Orthodox view of, "one Mediator between God and men"

[ArmyMatt]

If you wanted to discuss it , then maybe let everybody discuss it ? What's point of discussing homosexuality in city where every man would be homosexual ?

what?

 

[ArmyMatt]

That was how it worked with me as well. Life confession before; absolution through the chrismation.

yep, because confession and absolution return you to original baptismal purity.

 

[FenderTL5]

If you wanted to discuss it , then maybe let everybody discuss it ? What's point of discussing homosexuality in city where every man would be homosexual ?

The thread has nothing to do with homosexuality.
I placed the disclaimer at the beginning stating exactly who & how I wanted to discuss this topic and placed it in the appropriate forum to do so.

You may certainly comment if you desire, all I ask is that you respond with an Orthodox understanding. It is not my desire to debate every denomination's view of the passage.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I gave a 'life confession' when I came into the church.
Whether that was just prior or after the Chrismation - I can't recall.

I gave a life confession prior to being received into the Church, but I don't think I was absolved at the time

That was how it worked with me as well. Life confession before; absolution through the chrismation.

This is what I wished I could have done.

Though to be honest, for a "first Confession" it would have been very difficult. But I felt the lack of it for some time.

We do have a priest that comes who is primarily a Confessor, and I mentioned my doubts to him. His reply was to break down sin into categories, and ask me if I had committed each of them one by one, and I simply replied "yes" and he gave me absolution for them all.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If you wanted to discuss it , then maybe let everybody discuss it ? What's point of discussing homosexuality in city where every man would be homosexual ?

Hi Amazing Horse, and welcome to CF and to TAW.

I think I see what you are saying.

The reason the topic is limited is that the OP wanted to ask the Orthodox view of a particular question, not debate among many different denominations what their take on it is.

That's the reason for different forums on CF. If every denomination's view is wanted, the question can be asked in General Theolgy. If the Methodist view were wanted, it could be asked in the Methodist forum. If the view among the Traditional Churches was wanted, it could be asked in Traditional Theology. If non-Christians were invited to critique, Christianity and World Religion.

Sometimes people want particular views discussed without having a free-for-all break out and have to argue against things that would be a distraction from what people want to talk about.

Unfortunately, many people enter through the "New Threads' and post without realizing where they are, in violation of various sets of forum rules, and it makes a lot of work for us ambassadors and various staff members, derails discussion, and often offends people that they weren't being invited to argue. I actually appreciate that the OP was trying to head that off.

It's the nature of how the forums work. Having sections allows people to have their particular question answered without distraction. The OP wanted the Orthodox explanation of a particular passage. I hope that answers your question.

And again, welcome to CF!

 

[FenderTL5]

This is what I wished I could have done.

Though to be honest, for a "first Confession" it would have been very difficult. But I felt the lack of it for some time.

We do have a priest that comes who is primarily a Confessor, and I mentioned my doubts to him. His reply was to break down sin into categories, and ask me if I had committed each of them one by one, and I simply replied "yes" and he gave me absolution for them all.

Our priest gave us a 'preparation for confession' document (pdf file). I don;t recall of it was from the Greek Archdiocese or elsewhere. It was a series of questions with space to jot in a few answers (thank God for large binders). It started with basics like the 10 Commandments then drilled down from there.

 

[Amazing Horse]

I love you

 

[~Anastasia~]

What a wonderful post.

I love you

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. - John 13:34-35

We love you too. God be with you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Our priest gave us a 'preparation for confession' document (pdf file). I don;t recall of it was from the Greek Archdiocese or elsewhere. It was a series of questions with space to jot in a few answers (thank God for large binders). It started with basics like the 10 Commandments then drilled down from there.

Hmmmm. I wonder if it's like the one my SF sent me. His is a little pamphlet he put together. It likewise covers the 10 commandments, etc.

I'm not sure I've ever used it in thinking about a life Confession. That might be a useful exercise for me ... or maybe not at this point. Thank you for mentioning it. I will think on it for a while, pray about it, and if it does seem like a good idea, I'll ask Fr. C. He does do life confessions when receiving as well, but unfortunately I must meet with him over the phone.

 

[FenderTL5]

Hmmmm. I wonder if it's like the one my SF sent me. His is a little pamphlet he put together. It likewise covers the 10 commandments, etc.

I'm not sure I've ever used it in thinking about a life Confession. That might be a useful exercise for me ... or maybe not at this point. Thank you for mentioning it. I will think on it for a while, pray about it, and if it does seem like a good idea, I'll ask Fr. C. He does do life confessions when receiving as well, but unfortunately I must meet with him over the phone.

