Sin is a matter of ones personal conscience.

Aldebaran

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God does not consider it a sin. That's how He can forgive
even when man continues to Sin.

Really? I thought it was because Christ died for our sins so that our sins are covered by his sacrifice for us if we believe in Him to do so. But that's just what I read in the bible. John 3:16, and all that.
 
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SkyWriting

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Really? I thought it was because Christ died for our sins so that our sins are covered by his sacrifice for us if we believe in Him to do so. But that's just what I read in the bible. John 3:16, and all that.

He did that even while we were still sinners. :oldthumbsup:

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:1-22
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— ...

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

What Does the Bible Say About Gods Forgiveness? - OpenBible.info
 
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Aldebaran

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He did that even while we were still sinners. :oldthumbsup:

But why? From what you've been saying, it doesn't sound as if we need Him. All we have to do is justify away our sins, or just do them enough until our conscience is seared.
 
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Phil 1:21

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No, it's a fact that is what the Bible says:
"There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." - Proverbs 14:12.
That completely contradicts your claim that what is right is simply what it seems to us to be.

Casting doubt on what God actually said was the original tactic used to justify sin (Genesis 3:1).
 
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SkyWriting

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But why? From what you've been saying, it doesn't sound as if we need Him. All we have to do is justify away our sins, or just do them enough until our conscience is seared.

That seems to be a gift given to those without faith.
 
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Dave G.

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So if we never read the bible, never associated with Christians or went to church we will be unaware of what sin is and so sinless ? Interesting , would have been better off if my parents were non believers at that rate. What heck, maybe the new age movement is a better deal for folks !
 
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Aldebaran

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That seems to be a gift given to those without faith.

Then how is it that we are saved by grace through faith? Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast."
 
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SkyWriting

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And yet you still, once again, like every other time you attempt this argument, completely fail to show that the Bible defines "the right thing" as "your personal opinion."

What is in your heart is your personal opinion.

Matthew 15:17-20
Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”


Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Jeremiah 17:10
“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.
 
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Aldebaran

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Matthew 15:17-20
Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

What is in your heart is your personal opinion.

....and defiles a person. But only if it is your opinion that those things listed by Jesus are a sin?
 
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stuart lawrence

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So if we never read the bible, never associated with Christians or went to church we will be unaware of what sin is and so sinless ? Interesting , would have been better off if my parents were non believers at that rate. What heck, maybe the new age movement is a better deal for folks !
Not according to the core foundation on which the NC stands. The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart( heb10:16&17) God does it, he puts it there. And:
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20

Therefore, you would not have to read a bible, go to church, or associate with Christians to become sin conscious
 
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paul1149

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The fear of the Lord is still the beginning of wisdom, and His law (or truth), administered through grace, is able to purify the heart. A good conscience is a reflection of God's law, but the conscience can be seared and twisted - witness many criminals who have not a tinge of remorse. If you make yourself the ultimate judge of yourself you are going down hard. You have indeed made yourself your own god, as did satan.
 
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samir

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Sin is a matter of ones personal conscience.
Yes it is startling. But I come from a period where I
have taken scripture literally, as a good fundamentalist
should. It was Henry Morris from the Creation
Research Institute who taught his followers to aceept
the simplest reading of any passage as the base message
and then allow other versions to explain more.

As a result, taking scripture literally as a Fundamentalist,
has moved me into a catagory of being socially progressive.



2 Peter 2:21
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them.

James 4:17
16 As it is, you boast in your proud intentions. All such boasting is evil. 17 Therefore, whoever knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin.

John 9:41
"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” Matthew 7:1-2



So, as you can read, Sin is a matter of ones personal conscience.
Yes it is startling.

Literal means believing what scripture actually says and not creatively interpreting it to suit one's own opinions which is the exact opposite of interpreting it literally. Better reading comprehension skills would help.
 
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-V-

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What is in your heart is your personal opinion.

Matthew 15:17-20
Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”


Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
Nothing in there about what is right = our personal opinion.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Nothing in there about what is right = our personal opinion.

Jeremiah 17:10
“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”
Nothing in there about what is right = our personal opinion.

Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.
Yeah, you just refuted your own argument.

Right in man's eyes *BUT* the Lord weighs the heart, which means it's NOT based on what is right in man's own eyes, it's based on the Lord's rules.
 
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Instrument150

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Sin is a matter of ones personal conscience.
Yes it is startling. But I come from a period where I
have taken scripture literally, as a good fundamentalist
should. It was Henry Morris from the Creation
Research Institute who taught his followers to aceept
the simplest reading of any passage as the base message
and then allow other versions to explain more.

As a result, taking scripture literally as a Fundamentalist,
has moved me into a catagory of being socially progressive.



2 Peter 2:21
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them.

James 4:17
16 As it is, you boast in your proud intentions. All such boasting is evil. 17 Therefore, whoever knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin.

John 9:41
"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” Matthew 7:1-2



So, as you can read, Sin is a matter of ones personal conscience.
Yes it is startling.

This is a great topic. You're right, 2 Peter 2:21 is pretty cryptic when taken at face value.

I have considered this much of late.

I think that if this face value interpretation is the case, we have to be careful to be in the Spirit while making these decisions. If your eye be single, then your entire body will be full of light. There are other voices that seek to warp our perception of these sins, and we can believe that other voices are ours that aren't ours at all
 
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SkyWriting

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Fundamentally, it is the lesson of Adam.
Exactly. Adam did what God had told him not to do.
We need to follow what God tells us is right. Not what
others say is right for us.
 
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Aseyesee

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Exactly. Adam did what God had told him not to do.
We need to follow what God tells us is right. Not what
others say is right for us.

More in the light of God's question to Adam of who told you that you were naked ...

A good question in relationship to this and along the lines of this discussion would be, why was Adam before he ate, not ashamed to be naked?
 
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