Why Vaccinations Shouldn't be Optional

[Zoii]

Under your argument, all those who are vaccinated - like yourself - should be stripped of freedoms then, because you are literally carriers of the disease - not those who haven't been vaccinated.

That simply tells me you have no understanding of disease process, what a carrier actually is, and how the immune response process works in relation to vaccination. If you did wouldnt be indicating that those vaccinated are carriers. By all means participate in a debate but at least make an effort to be informed. What your doing now is just attempting to make a blind argument on zero information or evidence. How am I suppose to respect that.

 

[ananda]

That simply tells me you have no understanding of disease process, what a carrier actually is, and how the immune response process works in relation to vaccination. If you did wouldnt be indicating that those vaccinated are carriers. By all means participate in a debate but at least make an effort to be informed. What your doing now is just attempting to make a blind argument on zero information or evidence. How am I suppose to respect that.

I'm sorry, but as I see it, you are the uninformed individual. You first falsely claimed that there were no studies with scientists who linked autism to vaccines. Now you demonstrate that you are not aware that the vaccinated are disease carriers & spreaders. Here are just a few examples:

• "measles transmission from a twice-vaccinated individual" : Outbreak of Measles Among Persons With Prior Evidence of Immunity, New York City, 2011 | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic
• "measure the shedding patterns of vaccine recipients" : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC228449/pdf/332485.pdf
• "maximum shedding in highly susceptible persons 2–10 days after vaccination" : Comparison of the Safety, Vaccine Virus Shedding, and Immunogenicity of Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A and B, Live Cold-Adapted, Administered to Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)-Infected and Non-HIV-Infected Adults | The Journal of Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic
• "transmission from a vaccinated infant to an older, unvaccinated sibling, resulting in symptomatic rotavirus gastroenteritis that required emergency department care" : http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/2/e438
• "Immune-impaired individuals can become long-term shedders of the virus" : Polio vaccination may continue after wild virus fades
• "Asymptomatic/subclinical infections occur infrequently, but may be associated with substantial amounts of viral shedding" : Comparison of Shedding Characteristics of Seasonal Influenza Virus (Sub)Types and Influenza A(H1N1)pdm09; Germany, 2007–2011
• "When considering influenza in humans, viral shedding is often used as a proxy measure of contagiousness. In a recent meta-analysis of volunteer challenge studies, shedding was found to begin within the first day after inoculation" : Animal Models for Influenza Virus Pathogenesis and Transmission
• "vaccinated individuals can act as asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic carriers and contribute significantly to transmission in the population" : http://www.pnas.org/content/111/2/787.full.pdf
  
• Etc. Etc.

Perhaps it should be the irresponsible, uninformed vaccinators that should be quarantined, and stripped of their freedoms.

 

[dgiharris]

Ultimately, I feel vaccination arguments reduce to several concepts:

#1) Probability. The human brain has a hard time dealing with probability. We naturally think in binary terms, yes or no, white or black, cause and effect. The real world actually doesn't work like that, the universe runs on probability. Yes, you "can" win the lottery but it is unlikely you will win. Unfortunately, that fact doesn't stop millions of us from playing the lottery daily.

#2) Cellular biology. You have to understand how the immune system works and how diseases work and the limits of our current medical technology.

#3) Basics of fluid dynamics. You have to understand "flow" , that is, how things can impact other things. A zombie movie is a good representation of this, one infected zombie ends up infecting two friends, who each infect 2 friends and within a few weeks the entire world is infected...

#4) Individual liberty vs Collective Liberty. You have to understand the boundaries of where individual liberty ends and collective liberty begins.

#5) History. You have to understand and appreciate the magnitude of damage done by plagues of the past. These were real events impacting millions of lives throughout the whole of human history up until just a few generations ago...

#6) Modern Day Global Economics. The world is an insanely small place now. A hundred years ago, 90% of the population probably never strayed more than 20 miles from their homes throughout their entire lifetime. Today, most of us easily interact on a "daily" basis with "someone" who has been to other States or Countries. Similarly, most of us have strayed more than 1,000 miles from our homes on a yearly basis if not more frequently

add up all the above, process it, and it is a no-brainer...

Vaccinations should be mandatory

 

[High Fidelity]

If God is with you; why would you need a vaccine?

I'm so glad that I live in a country founded on protecting my unalienable God given right to be secure in my person.

So you've never, not once in your life, had any form of medical issues, be it a cold or otherwise?

 

[ananda]

Vaccinations should be mandatory

First, take away the legal immunity granted to vaccine manufacturers and bribes for physicians to push vaccines ($400 per child here, for example), and then we might all begin to have a rational, two-way discussion.

