Why Believers are not under the Old Covenant Law of Moses

[LoveGodsWord]

Nobody is saying that the law is not valid. We are saying it is not for believers.
In order to use the law in a lawful manner, it should be used for the purpose for which it was designed. That is to expose sin. An unbeliever needs to know that they have broken God's law and are in need of a Savior. Unless they acknowledge that they are a sinner, they will not come to Christ. To teach the law to a believer is using the law in an unlawful manner.

So according to what you have written God's Word is not true?

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, SO SPEAK AND SO DO AS THEY THAT SHALL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

and again.............

1 Peter 4
17, For the time is come that JUDGEMENT MUST BEGIN WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18, And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY SINNER STAND?

God's Law does not disappear when you are a believer it plays the very same role as when you believed and that is to point out sin. All of us will the judged by it because it is the standard of sin and righteousness (James 2:11; Proverbs 119:172). The only difference is that in Christ you are no longer "under the Law" convicted and guilty of SIN because Jesus has paid the price for you if you believe his Word and has cleansed you from sin and freed you from SIN (Romans 2:12; 3:19; 1 John 1:9).

If you SIN again when you are a believer then you are once again "Under the Law" guilty before God of SIN and need to repent and seek Gods' forgiveness (1 John 2:1; Romans 2:12; 3:191 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:26-27; 31)

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[Doug Melven]

And that's all there is to it? Is that really biblical?

People can and I assure you, will, do all kinds of things with, "all we have to do is love God."

And I mean bad interpretation and resulting actions.

Those are Jesus' commandments.
If we have a relationship with Him we will do what he wishes.
Psalm 37:4-5 If we delight ourselves in Him, he will give us the desires of our heart. And if we commit our way to Him, He will bring it to pass. People who have a relationship don't need a set of rules to know what the one they love wants.

For your post #139 are you actually saying that we are justified by works? That's what it looked like.

 

[Doug Melven]

So according to what you have written God's Word is not true?

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, SO SPEAK AND SO DO AS THEY THAT SHALL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

and again.............

1 Peter 4
17, For the time is come that JUDGEMENT MUST BEGIN WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18, And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY SINNER STAND?

God's Law does not disappear when you are a believer it plays the very same role as when you believed and that is to point out sin. All of us will the judged by it because it is the standard of sin and righteousness (James 2:11; Proverbs 119:172). The only difference is that in Christ you are no longer "under the Law" convicted and guilty of SIN because Jesus has paid the price for you if you believe his Word and has cleansed you from sin and freed you from SIN (Romans 2:12; 3:19; 1 John 1:9).

If you SIN again when you are a believer then you are once again "Under the Law" guilty before God of SIN and need to repent and seek Gods' forgiveness (1 John 2:1; Romans 2:12; 3:191 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:26-27; 31)

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

So what do you do with verses like 1 Tim 1: 8-10 and Romans 10:4

Saying we are not under the law until we break it makes absolutely no sense.
That would be the same as saying the Israelites were not under the law till they broke it.
But, we know they were under the law.
Deut 28:15
But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Are you saying we are the same as them?

 

[sparow]

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

I disagree with your proposition which is based on presumptions; you pit Paul against Christ and assign a higher authority to Paul. Paul kept the law fastidiously including the feasts, and for him to mean what you imply by out of context quotes make Paul appear to be a hypocrite.

<< The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)>>

What is an unbearable yoke? Is not committing adultery an unbearable yoke; is not committing murder an unbearable yoke; is honouring ones parents an unbearable yoke; keeping the first four commandments are unbearable for most. There is an unbearable yoke which is the consequences of breaking the covenant which will be lifted after that great and terrible day of the Lord.

When Paul says "the Law" he could be talking about the Law of God, but mostly he is talking about the Law of the Pharisees. Matt. 23 tells what both Jesus and Paul reject.

Matthew 23:2-5 (NKJV)
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.


