Please...Tell Me What Tribulation Is!

[the old scribe]

The truth is that Matt 24 was not stitched correctly in the formation of the bible. It is actually 2 Prophecies in one. One being the result of the fall of the temple in 70 A.D, and the other being the End of the World. If you truly like me to show you how what im saying is true, then Pm me and i will show you. Otherwise, continue to study for yourself but i guarantee you, you will never see it until it is revealed to you.

Any serious Bible student who is objective can decompose Matthew 24-25. Most often Christians follow what they have been taught rather than challenging what they were taught. For those of us of normal intelligence this might be a difficult endeavor, but it is doable.

If a Bible student will start with a harmony of the gospels and the recognition that the Apostle Matthew's account is not primarily chronological but topical, the student is on the right path. The main obstacle when entering the study of the Olivet Discourse is to have the preconceived notion that Matthew 24:4-31 describes events which are in our future simply because the student believes these events have not happened. Discovering that they have happened within forty years of the Ascension of Christ will allow the Bible student to be more objective. Such a misconception is usually the result of not reading commentaries with differing views. Also, reading "The War of the Jews" by Josephus opens up a wealth of information relevant to the "great tribulation" as events during this war.

Generally, proper interpretation of the Bible requires a knowledge of the symbolic-figurative-apocalyptic language as used in the Bible. Taking such terms literally or in an absolute sense (and not as hyperbole) will always result in the misunderstanding of scripture.

 

[Revealing Times]

No, sorry, that is not correct.

I haven't seen anything yet I think you are correct on so that doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[thetruth0]

Any serious Bible student who is objective can decompose Matthew 24-25. Most often Christians follows what they have been taught rather than challenging what they were taught. For those of us of normal intelligence this might be a difficult endeavor, but it is doable.

If a Bible student will start with a harmony of the gospels and the recognition that the Apostle Matthew's account is not primarily chronological but topical, the student is on the right path. The main obstacle when entering the study of the Olivet Discourse is to have the preconceived notion that Matthew 24:4-31 describes events which are in our future simply because the student believes these events have not happened. Discovering that they have happened within forty years of the Ascension of Christ will allow the Bible student to be more objective. Such a misconception is usually the result of not reading commentaries with differing views. Also, reading "The War of the Jews" by Josephus opens up a wealth of information relevant to the "great tribulation" as events during this war.

Generally, proper interpretation of the Bible requires a knowledge of the symbolic-figurative-apocalyptic language as used in the Bible. Taking such terms literally or in an absolute sense (and not as hyperbole) will always result in the misunderstanding of scripture.

Here is the truth - Except ye be a Prophet with the ability to decipher and assimilate GOD's Spoken WORD at HIS height of communication, then all the study you do by the brain is for nought. For no Man can unseal what the GOD has sealed. It is the unveiling that reveals the person's status, whether they are a man of GOD as his message is what reveals this to you.

The Bible is a Spiritual Book and it is not to be taken literally at all in that HIS WORDS are Spirit and are life.. But that doesn't mean that the things that were written about didn't happen either. Rather, there is a revelation behind everything which reveals the LOGOS. Everything that happened, happened for a reason greater than any man can know or understand except he be a Prophet - a True Prophet Prophesied to come - Malachi 4:4-6, Acts 3:19-23, Rev 10:7, Rev 18:4, Isaiah 60, Ezekiel 37, John 16:12-15

After reading these verses, perhaps you will understand better where the unveiling of Matt 24 has come from.

 

[James Honigman]

I have studied the Scriptures for decades. I have entertained every possible consideration of when Yeshua come for his Bride.

In every case, in every discussion, Believers speak about a time when prophecy indicates the people of G-d being caught up to meet Yeshua in the air, as stated in Matthew 24.

Each of them describes a Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, Pan-Trib reference point. Each argues vehemently for their particular view in relation to the final 7 years of Daniel's prophecy. And yet, Yeshua states quite clearly what will happen, and in what order.

So, with all the positions anyone can take in regard to the Day of Jacob's Trouble, which occurs at the end of the final 7 Years of the prophecy in Daniel, what is the Tribulation that is spoken of? What makes it Tribulation? For it seems to me that the definition one uses of Tribulation is paramount in your Eschatological position, and what caused that Tribulation.

Matthew 24:2-31 (KJV)
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hi Questore. Without getting caught up in the minutia of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 or for that matter, the entire book of Revelation, such as chapter 13, I have been forced to come to the conclusion there are two tribulations for these final days. The 1st would be the deception of the devil, who will pretend to be Y'shua, deceiving nearly everyone save our Father's elect. The 2nd tribulation would be the wrath of G-d, poured out on an unsuspecting world, not the least of which those who bowed a knee to Satan during the 1st tribulation. My opinion only.

 

[Light of the East]

The truth is that Matt 24 was not stitched correctly in the formation of the bible. It is actually 2 Prophecies in one. One being the result of the fall of the temple in 70 A.D, and the other being the End of the World. If you truly like me to show you how what im saying is true, then Pm me and i will show you. Otherwise, continue to study for yourself but i guarantee you, you will never see it until it is revealed to you.

Wow! Nothing like twisting the Scriptures to fit your own definition.