 

[PsychoSarah]

First, take away the legal immunity granted to vaccine manufacturers and bribes for physicians to push vaccines ($400 per child here, for example), and then we might all begin to have a rational, two-way discussion.

Literally google search vaccine cost, and you'll find they are quite affordable in all first world countries.

 

[ananda]

Literally google search vaccine cost, and you'll find they are quite affordable in all first world countries.

That is irrelevant to my points regarding legal immunities & bribes.

 

[Almost there]

"My body, my choice"

Re: your tag line. To be fair, if you are going to quote Luke the same way you quoted Buddha, you would have prefaced it thusly (or similarly): πλὴν τοὺς ἐχθρούς μου τούτους τοὺς μὴ θελήσαντάς με βασιλεῦσαι ἐπ’ αὐτοὺς ἀγάγετε ὧδε καὶ κατασφάξατε αὐτοὺς ἔμπροσθέν μου.

 

[ananda]

Re: your tag line. To be fair, if you are going to quote Luke the same way you quoted Buddha, you would have prefaced it thusly (or similarly): πλὴν τοὺς ἐχθρούς μου τούτους τοὺς μὴ θελήσαντάς με βασιλεῦσαι ἐπ’ αὐτοὺς ἀγάγετε ὧδε καὶ κατασφάξατε αὐτοὺς ἔμπροσθέν μου.

Space limitations prevents me from doing so.

 

[super animator]

Three words: men aren't beasts. (I know, its actually five, and counting now, but ignoring the technicalities).

You don't know exactly what it means do you?

 

[super animator]

That has yet to be proven.

"Proven" only exist in the realm of mathematics not science.

 

[ananda]

"Proven" only exist in the realm of mathematics not science.

Or, in the realm of personal experience (in terms of phenomenology, but that's a different topic for a different thread)

 

[jayem]

I haven't met anyone with polio, but I put this down to good sanitation, rather than vaccination.

You can put it down to anything you like. Here's a chart of polio case and death rates from the 1930s to the 80s. IPV is when the inactivated (Salk) polio vaccine was introduced. OPV is the oral (Sabin) polio vaccine. So does this show that good sanitation didn't come along until the early 50s?

Lincolnshire Post-Polio Library [Post-Polio Syndrome: Pathophysiology and Clinical Management]

 

[super animator]

Or, in the realm of personal experience (in terms of phenomenology, but that's a different topic for a different thread)

Why does anyone here care about your stance on this when you have shown to be ignorant on how vaccine works.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'd agree if only your body was affected by that choice. I have an extreme fear of needles, but I get the flu vaccine every year because if I caught the disease and spread it to my immuno-compromised grandmother, she could very well die. My choice impacts her life and recognizing that, I forgo my choice and always get the shot.

Couldn't your grandmother get vaccinated?

 

[jayem]

Sorry....Too many people are damaged or killed by these wonder vaccines...They're not putting that junk into this body. No way!

That's your right as an adult. But it's different regarding children. And would you extend your skepticism to all vaccines in all circumstances?

A hypothetical: Suppose you went camping with your 8 year old daughter. Suppose she was badly bitten--unprovoked--by a raccoon. Which then escaped. Would you refuse to give her anti-rabies vaccine?

 

[ananda]

Why does anyone here care about your stance on this

That's up to each individual to decide. Those who don't care, are free to ignore my posts.

when you have shown to be ignorant on how vaccine works.

I happen to disagree with the non-optional vaccine profits/prophets, their scriptures, their interpretations, and their disciples. I understand that that is probably your choice of religious faith.

It is decidedly not my faith; so, from my perspective, the ignorance belongs to the other side.

 

[super animator]

That's up to each individual to decide.

Quote the entire sentence, not parts so you could quote mine.

I happen to disagree with the non-optional vaccine profits/prophets, their scriptures, their interpretations, and their disciples.

Disagree all you want, you have shown to be anti-science regarding vaccine. You shot your own credibility there.

 

[Circumcised_Heart]

You can put it down to anything you like. Here's a chart of polio case and death rates from the 1930s to the 80s. IPV is when the inactivated (Salk) polio vaccine was introduced. OPV is the oral (Sabin) polio vaccine. So does this show that good sanitation didn't come along until the early 50s?

Lincolnshire Post-Polio Library [Post-Polio Syndrome: Pathophysiology and Clinical Management]

Notice that the downward trends start prior to the introduction of vaccines? Well done on your honesty for posting a trend that defeats your own argument.

 

[Circumcised_Heart]

You don't know exactly what it means do you?

Herd is an inaccurate collective noun when referring to man.