WE are under the Law of God and the Law of God is the same for the Old Covenant as it is for the New. The Ten commandments are an abstract of THE covenant, both old and new. There are many ways of describing the difference between the old covenant and the new; simplistically the old compared to the new is like a motor bike compared to a limousine; one is better but they both take you to the same place.

More to the point, the new covenant is the fulfilment of the old; the new covenant is where Jesus confirms the covenant, that is He translates promise into reality; the promise of a King, the kingdom of God and eternal life. He was cut of in the middle of the seventieth week and still has half a week of confirming the covenant to go. Most people have abrogated the covenant, given the seventieth week and the confirming of the covenant to Satan; can you imagine the ramification of this.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Those are Jesus' commandments.
If we have a relationship with Him we will do what he wishes.
Psalm 37:4-5 If we delight ourselves in Him, he will give us the desires of our heart. And if we commit our way to Him, He will bring it to pass. People who have a relationship don't need a set of rules to know what the one they love wants.

But you left out the part where Jesus said to follow the 10 commandments. That's why I asked if that was all there was to it. I must have repeated that at least ten times in the last week. Jesus does in fact tell the rich man that, the rich man that wanted to know how to attain everlasting life....Keep the commandments.

And of course it's about love, if we have true, and absolute love, the commandments will be kept as they all hang on love of one another and having no other God. But to say oh, "all we need is love", allows us to make anything out of that we like, and again, people will take that and run with it so the commandments do, and need to apply. Some of the meanest people I know are "Christian" faith only, nothing else required....and no offense to the Atheist, but they are far worse than someone with no God in some cases....I've seen it...far worse.

For your post #139 are you actually saying that we are justified by works? That's what it looked like.

Faith and works. You just said yourself, if we have a relation with him we will do as he wishes....what else would he have to do, after the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats to make clear his wishes....yell at the guys he was sending to hell?

I mean what am I supposed to say here? Black is black and white is white, Christ removed any gray area right there in that scripture yet, some still don't/won't get it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So what do you do with verses like 1 Tim 1: 8-10 and Romans 10:4

Believe them what is difficult?

Let's look at them..............

1 Timothy 1
8, But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a RIGHTEOUS man, but for the LAWLESS and DISOBEDIENT, for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS, for UNHOLY and PROFANE, for MURDERERS of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

This agrees with what has already been written......... If you SIN you break God's Law (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). If you SIN once you become a believer you need to repent and seek God's forgiveness (1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13). God's Law gives all a knowledge of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172), without God's Law you do not know what SIN is.

Romans 10
4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

God's Law points out SIN and points you to the SIN bearer for cleansing and forgiveness (1 John 1:9; Galatians 3:24-25). Christ is the end of the Law for all those that seek forgiveness of SIN. The scripture does not mean that there is no more God's Law (10 commandments). This would conflict with more than 1300 other scriptures that say the opposite.

Saying we are not under the law until we break it makes absolutely no sense. That would be the same as saying the Israelites were not under the law till they broke it.

It depends on what reference you are referring to to be "Under the Law" for example; I am referring to the scriptures that say..........................

To be "Under the Law" means to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner because we do not know what sin is without God’s Law because sin is the transgression of God’s Law and it gives us a knowledge of what sin is and leads us to Jesus (1 John 3:4; Rom 3:20; Rom 7:7; Gal 3:24)

Rom 2:12-13
"All who SIN apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and ALL WHO SIN UNDER THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Rom 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are ALL UNDER SIN

You make the mistake in interpreting the scriptures that say to be "Under the Law" means that there is now no more penalty for SIN for those that continue in SIN despite the scriptures saying...............

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

There is no more penalty for sin however for those that are in Christ and believe and follow His Word. If we are not believing and following His Word we are not In Him who loves all and have neither seen him or known him (1 John 3:6) and still in our SINS.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[D. A. Taylor]

Your interpretation of God's Law (10 commandments) and the Mosaic laws seem to be mixed up which has led you to a wrong conclusion. It is true we are not under the Old Covenant laws of Moses. These are nailed to the cross because they were pointing as Shadows to Jesus.

