Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?

[Monk Brendan]

The gift of the catholic church belongs to all of Christianity. The gift of the Catholic church belongs to all of christianity.

I have not said otherwise. I do believe that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are a gift to all the world.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Its not the same thing as catholic priests however because a lot of catholic tradition isnt found in the bible but was invented after the bible was written..

Are you sure? When the Lord Jesus appointed the Apostles to make disciples in all the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit? And why this line in John 20:22 “And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:” At that point, Jesus made the Apostles BISHOPS.

Bishops have the authority to ordain deacons and presbyters (shortened to priest in the English Language.) What more do you want?

 

[Monk Brendan]

You cant have oneness when strife over doctrine hinders it. Thats why i rid myself of tradition, it only serves to divide.

That means, of course, that you have to rid yourself of the Bible, as well, plus all of the teaching of Calvin, Luther, and the rest of the MAN MADE traditions that you are following.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Both catholic, at least Rome used to be catholic. I don't know what to call it now... a mess?

Tut tut, is sniping at each other necessary?

 

[Monk Brendan]

You guys might think that crusades and heretic burning is funny but i dont. Thats your tradition, not mine.

I don't think it's funny either, and I deplore the excesses of the Roman Church. But it wasn't Rome that burned heretics. Rome would try a heretic, and give them every chance to repent. If they did, then the Church would assign penance for them. If they did not repent, the Church would hand the heretics over to the state (whatever that state, city, etc. was), and the state would usually put them to death--sometimes by fire.

It was Elizabeth I that did a lot of the burning. She killed Catholics by the thousands because she felt the same way you do. She was wrong...

 

[W2L]

I don't think it's funny either, and I deplore the excesses of the Roman Church. But it wasn't Rome that burned heretics. Rome would try a heretic, and give them every chance to repent. If they did, then the Church would assign penance for them. If they did not repent, the Church would hand the heretics over to the state (whatever that state, city, etc. was), and the state would usually put them to death--sometimes by fire.

It was Elizabeth I that did a lot of the burning. She killed Catholics by the thousands because she felt the same way you do. She was wrong...

Hand them over to the state who would execute them. Wow, i cant believe you are defending that.

 

[W2L]

That means, of course, that you have to rid yourself of the Bible, as well, plus all of the teaching of Calvin, Luther, and the rest of the MAN MADE traditions that you are following.

Im following the scriptures. I dont have any man made tradition. I keep faith simple. Its love and righteousness that matters.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Hand them over to the state who would execute them. Wow, i cant believe you are defending that.

I didn't say that I was! I said, in the post, that I deplore the excesses of the Church. The Inquisition was not a good thing!

But in its defense:

Modern historical research has uncovered facts that dismantle many of these centuries-old falsehoods. Here are some quick corrections concerning popular misunderstandings:

• The Inquisition was originally welcomed to bring order to Europe because states saw an attack on the state’s faith as an attack on the state as well.
• The Inquisition technically had jurisdiction only over those professing to be Christians.
• The courts of the Inquisition were extremely fair compared to their secular counterparts at the time.
• The Inquisition was responsible for less than 100 witch-hunt deaths, and was the first judicial body to denounce the trials in Europe.
• Though torture was commonly used in all the courts of Europe at the time, the Inquisition used torture very infrequently.
• During the 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition, between 3,000-5,000 people were sentenced to death (about 1 per month).
• The Church executed no one.

The Catholic Church is often the victim of the same kinds of urban legends that surround the Titanic or Aspartame. Whether it is the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, chained church Bibles, or Galileo, people are being led to believe falsehood and making bad decisions based on those falsehoods. Given the gravity of the decisions being made, any intelligent person deserves to have the facts.

If there is a hierarchy to urban legends that skeptics use to try to discredit the Catholic Church, the Spanish Inquisition is probably at the top. It’s an easy one, because most people think they know enough about it to not ask questions, and the knee-jerk reaction to the images brought to mind of thousands being tortured or killed for their beliefs are usually all one needs to make the point: the Church is untrustworthy at best, and genuinely evil at worst.

