promise into reality.

Nope, see above. Yes, Yeshua fulfilled the ENTIRE Old Covenant, including the Law which contains the 10 commandments and replaced them with HIS New Covenant which contain His NEW commands. Some of similar to the Old, some are not. One glaring deletion is the Sabbath. Yeshua did not include this in His commands.

The renewed covenant, if one is familiar with the Gospels, is renewed with the lost sheep of Israel who had been out of covenant with God since before the Babylonian captivity.

Pleas produce one Scripture, Old or New which states that there will be a "renewed" covenant. I don't see one. I only see NEW, unlike the Old. Which as shown clearly by Scripture above is exactly what Yeshua gave us Luke 22:20, and what we, IF we are truly His children.

20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

 

[Bob S]

The old covenant was made with Israel yet it was not new but renewed; it was previously made with Abraham and very likely Adam and others:

Genesis 26:5 (NKJV)
5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Are you sure?

There is only one covenant even though is presented differently from time to time. In as far as the Gentiles are in covenant with God it is the one covenant; for a gentile to be in covenant with God a conversion is required such that they are no longer called gentiles but are called Israel. That the Law would go to the gentile is prophesied at least twice in the OT and this happened following Pentecost.

Have you studied the New Testament?

 

[FreeAtLast]

FREEATLAST: The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

FL: The legalistic keeping of the Torah, in order to deserve salvation, to accumulate merits is a yoke, because nobody can fulfill the Torah this way. However, the believer who loves God and his neighbour, because he has received the Holy Spirit, after he was saved by grace, no matter wether he was in the Christian or pre-Christian era, he DOES keep the Torah in a way accepted by God. The same Luke says: ”Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly. (Lk. 1:6 NIV). ”Then they (the Christian women) went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment. (Lk. 23:56 NIV). ”On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the river, where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. (Acts 16:13 NIV) And why should be the Sabbath „an unbearable yoke”? Did God created human beings to give them a wrong example and a hateful yoke? (see Genesis 2:1-3). Is it so difficult to rest in God/Jesus one day WITHOUT WORKS, while it is good news to rest in Him EVERY WORKING DAY?

A true Believer who received the Holy Spirit is under Yeshua's NEW Covenant, not the Old Covenant Law of Moses, which G-d says was and is an unbearable yoke. It was never designed to be bearable. Otherwise Yeshua would not have needed to die, be resurrected and give us the Holy Spirit. We do not "keep the Torah" any longer as specified by G-d in His New Covenant Scriptures. IF one is truly saved by faith in Yeshua as G-d and His grace, they (we) are under Yeshua's NEW Covenant, not the Old Covenant Law of Moses.

FREEATLAST: The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)
FL: Very well. We need it just for this reason: to reveal our sin. If you are not guilty, you will not need Christ.

Everyone is guilty. And there is only ONE who forgave our sin completely and for all time and that was not the Old Covenant Law of Moses, but Yeshua.

Romans 3:23-27
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of G-d, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

FREEATLAST: The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)
FL: Because they follow it not by faith, but by meritory works (Rom 9:32-22).

If one has faith, it is faith in Yeshua, not the Old Covenant Law. Works do not save, they never have. So those under the Old Covenant Law of Moses will receive wrath from G-d rather than eternal life. The Law did not and could not save anyone, only faith in Yeshua as G-d to forgive our sins (that the Old Covenant Law could not do) and trusting in Him can save us, not the Law.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For G-d has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,c he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit

FREEATLAST: The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)
FL: TO INCREASE sin means TO MAKE SIN MORE VISIBLE, OR MAKE ME MORE AWARE OF SIN. But the grace is multiplied only for those to whom the Law increased the sin: ”The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,...”(Rom. 5:20 NIV).

To increase our AWARENESS of sin so that we might know that we have sinned and need to be forgiven. That G-d takes sin seriously, requiring DEATH for it and that only ONE could make the total and permanent sacrifice for sin, Yeshua haMashiach.

Hebrews 10:1-18
For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Consequently, when Christ[a] came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O G-d,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of G-d, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.


FL, I'll continue the rest in another post as this is getting to long for people to follow. Please feel free to start on these! Shalom!

 

[listed]

Actually you did say that.

You are saying once I am saved, and if I sin I am back under the law.
How is that not needing to keep the law to be saved? If I lose my God given righteousness each time I sin?

You're not the only who wants to know.

 

[bekkilyn]

Salvation through works of law is not the gospel. Anyone can write paragraphs of anything about anything and pepper it with out-of-context bible verses to "prove" what it is saying, but if it's not proclaiming that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, it is false. Do not be deceived.

 

[listed]

SIN is breaking and of God's 10 commandments (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20) You have been answered indeed but you did not like the answers provided with the scriptures so you do not believe it. Unrepentant SIN will indeed keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom (only some of the scriptures provided above).

Please explain how you're in compliance with the 4th commandment .

 

[listed]

UNREPENTANT SIN WILL KEEP YOU OUT OF GOD’S KINGDOM

We are talking about unrepentant SIN however and how it will keep you out of God's Kingdom. If we do not repent of our SINS and our faith does not work by love that produces the fruit of obedience you WILL be lost. The fruit of Love is the Gift of God in those that walk in His Spirit and a sign that they are the true believers because they follow God's Word by faith in love.

Is repenting and continued same sin truly repentance? Aren't you excluding yourself from God's kingdom?

For example God's Word says...........................

Hebrews 10
26, For IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
27, BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGEMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

Why don't you hear these verses?

Hebrews 6
4, For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8, But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Oh my!

All my comments are slanted to being required to keep the law. the Christian isn't obliged to that covenant and therefore can't be sinning while not submitting to it.

 

[listed]

Do you choose the truth?

ACTS 15

Your mistake is that you and some others look at Acts 15 and interpret the chapter as referring to God's Law (10 commandments) when it does not even mention them. What you do not read however in Acts 15 is that the context and chapter of your scripture is talking about circumcision and the laws of Moses as a means of salvation which were types pointing to Jesus v1.

The ten commandments are also known as the law and the law of Moses. John 1:17

 

[listed]

UNREPENTANT SIN WILL KEEP YOU OUT OF GOD'S KINGDOM

All who hear His voice know the true Shepard because he knows them by name and they know him and hear His Voice (the Word) and follow Him because he calls them through love and they love him and know him.

SIN will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom. We can all choose to believe God's Word or not. God's Word will be the judge in the last days (John 12:47-48). God's Sheep hear His Voice (His Word) and His calling, Many are called but few are chosen because men loved darkness rather then light (the Word) because their deeds were evil (sin).

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

This says it all:

John 10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

 

[listed]

Taking the scriptures literally is too large and complicated a topic for me to get tangled up with at the moment but I see you have made the same error with 2Timothy3:16. Paul refers to the OT which Christ has authenticated also. Paul's writings included in the NT cannon by Church fathers under the supervision of a Roman Emperor; you may accept their authority were as I do not. In the OT a lot of books contain words like "the sovereign Lord has spoken" or that God has spoken can be derived from the text; there are a couple of books that do not have God speaking; Ruth is such a book but it is claimed Ruth contains an overview of the plan of salvation.

Even when scripture is God breathed it can still be interfered with by men; let the reader beware.

Since you say you don't believe the NT is Scripture and there's no Christianity wtih out it why are you a non believer posting in the Christians only section?