You do not seem to understand however the difference between the laws of Moses and God's Law (10 commandments) which are the work of God and the standard of sin and righteousness in the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Judgement to come.

What is the difference and roles of God's Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses .................................

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose; reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)

(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose; was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the saviour of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).

God's Law is forever and the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come.....

The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5). '

In the New Covenant; God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Romans 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4) Obedience to God’s Law is the fruit of faith that works by love and fulfills God's Law in us who walk by faith and not by sight and walking in God's Spirit one does not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Faith in God's Word is the power of God unto salvation. Salvation is by faith alone, it is the great gift of God to those who walk in the Spirit who have faith in the Word of creation to live a life of Godliness and Holiness. If the Son shall make you free you shall be free indeed...... Salvation is from sin not in sin... If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12). Please friend do not take my word for it please pray and ask God and check the scriptures provided here to see if it is true or not for yourself....

So yep we are not under the Mosaic laws that were shadows of things to come but God's Law (10 commandments) are forever and the standard of what sin is and righteousness (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Psalms 119:172; Ecclesiastes 3:14).

Let's now reason with your interpretation that God's Law has now been ABOLISHED........

It is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law (10 commandments) we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Romans 2:12).

That did not work out to well now did it? You may need to go back to God's Word in prayerful study and examine what you believe as there is too many scriptures that do not agree with you that God's Law (10 commandments) is Abolished.

Who should we believe God or Man? The teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we believe God or man?

Well, I think it best to believe what God told us through His Old Covenant prophets and Jesus Christ:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments" (Exodus 34:27-28).

"And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone" (Deuteronomy 4:13).

"And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt" (I Kings 8:21).

"And in it have I put the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, that he made with the children of Israel" (II Chronicles 6:11).

"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant" (Hebrews 9:1-4).

Then Jesus gave us some much-needed perspective about the Ten Commandments:

"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets ..." (Matthew 22:35-40).

And specifically notice how these two "commandments" that are not part of the Ten Commandments.

Finally, look at what the apostle James had to say about God's Royal Law:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well" (James 2:8).

James called the command to "love your neighbor as yourself" God's Royal Law. The Greek for "royal" is "bas-il-ee-kos'" (Strong's #937), which literally means belonging to the sovereign. Now consider that the Sovereign is God. So by using this particular Greek word, James literally wrote "the law that belongs to the Sovereign (God)."

Now think: Isn't the law that "belongs to God" simply God's law?

God's Royal Law of Love describes what emanates from God's being and controls all His conduct. The Ten Commandments were hung below this Royal Law for the unconverted Israelites, because they were incapable of regulating their lives with God's love. But Christians are capable of living by God's Royal Law, because they have the holy spirit.

 

[Doug Melven]

In the sheep and goats parable Jesus said to those who did not do the works, "Depart from me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you". They had no relationship with Jesus.
To His sheep, He said, "
25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" Then the list of works they did.

We do the works because we are saved, not to get saved or stay saved.
Ephesians 2:8-10 Saved by grace through faith, then we can do the works God prepared for us.
Galatians 3:1-3
3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Also Paul is not piited against Christ in the Scriptures Freeatlast posts.
God/Jesus said in Matt 6:14-15 that if you we forgave others there trespasses, The Father would then forgive our trespasses. If we don't forgive others, we won't be forgiven.
God inspired Paul to write Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Christ forgave us, so we can forgive others. In between the 2 Scriptures Jesus died on the cross and rose again.

 

[Doug Melven]

Believe them what is difficult?

Let's look at them..............

1 Timothy 1
8, But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a RIGHTEOUS man, but for the LAWLESS and DISOBEDIENT, for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS, for UNHOLY and PROFANE, for MURDERERS of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

This agrees with what has already been written......... If you SIN you break God's Law (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). If you SIN once you become a believer you need to repent and seek God's forgiveness (1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13). God's Law gives all a knowledge of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172), without God's Law you do not know what SIN is.

