Why Believers are not under the Old Covenant Law of Moses

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bekkilyn

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but i said NOT do good works

You said, "can one be a follower of Jesus and not do works of the law?"

I said, "Yes."

For example, one can decide never to get circumcised and yet still enter heaven because circumcision is not a requirement for salvation.

Now as far as "good works" go as opposed to "works of the law", a follower of Jesus will have the Holy Spirit within and the Holy Spirit will produce good works through the believer. Good works are not something *we* do in order to earn salvation. Good works are something *he* does through us.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
 
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sparow

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Taking SOME of the Scriptures literally (some are not literal) is the foundation of good and proper Bible understanding through correct exegesis. It is essential to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone who debates Bible issues should take the time to do it right.[

I made no "error" with 2 Timothy 3:16. This is a literal passage regarding ALL Scripture, including Yeshua's New Covenant commands and the words of Paul.

16 All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.



I accept the entire Scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation as
All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.

BTW, the book of the Bible quoting the specific words G-d speaking, contain G-d's words according to the entire Scriptures as they are all breathed out by HIM.

If you do not accept the entire Scriptures are from G-d, there is no foundation to engage in Biblical discussion.



Since Scripture is G-d breathed, it is HIS and nothing can be interfered with. He is holy, as are His words and only those who interpret wrongly are the problem, not G-d. Let the reader beware of those rejecting the holiness, purity and truth of G-d's word in its entirety.

Most Christians do what you do, but there is a narrow path that leads to life that few find, I hope you find it.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Most Christians do what you do, but there is a narrow path that leads to life that few find, I hope you find it.
How many is few. I think that it is about total people on Earth. How many of all human beings.

Why are you using this verse against a believer?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I choose to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. You cannot be saved by works of law, whether it be by observing a Saturday Sabbath, wearing tassels on your clothes, or getting circumcised. The grace of Jesus Christ *is* the only way.

So do I. Like I said, NOBODY has been saying that they are saved other than by grace. What I said was that grace and Law are NOT mutually exclusive.
 
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FreeAtLast

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Most Christians do what you do, but there is a narrow path that leads to life that few find, I hope you find it.

I already have found the ONLY right narrow path. Honestly. I am a born again Believer in Yeshua, I believe He is G-d, that He came to fulfill the Scriptures as the Messiah, He forgave my sins by the power of His blood and His grace and He filled me with His Holy Spirit to help me walk in His commands under His New Covenant. By faith in Yeshua as G-d, His grace and His Word, I am saved and have eternal life.

I entered through the narrow gate /door who is YESHUA. I pray you too enter through Him to eternal life.

Those who follow YESHUA's commands in the New Covenant are on the narrow path.

John 14:23-24 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘L-rd, L-rd,’ and do not do what I say?

7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


No where does He say to follow the Old Covenant Law to be saved, or the narrow path. Only through Yeshua can we find eternal life.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The Old Covenant was only for the Hebrews/Jews. The Old Covenant was a people/tribe covenant, not open to everyone.

Hence, Jesus saying that He came for the Jews. Because the Jews were the ones promised a Messiah. After His death, it opened a New Covenant for all.

The New Covenant of His blood. He had to die to have that shed blood thingy.

People need to understand the Bible basics, milk drinking before meat eating

Again, you did not say anything to address my post. It WAS open to anyone who wanted to follow the God of Israel. There were lots of converts. The new covenant is the same, for Israel. Gentiles are grafted into it. Looks like you need some milk...
 
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ToBeLoved

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Again, you did not say anything to address my post. It WAS open to anyone who wanted to follow the God of Israel. There were lots of converts. The new covenant is the same, for Israel. Gentiles are grafted into it. Looks like you need some milk...
No there were not 'lots of converts' to the Old Covenant. The Hebrews were told to separate themselves and it was not an open door policy. Someone had to have a definite reason for wanting to convert and they did it fully and there were NOT a lot of them.

The New Covenant was never a tribal/people Covenant in the first place so has no bearing. The New Covenant was never closed. It was always an open door.

What are your verses that substantiate saying that there were a lot of converts to the Old Covenant? Bible verses please.
 
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Doug Melven

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but God figures if we do, and as long as they ask with sincerity, they will be forgiven
Please show me where this is in the Bible?
Think about the 7x70 clause which is in the Bible.
Peter asked Jesus how many times should I forgive someone? Seven?
Jesus replied, "Not seven times, but seventy times seven".
If you need to forgive one person 490 times, and Jesus said we should, do you honestly think they repented the first 489 times.
The 7x70 clause is to show how we should forgive and how God forgives us.
I would imagine there would come a point somewhere in that 490 times where you would not require that person to ask. You would just forgive as Jesus forgave us.
Jesus forgave us long before we committed a single sin or even drew a breath.
Colossians 2:13 Having forgiven you all trespasses.
2 Cor 5:19 Not imputing there trespasses unto them.
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.
You guys elevate the 7th day Sabbath to a point Jesus did not.
You make it burdensome by saying if you don't keep it, you are not saved.
What happened to "I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more?"
Grace and law are mutually exclusive,
John 1:17 The law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses, Moses gave the 10 Commandments to the people. That is why the 10 Commandments are called "The Law of Moses".