However, it turns out most of what people think they know about the inquisition is simply not true. The urban legends surrounding the Spanish Inquisition span from Reformation-era England to modern-day Fundamentalism, and are unfortunately so widespread that even many Christians believe them. To put it up front: yes, there were abuses done in the name of the Church—some committed by members of the Church. The urban legends concern the nature and extent of the abuses, as well as who was responsible for them. Although the evils present during various phases of the Inquisition were very real, should not be defended, and have been admitted by the Church, many historical misunderstandings and falsehoods based in anti-Spanish or anti-Catholic propaganda remain to this day.

 

[W2L]

I didn't say that I was! I said, in the post, that I deplore the excesses of the Church. The Inquisition was not a good thing!

But in its defense:

Modern historical research has uncovered facts that dismantle many of these centuries-old falsehoods. Here are some quick corrections concerning popular misunderstandings:

• The Inquisition was originally welcomed to bring order to Europe because states saw an attack on the state’s faith as an attack on the state as well.
• The Inquisition technically had jurisdiction only over those professing to be Christians.
• The courts of the Inquisition were extremely fair compared to their secular counterparts at the time.
• The Inquisition was responsible for less than 100 witch-hunt deaths, and was the first judicial body to denounce the trials in Europe.
• Though torture was commonly used in all the courts of Europe at the time, the Inquisition used torture very infrequently.
• During the 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition, between 3,000-5,000 people were sentenced to death (about 1 per month).
• The Church executed no one.

The Catholic Church is often the victim of the same kinds of urban legends that surround the Titanic or Aspartame. Whether it is the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, chained church Bibles, or Galileo, people are being led to believe falsehood and making bad decisions based on those falsehoods. Given the gravity of the decisions being made, any intelligent person deserves to have the facts.

If there is a hierarchy to urban legends that skeptics use to try to discredit the Catholic Church, the Spanish Inquisition is probably at the top. It’s an easy one, because most people think they know enough about it to not ask questions, and the knee-jerk reaction to the images brought to mind of thousands being tortured or killed for their beliefs are usually all one needs to make the point: the Church is untrustworthy at best, and genuinely evil at worst.

However, it turns out most of what people think they know about the inquisition is simply not true. The urban legends surrounding the Spanish Inquisition span from Reformation-era England to modern-day Fundamentalism, and are unfortunately so widespread that even many Christians believe them. To put it up front: yes, there were abuses done in the name of the Church—some committed by members of the Church. The urban legends concern the nature and extent of the abuses, as well as who was responsible for them. Although the evils present during various phases of the Inquisition were very real, should not be defended, and have been admitted by the Church, many historical misunderstandings and falsehoods based in anti-Spanish or anti-Catholic propaganda remain to this day.

I would distance myself from that if i were you.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It was Elizabeth I that did a lot of the burning. She killed Catholics by the thousands because she felt the same way you do. She was wrong...

Oh, what?

Oh, yeah. Bloody Mary, her predecessor, was in the habit of burning "heretics" in her quest to restore Catholicism. Elizabeth locked her up and eventually executed her for it. Nice woman, that Bess. Don't confuse the two.

 

[Philip_B]

Elizabeth locked her up and eventually executed her for it

FACT CHECK!

Mary was weak and ill from May 1558. In pain, possibly from ovarian cysts or uterine cancer, she died on 17 November 1558, aged 42, at St James's Palace, during an influenza epidemic that also claimed the life of Reginald Pole later the same day. She was succeeded by her half-sister Elizabeth. Philip (husband), who was in Brussels, wrote to his sister Joan: "I felt a reasonable regret for her death."​

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Always check your history from multiple sources and compare.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hand them over to the state who would execute them. Wow, i cant believe you are defending that.

The Jews and Jewish Rulers did the same thing by handing over both Jesus and Paul to the state authorities of Rome to be tried and executed.
Jesus was crucified. It was no less than someone hiring a hit man to kill murder somebody:

John 19:
6 As soon as the chief priests and officers saw Him, they shouted, “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!”
12
From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, "If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar."