Romans 10
4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

God's Law points out SIN and points you to the SIN bearer for cleansing and forgiveness (1 John 1:9; Galatians 3:24-25). Christ is the end of the Law for all those that seek forgiveness of SIN. The scripture does not mean that there is no more God's Law (10 commandments). This would conflict with more than 1300 other scriptures that say the opposite.



It depends on what reference you are referring to to be "Under the Law" for example; I am referring to the scriptures that say..........................

To be "Under the Law" means to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner because we do not know what sin is without God’s Law because sin is the transgression of God’s Law and it gives us a knowledge of what sin is and leads us to Jesus (1 John 3:4; Rom 3:20; Rom 7:7; Gal 3:24)

Rom 2:12-13
"All who SIN apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and ALL WHO SIN UNDER THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Rom 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are ALL UNDER SIN

You make the mistake in interpreting the scriptures that say to be "Under the Law" means that there is now no more penalty for SIN for those that continue in SIN despite the scriptures saying...............

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

There is no more penalty for sin however for those that are in Christ and believe and follow His Word. If we are not believing and following His Word we are not In Him who loves all and have neither seen him or known him (1 John 3:6) and still in our SINS.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

To briefly summarize your belief. Let me know if I am wrong.

We who believe are made the righteousness of God in Christ as soon as we sin we are no longer righteous but are in need of forgiveness.

I pray to God Almighty I got that wrong. If that is so, nobody gets eternal life because nobody, not even you, can keep God's law to love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul mind and strength all the time.
You can only hope that you repented of all your sins before you die. And you may have committed a sin in ignorance and not live to repent of it.

And it would also make God a liar because He said, "I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more".

 

[christopheralan88]

Yeshua FULFILLED the law, not changed. The law required (for any sin etc) a blood sacrifice and as most know, the sacrifice once a year as atonement for one's sins for the next year. This was done in looking forward to the Messiah to come, believing and trusting God's Word. Once Messiah came and became the ULTIMATE BLOOD ATONEMENT SACRIFICE, it was finished---the law was fulfilled and finished. He didn't change it, it finished it so that it was no longer necessary.

Please show me a prophecy that the Law/Torah will be changed. We have to have a foundation in the Tanakh in order to understand the "New Testament". Jesus can certainly "fulfill" the Law in that the Law pointed to Him, but that does not mean it is done away with or changed.

I believe you are referring to the Passover sacrifice. Understand that Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts (Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Shavout/Pentecost) during His first coming, but He has yet to fulfill the fall feasts. Those will be fulfilled upon His second coming/return.

Also, consider that Ezekiel 40-48 make it clear that the sacrifices, Feast Days, circumcision, and the Levitical priesthood will all be present in the future Temple, which has not been built yet.

Some noteworthy points about the Ezekiel 40-48 Temple are that:

1) the glory of God fills this temple (Ezekiel 44:4) (it is His dwelling place)
2) those who are uncircumcised in flesh or heart (regardless of whether they are a child of Israel or a foreigner) will not enter the temple (Ezekiel 44:9) (but of course, you can become circumcised in both heart and flesh and then enter the temple)
3) the Levitical priesthood will return (Ezekiel 44:10-31)
4) Passover and the Festival of Unleavened Bread is celebrated (Ezekiel 45:21)
5) the Festival of Tabernacles is celebrated (Ezekiel 45:25)
5) sacrifices/offerings will be done once again (Ezekiel 44:27-29, 45:17, 42:13-14, 42:22).

Remember that almost all of these verses I've quoted above are written as God's direct quotes to Ezekiel. God is literally saying these things directly to Ezekiel.

Please don't think that I'm saying that Jesus was not your ultimate sacrifice by which you are saved. That's not what I'm saying by quoting Ezekiel 40-48. You are saved by His sacrifice. In my opinion, if our sin is wiped away/forgiven, then we won't have to do sin offerings - but the nations apart from Israel (Israel includes Gentile believers) will. Instead, we will be allowed to make thanksgiving/peace offerings to God (Leviticus 3) in the the Temple described in Ezekiel 40-48.