Galatians is a great study. You should check out why it was written for starters.

It was one of the 10 HIS FATHER gave us. I am not making it burdensome, you are. Again, NOBODY has said it is salvatory. I know quite well the law as well as Galatians and Romans (something YOU should read). You keep repeating things that NOBODY has said and then answering your own comments.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I'll bounce off just that one to get started here.

To me it's a simple as your verse there when it comes to sin we are willing to repent of, and even if we repeat that sin/sinning, there is the 7X70 clause. Most won't require that clause, or not so much anyway, but God figures if we do, and as long as they ask with sincerity, they will be forgiven. So pretty simple stuff there, and actually not a new concept at all, Atheist, Christians whoever often go with, "just make a genuine effort" and you'll be fine. To me that's all the forgiveness process is about, a genuine effort. One that should be taken very seriously and has a process we must follow, but still, just that. Not complicated at all.

However, there are written rules, they are written in the commandments, they are written again in several lists throughout the NT that if we choose a lifestyle of sin, either just blatantly, or we rely on some made up theology, that some actually do say allows them to sin all they like, unrepentant, without asking forgiveness (because Christ already died for those sins is their excuse) we are going to be in big trouble.

Some say, I" don't need a set of rules", well evidently God had a different idea there, made evident by scripture/his word, and just to mention a very few, Christs Sheep/Goat parable, and the many lists of sin throughout the NT, we cannot do, or we will not see the kingdom of God . Their points are undeniable regardless how some choose to try to change their meaning. They cover proving our faith and that we should not live a life of unrepentant sin, do or die.

Please read the scripture below, which we've posted for the umpteenth time on these boards, and tell me those are not written rules we need to follow? Show me how the message is the least bit confusing in any one of them? Or where it so much as indicates those people the warning is given too can't be anyone who does those things, whether they claim they are saved or not, or whatever the spin?

Again this post is directed in general, and all questions are rhetorical, but it's fine to address them if you like.

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3-6 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No sexually immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

Rev. 22:12-16 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
You are confusing how often we are to forgive other human beings with how our Father in Heaven forgives us.

So which are you talking about?
 
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FreeAtLast

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The new covenant is the same, for Israel. Gentiles are grafted into it.

Not true. Gentiles are grafted NOT into Israel at all, but into YESHUA, the holy root. Gentiles are not Israel, but Gentiles can come to faith in Yeshua and are born again and serve ALONGSIDE Believing Israel (the natural branches). Gentiles do not become the natural branches, but are grafted in alongside them.

Romans 11:17-24
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if G-d did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but G-d's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for G-d has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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No there were not 'lots of converts' to the Old Covenant. The Hebrews were told to separate themselves and it was not an open door policy. Someone had to have a definite reason for wanting to convert and they did it fully and there were NOT a lot of them.

The New Covenant was never a tribal/people Covenant in the first place so has no bearing. The New Covenant was never closed. It was always an open door.

What are your verses that substantiate saying that there were a lot of converts to the Old Covenant? Bible verses please.

Then you do not know Hebrew history. Everywhere in the OT it says that anyone even living with them were to do certain things. You need to read ROMANS.
 
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FreeAtLast

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Then you do not know Hebrew history. Everywhere in the OT it says that anyone even living with them were to do certain things. You need to read ROMANS.

Actually you do to fully understand the grafting in. I just posted this above, maybe you missed it.

Not true. Gentiles are grafted NOT into Israel at all, but into YESHUA, the holy root. Gentiles are not Israel, but Gentiles can come to faith in Yeshua and are born again and serve ALONGSIDE Believing Israel (the natural branches). Gentiles do not become the natural branches, but are grafted in alongside them.

Romans 11:17-24
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if G-d did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but G-d's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for G-d has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Not true. Gentiles are grafted NOT into Israel at all, but into YESHUA, the holy root. Gentiles are not Israel, but Gentiles can come to faith in Yeshua and are born again and serve ALONGSIDE Believing Israel (the natural branches). Gentiles do not become the natural branches, but are grafted in alongside them.

Romans 11:17-24
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if G-d did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but G-d's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for G-d has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

What do you think the tree is that the branches are grafted into? Israel (true believing Israel) is the cultivated olive tree with natural branches...Gentiles are wild. Yeshua is the king of Israel.
 
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Lulav

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