Racism and sexism

[Zoii]

No. I'm telling you those who want it (or any other act they oppose) to be illegal believe it's okay to impose their beliefs on others so they shouldn't complain when people want to impose their beliefs on them.

Agree - thats what liberals largely agree with as well - except when it comes to the law. Like it or not you have to obey the law.

 

[samir]

Good gravy. Do you support wives physically disciplining their husbands?????

I support Christian men having the right to treat their wives the way they always treated them before liberals starting imposing their beliefs on others.

 

[Zoii]

No. I'm telling you those who want it (or any other act they oppose) to be illegal believe it's okay to impose their beliefs on others so they shouldn't complain when people want to impose their beliefs on them.

So....... If you too dont believe you should impose your belief on others, why all the rhetoric re gay marriage and other points you raised. The thing is you believe you can impose your belief systems on others, and you are vehemtly defending that. Your welcome to your point but thats where largely the law doesnt support you.

 

[Go Braves]

I support Christian men having the right to treat their wives the way they always treated them before liberals starting imposing their beliefs on others.

The implication there is that the folks who aren't liberals, the Trump supporters & such, "physically discipline" their wives. Regardless of your political affiliation, it's wrong.

 

[samir]

Agree - thats what liberals largely agree with as well - except when it comes to the law. Like it or not you have to obey the law.

Whether the law should be obeyed is not the topic anyone was discussing. The topic is whether people should support using laws to impose their beliefs on others. Laws are made so the majority can impose their beliefs on minorities which everyone except anarchists support.

 

[Zoii]

If a homosexual person wanted a product they provide to everyone (such as a birthday cake) then I'd be okay prohibiting discrimination. If they wanted a product they don't offer (such as cake made specifically for a sinful event) then they should have the right to deny that request especially since God's word says it's a sin.
.

Thats not how the law works. If you're a cake shop indicating you make specialty products such as wedding cakes, then you may not discriminate. Its the same as advertising that you are Pakistani Curry restaurant, and refusing access to christians. You may not discriminate on the grounds of gender, ethnicity, sexuality or religion.

Noone says you have to like it - you may bear all the personal prejudices you like...but an advertised service may not discriminate

 

[Zoii]

Whether the law should be obeyed is not the topic anyone was discussing. The topic is whether people should support using laws to impose their beliefs on others. Laws are made so the majority can impose their beliefs on minorities which everyone except anarchists support.

Actually the OP was about the higher proportions of men v women; and the proportion of white v non-white in jail. You started then an agenda pointing to Liberalism which you defined as anything attacking traditional traditional christian values including feminism. Youve gotten off track by now saying the laws are to blame because they impose conditions on us you dont agree with - thankfully or I would fear for many women in marriage if your views were followed.

 

[samir]

So....... If you too dont believe you should impose your belief on others, why all the rhetoric re gay marriage and other points you raised. The thing is you believe you can impose your belief systems on others, and you are vehemtly defending that. Your welcome to your point but thats where largely the law doesnt support you.

I said I support imposing my beliefs on others and tried to explain why you support imposing your beliefs on others too. If you're morally opposed to something (such as sacrificing children to idols) and want it to be illegal then you are imposing your beliefs on others

 

[Zoii]

I support Christian men having the right to treat their wives the way they always treated them before liberals starting imposing their beliefs on others.

Pesky feminist liberal lenonists not allowing a wife to get a good thrashing when she needs one by her God-fearing husband.

 

[samir]

Thats not how the law works. If you're a cake shop indicating you make specialty products such as wedding cakes, then you may not discriminate. Its the same as advertising that you are Pakistani Curry restaurant, and refusing access to christians. You may not discriminate on the grounds of gender, ethnicity, sexuality or religion.

Noone says you have to like it - you may bear all the personal prejudices you like...but an advertised service may not discriminate

I don't think anyone has ever refused to bake a cake for anyone's wedding.

 

[Zoii]

I don't think anyone has ever refused to bake a cake for anyone's wedding.

not true
Colorado cake maker asks Supreme Court to provide a religious liberty right to refuse gay couple

 

[samir]

Pesky feminist liberal lenonists not allowing a wife to get a good thrashing when she needs one by her God-fearing husband.

not true
Colorado cake maker asks Supreme Court to provide a religious liberty right to refuse gay couple

No they did not. They had no problem serving homosexuals even ones who wanted to marry. They only opposed being forced to support a sinful celebration.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I said I support imposing my beliefs on others and tried to explain why you support imposing your beliefs on others too. If you're morally opposed to something (such as sacrificing children to idols) and want it to be illegal then you are imposing your beliefs on others

It's arguable that sacrificing babies isn't just morally wrong because of someone's beliefs...it's wrong for a functional society.

So there's a pretty large gap between "it's wrong for homosexuals to marry so it should be illegal" and "it's wrong for people to kill each other so it should be illegal". They may both be beliefs...but homosexuals marrying doesn't damage society in any measurable way. People killing each other at will however, does make it rather difficult for society to function.

 

[Paidiske]

If a homosexual person wanted a product they provide to everyone (such as a birthday cake) then I'd be okay prohibiting discrimination. If they wanted a product they don't offer (such as cake made specifically for a sinful event) then they should have the right to deny that request especially since God's word says it's a sin.

From what I understand, this is precisely the situation now. If a baker would make a cake for (straight) couple A, they must agree to make precisely the same cake for (same-sex) couple B. But couple B cannot force them to make a cake they would not make for anybody (same sex specific details, for example).

That seems reasonable to me.

You just said you support imposing your beliefs on others in some cases so you agree with it.

I agree with it only when I can demonstrate that not imposing my beliefs leads to harm. I do not agree with it as a general principle otherwise.

 

[Zoii]

I said I support imposing my beliefs on others and tried to explain why you support imposing your beliefs on others too. If you're morally opposed to something (such as sacrificing children to idols) and want it to be illegal then you are imposing your beliefs on others

Perhaps you have a point Samir. Perhaps each of us is attempting to impose our world view on the other. I think for your next thread Samir you should get a debate on what exactly does it mean to be a conservative v Liberal. What are we trying to impose on the other.

That might get a bit heated though

 

[Dave-W]

I support Christian men having the right to treat their wives the way they always treated them before liberals starting imposing their beliefs on others.

So you support men punching and kicking their wives, breaking bones and causing brain damage? That was all legal when I was a kid (and witnessed it first hand).

 

[quatona]

I support Christian men having the right to treat their wives the way they always treated them before liberals starting imposing their beliefs on others.

When it comes to people beating their wives, I am anything but liberal.

 

[Dave-W]

When it comes to people beating their wives, I am anything but liberal.

So you are in favor of domestic abuse?

 

[quatona]

So you are in favor of domestic abuse?

"Liberal:
1. Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas."
( liberal | Definition of liberal in English by Oxford Dictionaries ).

"I´m not liberal when it comes to domestic abuse" = "I´m not willing to respect or accept this behaviour; I am not open to it."

Hope this helps.

(If you are looking for someone who is in favour of it, there this conservative Christian poster...)

 

[Radagast]

From what I understand, this is precisely the situation now. If a baker would make a cake for (straight) couple A, they must agree to make precisely the same cake for (same-sex) couple B. But couple B cannot force them to make a cake they would not make for anybody (same sex specific details, for example).

That's not the situation, actually. The famous Colorado baker was prosecuted precisely because, although he offered generic cakes, he refused to make same-sex-specific decorations.

The law is unclear on whether his refusal to make adult-themed cakes or Halloween cakes was similarly illegal.