 

[FreeAtLast]

I disagree with your proposition which is based on presumptions; you pit Paul against Christ and assign a higher authority to Paul. Paul kept the law fastidiously including the feasts, and for him to mean what you imply by out of context quotes make Paul appear to be a hypocrite.

Goodness gracious, I did no such thing! LOL!

Read. The. Scriptures. Posted. Simple as that. I did not write them, G-d did. Tell G-d you "disagree with HIS proposition which is based on presumptions; and HE pits Paul against Christ and assign a higher authority to Paul. Paul kept the law fastidiously including the feasts, and for him to mean what G-d says imply by out of context quotes make Paul appear to be a hypocrite. [/quote]

 

[sparow]

In the sheep and goats parable Jesus said to those who did not do the works, "Depart from me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you". They had no relationship with Jesus.
To His sheep, He said, "
25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" Then the list of works they did.

We do the works because we are saved, not to get saved or stay saved.
Ephesians 2:8-10 Saved by grace through faith, then we can do the works God prepared for us.
Galatians 3:1-3
3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Also Paul is not piited against Christ in the Scriptures Freeatlast posts.
God/Jesus said in Matt 6:14-15 that if you we forgave others there trespasses, The Father would then forgive our trespasses. If we don't forgive others, we won't be forgiven.
God inspired Paul to write Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Christ forgave us, so we can forgive others. In between the 2 Scriptures Jesus died on the cross and rose again.

We are advised to forgive those who trespass against us and this determines who we are; holding grudges is detrimental in many ways.

Freeatlast did pit Paul against Christ; he used Paul to justify abrogating the Law when Jesus said keep the commandments and that nothing may be changed in the commandments.

 

[bekkilyn]

Hope no one depending on the law for salvation is wearing linen and wool woven together.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Please show me a prophecy that the Law/Torah will be changed.

Easy peasy. Jeremiah 31:31-34.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the L-rd, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the L-rd. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the L-rd,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the L-rd. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

1) "Behold the days are coming..." The Old Covenant (and law) had already come, this was a NEW Covenant coming.

2) "...when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah..."
NEW COVENANT

3) "... not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt..."

Very clear. prophecy. The NEW Covenant (not OLD), NOT LIKE the covenant made with ISrael at Sinai. What was that? The OLD Covenant, Law of Moses.

4) "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,"
After what days? After the days that Yeshua gives us His NEW Covenant.

5) "I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. "
That was only via the Holy Spirit, Who was given by Yeshua AFTER the New Covenant was given at the cross.

6) "For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Because no more sacrifice would ever be required after Yeshua fulfilled the Old Covenant Law of Moses by His death, only THEN would this prophecy some to pass.

Even Yeshua said so, in His own words, see Luke 22:20

 

[FreeAtLast]

Freeatlast did pit Paul against Christ; he used Paul to justify abrogating the Law when Jesus said keep the commandments and that nothing may be changed in the commandments.

BE very careful not to insult, goad or flame other members. See the rules of this board.

 

[sparow]

Goodness gracious, I did no such thing! LOL!

Read. The. Scriptures. Posted. Simple as that. I did not write them, G-d did. Tell G-d you "disagree with HIS proposition which is based on presumptions; and HE pits Paul against Christ and assign a higher authority to Paul. Paul kept the law fastidiously including the feasts, and for him to mean what G-d says imply by out of context quotes make Paul appear to be a hypocrite.

[/QUOTE]


I don't mean to be argumentative but you seem to have missed my point, which is Paul's verses out of the context in which Paul used them mean nothing or else assume a false meaning, that is not what Paul meant. Paul's epistle are private communications to specific people and are one side of a conversation which further diminishes their meaning for us. Paul is a touchy subject involving forum rules which limit what I can say. In the case of Paul, God has given me nothing to disagree with; only Paul testifies of Paul.

In the case of Jesus there are two witnesses, Jesus and His Father, Father as a witness refers primarily to prophesy.