Then Paul himself gets turned over to the Romans by the Jews

Acts 28:
17 After three days, he called together the leaders of the Jews. When they had gathered, he said to them, “Brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, I was taken prisoner in Jerusalem and handed over to the Romans. 18 They examined me and wanted to release me, because there was no basis for a death sentence against me. 19 But when the Jews objected, I was compelled to appeal to Caesar, even though I have no charge to bring against my nation.

Those Jewish Rulers received their due recompense in 70ad as prophecied.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah!...............

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. [Reve 6:6]

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Reve 8:8
“Therefore Her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine.
And She will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges[fn] her.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the City, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. [Reve 18:18,19]

Reve 18:
18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of her burning, saying, "what City is like to the great city?
19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "'Woe! Woe to you, great City, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!'

 

[W2L]

The Jews and Jewish Rulers did the same thing by handing over both Jesus and Paul to the state authorities of Rome to be tried and executed.
Jesus was crucified. It was no less than someone hiring a hit man to kill murder somebody:

John 19:
6 As soon as the chief priests and officers saw Him, they shouted, “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!”
12
From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, "If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar."

Then Paul himself gets turned over to the Romans by the Jews

Acts 28:
17 After three days, he called together the leaders of the Jews. When they had gathered, he said to them, “Brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, I was taken prisoner in Jerusalem and handed over to the Romans. 18 They examined me and wanted to release me, because there was no basis for a death sentence against me. 19 But when the Jews objected, I was compelled to appeal to Caesar, even though I have no charge to bring against my nation.

Those Jewish Rulers received their due recompense in 70ad as prophecied.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah!...............

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. [Reve 6:6]

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Reve 8:8
“Therefore Her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine.
And She will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges[fn] her.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the City, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. [Reve 18:18,19]

Reve 18:
18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of her burning, saying, "what City is like to the great city?
19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "'Woe! Woe to you, great City, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!'

The folly of catholicism is that they tried to build a theocracy. This will never work because the kingdom of God is not of this world.

 

[thecolorsblend]

The folly of catholicism is that they tried to build a theocracy. This will never work because the kingdom of God is not of this world.

??? The Catholic Church didn't try building a theocracy; they built theocracies in Europe and other places. And they worked for 1,600 years.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Oh, yeah. Bloody Mary, her predecessor, was in the habit of burning "heretics" in her quest to restore Catholicism. Elizabeth locked her up and eventually executed her for it. Nice woman, that Bess. Don't confuse the two.

284 Protestants died in England during the reign of Queen Mary.

It is impossible to know how many Catholics there were in Elizabethan England, for few were willing to be categorized and counted. John Bossy (defining a Catholic as one who habitually, though not necessarily regularly, used the services of a priest) estimated some 40,000 in 1603, less than one per cent of the population.

40,000 vs 284. Who spent more time making martyrs?

 

[W2L]

??? The Catholic Church didn't try building a theocracy; they built theocracies in Europe and other places. And they worked for 1,600 years.

yes, crusades and "heretic" burning worked out well. You cant force the gospel onto people. That's what a theocracy does but its wrong.

 

[thecolorsblend]

yes, crusades and "heretic" burning worked out well. You cant force the gospel onto people. That's what a theocracy does but its wrong.

If it wasn't for the Crusades, Europe would've become overrun by Islamic hordes. I think we could probably use another Crusade today, actually.

 

[W2L]

If it wasn't for the Crusades, Europe would've become overrun by Islamic hordes. I think we could probably use another Crusade today, actually.

Its our job to pray, not to kill. The Lords kingdom isnt of this world. This world is passing away. We are new and so is our citizenship which is in heaven. Sound doctrine clearly teaches this. The true apostles would never bear arms. God delivered them without them ever turning to killing.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Its our job to pray, not to kill. The Lords kingdom isnt of this world. This world is passing away. We are new and so is our citizenship which is in heaven. Sound doctrine clearly teaches this. The true apostles would never bear arms. God delivered them without them ever turning to killing.

Would the world, in your opinion, be better off without Christianity?