I'm meticulous in backing up files and such on my computer.
It would seem that my records keeping is better than my memory.
I went back and checked, the initial guide was sent as a link and .pdf (same info)
Here is the linkage to the Self-Examination Before Confession

The other prep guide with the Ten Commandments is on the Goarch.net site.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm meticulous in backing up files and such on my computer.
It would seem that my records keeping is better than my memory.
I went back and checked, the initial guide was sent as a link and .pdf (same info)
Here is the linkage to the Self-Examination Before Confession

The other prep guide with the Ten Commandments is on the Goarch.net site.

Thanks for sharing!

I'm actually a little bothered. I went to look for my pamphlet and it seems I've mislaid it. Everything else is there, but not that. I wish I were as meticulous.

Thank you for sending that.

 

[Basil the Great]

Mediatrix (Mediator) of All Graces is a commonly held title given to Mary by many Catholics, but the Church has yet to declare such as dogma, as well the unoffical title of Co-Redemptrix (Co-Redeemer). I wonder what the view of Orthodox posters are here re: the potential that if the EOC and the Catholic Church ever get serious about reunion, might it be possible for the Eastern Orthodox to accept that Mary is the Mediatrix of All Graces? This assumes for the sake of this discussion that at some point in the future the Catholic Church will declare a new Marian Dogma which lays out these two titles as necessary to the faith.

 

[FenderTL5]

Mediatrix (Mediator) of All Graces is a commonly held title given to Mary by many Catholics, but the Church has yet to declare such as dogma, as well the unoffical title of Co-Redemptrix (Co-Redeemer). I wonder what the view of Orthodox posters are here re: the potential that if the EOC and the Catholic Church ever get serious about reunion, might it be possible for the Eastern Orthodox to accept that Mary is the Mediatrix of All Graces? This assumes for the sake of this discussion that at some point in the future the Catholic Church will declare a new Marian Dogma which lays out these two titles as necessary to the faith.

I can only speak for myself on this issue; What the Orthodox church has declared as dogma regarding Christ and the church was something that drew me toward Orthodoxy. otoh, even the Orthodox Mariology doctrines took a little getting accustomed to for me. I would hope, if/when the day comes, that there would be some tempering of the Latin view. ymmv

 

[~Anastasia~]

If grace is the very energies of God, how can the Virgin Mary POSSIBLY be the mediator of all graces? It suggests she harnesses and controls the very Holy Spirit!

No, I don't see how this can possibly be acceptable. It is probably the most difficult Roman doctrine of all, given our understanding of grace. I know that once again, Rome "doesn't mean what it sounds like it means" because they believe in some treasury of merits that can be applied at will, but no, just no. St. Gregory Palamas would probably show up and start slapping people.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Mediatrix (Mediator) of All Graces is a commonly held title given to Mary by many Catholics, but the Church has yet to declare such as dogma, as well the unoffical title of Co-Redemptrix (Co-Redeemer). I wonder what the view of Orthodox posters are here re: the potential that if the EOC and the Catholic Church ever get serious about reunion, might it be possible for the Eastern Orthodox to accept that Mary is the Mediatrix of All Graces? This assumes for the sake of this discussion that at some point in the future the Catholic Church will declare a new Marian Dogma which lays out these two titles as necessary to the faith.

as Anastasia said, we have a different understanding of what grace is. for us, grace is God Himself in His Uncreated Energies. therefore, a creature cannot be the Mediatrix of all graces. as exalted as Mary is, she is still finite and grace is infinite. so, no.

and a big no on that Co-Redemptrix title as well. our only Redeemer is Christ, Mary just played the biggest role in His plan and work.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Speaking of new dogmas being required for the faith ... what does that mean in practical terms? Does that mean people who died before it became a teaching were "unsaved" in their estimation? Or does it mean that the criteria for salvation changed? I can't see my way out of it being one or the other. In all fairness, I should be asking Catholics this though.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

A couple comments. First, grace is extended by God to man numerous times in the OT and there is obviously no mention of the Throtokos. So Scripturally it doesn't make sense.

Second, Orthodoxy believes what was taught "everywhere, always, by everyone" according to St. Vincent of Lerin. There is absolutely no evidence that the consensus of the Fathers believed that the Theotokos was the mediator of all graces. We don't believe in "progressive theology", so any latter day revelation about the Theotokos will not convince many Orthodox.

In any case, ArmyMatt has the best answer above.

 

[Basil the Great]

It is one thing to believe that Mary could be the Mediatrix of some graces, but to say that she is the Mediator of all graces seems to elevate her to a level that was not taught by the Church Fathers.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

It is one thing to believe that Mary could be the Mediatrix of some graces, but to say that she is the Mediator of all graces seems to elevate her to a level that was not taught by the Church Fathers.

I could be wrong here, but I think we as Orthodox would not even say that the Theotokos is mediatrix of "some" graces. Since Grace is God Himself, not some created thing, Grace doesn't/couldn't have a mediator.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I could be wrong here, but I think we as Orthodox would not even say that the Theotokos is mediatrix of "some" graces. Since Grace is God Himself, not some created thing, Grace doesn't/couldn't have a mediator.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would agree here