 

[christopheralan88]

Easy peasy. Jeremiah 31:31-34.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the L-rd, when I will make a new covenantwith the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the L-rd. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the L-rd,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the L-rd. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

1) "Behold the days are coming..." The Old Covenant (and law) had already come, this was a NEW Covenant coming.

2) "...when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah..."
NEW COVENANT

3) "... not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt..."

Very clear. prophecy. The NEW Covenant (not OLD), NOT LIKE the covenant made with ISrael at Sinai. What was that? The OLD Covenant, Law of Moses.

4) "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,"
After what days? After the days that Yeshua gives us His NEW Covenant.

5) "I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. "
That was only via the Holy Spirit, Who was given by Yeshua AFTER the New Covenant was given at the cross.

6) "For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Because no more sacrifice would ever be required after Yeshua fulfilled the Old Covenant Law of Moses by His death, only THEN would this prophecy some to pass.

Even Yeshua said so, in His own words, see Luke 22:20

And the part that says that the Law has changed or is done away with? Where does it say that? The Law/Torah as referenced in Jeremiah 31:33 makes no mention of an altered Law/Torah, but is a reference to what the Law/Torah has always been previous to Jeremiah - the first five books of the Bible in it's entirety.

Also, please explain how God can be making a "new" covenant (as in it makes the original covenant old/done away with) if the original covenant is described as an "everlasting" covenant in Genesis 17:7 and God does not change His mind (Numbers 23:19).

Given that the original covenant is an everlasting covenant as God says in Genesis 17:7, it makes more sense to interpret "chadash" - the Hebrew word that is translated to "new" in Jeremiah 31:31 - as "fresh" or "renewed". See the definition for "chadash" in the link below (I don't know why the link shows up as Genesis 1:1 - clicking on the link doesn't take you to Genesis 1:1):

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

 

[christopheralan88]

Hope no one depending on the law for salvation is wearing linen and wool woven together.

Not much is made today with both linen and wool. I check the clothes I buy for this combination and have yet to find anything that has it in the last two years.

Please don't make the mistake that because someone is arguing for keeping the Torah/Law that they are relying on the Torah/Law for their salvation. Almost everyone I've met would say that they rely on Jesus for their salvation (as He covers their sin), but they evidence their salvation by their works (James 2:18).

Just wanted to clarify.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello D. A. Taylor,
So nice to meet you. Comments to your post below…………….

Well, I think it best to believe what God told us through His Old Covenant prophets and Jesus Christ:

Yes me too let’s get to it……………..

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments" (Exodus 34:27-28).

v10-27 are also part of the Old Covenant describing the annual festivals you left them out

"And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone" (Deuteronomy 4:13).

"And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt" (I Kings 8:21).

"And in it have I put the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, that he made with the children of Israel" (II Chronicles 6:11).

The 10 commandment are indeed the STANDARD of the Old Covenant for SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS who has said otherwise? I think what you have overlooked however and where your post will fall apart is that God’s 10 commandments is not ALL of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant included God’s Law (10 commandments) written on stone and spoken by God himself to His people AS WELL AS THE Mosaic laws written in a book by Moses which were the prescription for SIN and placed in the side of the Ark. Both had different roles and purposes which we will touch on in a moment.

Before we do that let’s look at the scriptures you left out in regards to the other part of the Old Covenant which had an equally important role…………………..

Exodus 24 (KJV)
5, And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
6, And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
7, AND HE TOOK THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT AND READ IN THE AUDIENCE OF THE PEOPLE: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
8, And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, BEHOLD THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

Numbers 25
11, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12, Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him MY COVENANT of peace:
13, And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even THE COVENANT OF AN EVERLASTING PRIESTHOOD; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 29
21, And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS LAW:

Deuteronomy 31
24, And it came to pass, when MOSES HAD MADE AN END OF WRITING THE WORDS OF THIS BOOK, UNTIL THEY WERE FINISHED,
25, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26, TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, AND PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee

The Ark of the Covenant was the home of the covenant to God and His people and included both (1) God’s Law (10 commandments) written on stone and (2) The laws of Moses written in book. Together these made up the Old Covenant ………..