 

[Revealing Times]

Hi Questore. Without getting caught up in the minutia of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 or for that matter, the entire book of Revelation, such as chapter 13, I have been forced to come to the conclusion there are two tribulations for these final days. The 1st would be the deception of the devil, who will pretend to be Y'shua, deceiving nearly everyone save our Father's elect. The 2nd tribulation would be the wrath of G-d, poured out on an unsuspecting world, not the least of which those who bowed a knee to Satan during the 1st tribulation. My opinion only.

The Troubles of Jacob are not the Day of the Lord/Gods Wrath, you are technically correct, but lets not call Gods Wrath tribulation, God protects Israel, her troubles are the full seven years, and any Jewish person throughout the world who doesn't Flee unto the Wilderness will be in trouble thus in peril of death via the Anti-Christ/Beast. But the Troubles of Jacob start before Gods Wrath, it is with the World as a whole, the pressure on them to make a Peace/Security deal with this Anti-Chris/Little Horn will be enormous.

But the Wrath of God/Day of the Lord comes upon BABYLON/World.

 

[Hal A Peno]

zahn

 

[jgr]

That's a great way to be deceived. Listen to a historian to interpret over a thousand verses of END-TIME prophecy FOR YOU!. What a hermeneutic!

Listen to an historian, or listen to a fantasist.

Easy choice.

 

[the old scribe]

Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

Christ was a "Partial-Preterist" in the Olivet Discourse.
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Just adding a little humor.
Actually, Christ was a futurist concerning this prophecy at the time he made it. Today, one could say Christ is a partial-preterist concerning this prophecy.

Of course, every believer understands some prophecies have been fulfilled. This makes every believer a partial-preterist.

 

[the old scribe]

Hal A Peno
-------------------------

Indeed, you are a jalapeño pepper.

 

[Goatee]

I think that people interpret Revelation wrongly. I believe that it was all about things that were going to happen within the life of the Apostles. But, I do think that Jesus will come again though. Probably when human kind has all but wiped itself out!

 

[the old scribe]

The Old scribe said,

Mathew 24 is very chronological, and so was the questions that the disciples asked that sparked the Mathew 24 response. The book of Revelation is also chronological making it easier for us to understand as the prophecies pass.

Futurist believe that there's no evidence that the events surrounding AD 70 fulfilled anything other than the temples destruction. WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN AD70 DEBUNKS PRETERISM AND HISTORICISM.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY COMMENTARIES I'VE READ OR HOW MUCH TIME I PUT IN MY STUDIES. ONE THING I CAN SAY, PRETERISM WENT RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW JUST LIKE PRE-TRIB.

That's a great way to be deceived. Listen to a historian to interpret over a thousand verses of END-TIME prophecy FOR YOU!. What a hermeneutic!

Too bad. Preterism makes that symbolism useless today because it ALREADY HAPPENED! Preterism makes over 1,000 verses of prophecy USELESS!

That shows me just how much you know about good hermeneutics. There are literal and figurative aspects to all of prophecy. You need to go back to school, but you're probably too old.

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I'd like my jalapeño peppers to be tams. Please do not take a post made to guide another, Questore, as an offense to you or your beliefs. Every believer desires to better understand the Bible. What makes us so very "hot" over our religious beliefs is that for each of us our beliefs are usually held to the one, ultimate truth. In this kind of thinking we become fundamentalist. This is not a knock on fundamentalism but just a recognition of what makes us fundamentalist or idealist. If understanding the Bible was simple, all would agree on its meaning.

Accusations are not Bible study nor do they make a point. If you wish for me or others to accept your perspective of the Olivet Discourse, presenting your Bible study would be a first step. But one ought to be aware, many if not most were once futurist. So, they understand the position. It seems many the questions about eschatology on this forum are from those struggling with futurism or futuristic interpretations of passages like the Olivet Discourse.

As believers following Christ we are to love the brethren. As creatures we must recognize or faulty thinking. If our thinking was not faulty our thoughts would produce mass production replicas of ideas.

 

[Hal A Peno]

f

 

[the old scribe]

HOT against Preterism.

In interpreting Matthew 24-25 there are premillennial dispensationalist who interpret Mathew 24:1-31 and 24:1-34 as referring to the Jewish war against Rome (A. D. 67-92) and the A.D. 70 destruction of the temple.

Are you also hot against this view?

 

[Hal A Peno]

zfgn

 

[David Kent]

The time of "Jacob's Trouble" occurred during the Babylonian captivity.

Absolutely. People take many OT prophecies out from their Immediate context and put them at the end time to fit in with their preconceived ideas.

 

[David Kent]

Who are they? Most agree the passage includes the destruction of the temple, but if some accept Mathew 24 all happened in AD 70, they get a few handfuls of verses wrong. Preterism, gets about 1,000 verse wrong. See the difference?

It all happened in AD 70 up to the word BUT. The first question?

• 
  3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?

This question was answered up to verse 36, then comes the BUT, when he answered the second question.

• 3 and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
• 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Hal A Peno]

SDFhgb

 

[Hal A Peno]

dth

 

[David Kent]

The 'sign of his coming' is in verse 27...

V. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Hardly a sign, because lightning is lightning fast. If you are struck by lightning you may well know nothing about it.