Deuteronomy 10
8, At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day.

The God’s Law (10 commandments) on two tables of stone were placed inside because they were part of the Old Covenant….............

5, And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.

The Mosaic law written in a book was also placed in the side of the Ark because it was part of the Old Covenant……………...................

Deuteronomy 31:26
TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, AND PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD your God that it may be there for a witness against thee

So is God’s Law (10 commandments) only the Old Covenant? Absolutely NOT! The Old Covenant includes both the God’s Law (10 commandments) that were written on stone and the laws of Moses that were written in a book.

What was the purpose of (1) God’s Law and the Mosaic laws written in the book………….

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose; reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)

(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose; was the prescriptive cure for sin if someone sinned and included all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the saviour of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).

More scriptures on this subject here linked, showing the Shadows of the Mosaic laws linking Old Testament and New Testament scriptures...........

Just as the Mosaic laws were temporary pointing to Jesus, God's Law is forever and the standard of the Old Covenant the New Covenant and the Judgement to come......

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5).

"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant" (Hebrews 9:1-4).

These scriptures support what is being discussed here and that is the Mosaic laws where shadows pointing to things to come the earthly Sanctuary on earth built around the Mosaic laws for SIN offereing were only a copy of the Heavenly…..

Hebrews 8
1, Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2, A minister of the sanctuary,1 and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3, For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4, For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law
5, Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Then Jesus gave us some much-needed perspective about the Ten Commandments:
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets ..." (Matthew 22:35-40). And specifically notice how these two "commandments" that are not part of the Ten Commandments.

You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because they are connected to each other. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear.

Let's have a look................................................

What does Jesus say when he talk about the commandments. Jesus is quoting from Old testament scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.................

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40, ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Let's get clearer......................................................

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. <Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God>

Well Jesus makes it very clear that what he is talking about it is the 10 commandments of God's Law.

What about James................................................................

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
11, FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Well James makes it very clear what he is talking about when he talks about the Royal Law of love. He is talking about the 10 commandments. So Jesus and James both agree that they are talking about God's 10 commandments which also include the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.

What about Paul? He wrote a lot of books in God's Word...........................

Romans 13
8, Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
9, For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Paul makes it very clear what he is talking about as well when he is talking about God's Law. It seems like Jesus, James and Paul all agree together what it is they are referring to when talking about God's Law. They are all referring to God's 10 commandments which includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:1-17)

So now that God's Word shows us what it is referring to. No need to guess, what are talking about, God’s Law of Love is God's 10 commandments. It is only through Faith that works by love that anyone can walk in the Spirit which produces the fruit of obedience because love is the fulfilling of God’s Law in those that walk by faith and not by sight.

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:26-27; 31)

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[Kenny'sID]

In the sheep and goats parable Jesus said to those who did not do the works, "Depart from me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you". They had no relationship with Jesus. "

A couple of questions for you.

Is this the "They were never saved to begin with" part?

If so, does that mean that since they weren't saved, they go to hell, but those that are saved, don't have to do the works/can act just like them, but don't go to Hell?

Aside from those two questions, I need to add, you have no reason to believe those people were any different from anyone who chose not to do the works. Jesus never knew them but they thought they knew him.

The Goats thought they were just fine, jut exactly like anyone who claims no works necessary, and they can act as they want, they are saved by grace/faith alone....in their minds. the Goats deluded themselves, because they didn't wan to do as Christ clearly says we must do....then they are all like...Huh? when Christ calls them on it. It's so clear to me they thought they were saved.

See the goats actually questioned Jesus, something like "hey, what do you mean we didn't take care of you...when didn't we take care of you? See they thought they were just fine, they acted confused they thought they knew Jesus, they pretended to know Jesus, but Jesus never knew them.

They were "workers of iniquity", because in their minds, they didn't have to obey the law, or Christ...remind you of anyone?