Orthodox view of, "one Mediator between God and men"

[FenderTL5]

NOTE: This post is to discuss the Orthodox understanding of the topic at hand. It is posted in the Ancient Way, a forum for Orthodox Christians. Others, please be cognizant of this and be respectful if replying.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 (NKJV)
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

This verse gets trotted out often from those who oppose 'catholic' principles in general. On the topic of Mary, Intercession of Saints, priests, Bishops and many others this would seem to be a catch-all proof-text for opposition.

I tend to think of it as a much deeper than meets the eye, thinking that it speaks to the Incarnation as well as the redemptive act.
What exactly is the Orthodox understanding of this?

 

[ArmyMatt]

NOTE: This post is to discuss the Orthodox understanding of the topic at hand. It is posted in the Ancient Way, a forum for Orthodox Christians. Others, please be cognizant of this and be respectful if replying.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 (NKJV)
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

This verse gets trotted out often from those who oppose 'catholic' principles in general. On the topic of Mary, Intercession of Saints, priests, Bishops and many others this would seem to be a catch-all proof-text for opposition.

I tend to think of it as a much deeper than meets the eye, thinking that it speaks to the Incarnation as well as the redemptive act.
What exactly is the Orthodox understanding of this?

yes, it is about the Incarnation, where humanity and Divinity are truly united in Christ, and human nature is also perfectly deified in Him. that is the mediation, and it is only because of the Incarnation that saints' intercessions are possible.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and I should add, when we speak of Christ's redemption, we mean everything He does from the Annunciation to Pentecost.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I sometimes wonder if this passage is used to argue against intercessions by the Saints, do those who would apply it this way also refrain from praying for one another, in order to be consistent?

I would hope not. Scripture also makes is plain that we ought to always pray for one another.

Being the only mediator does not mean He is the only possible intercessor.

Of course, Matt pointed out the important understanding. I'm just commenting on one side point.


Oh, btw, that seems a very effective intro regarding forum area and desired scope. Especially appearing in the OP itself.

 

[FenderTL5]

Oh, btw, that seems a very effective intro regarding forum area and desired scope. Especially appearing in the OP itself.

So far so good. I really didn't want to chase a bunch of off-topic rabbits.

I sometimes wonder if this passage is used to argue against intercessions by the Saints, do those who would apply it this way also refrain from praying for one another, in order to be consistent?

I would hope not. Scripture also makes is plain that we ought to always pray for one another.

Being the only mediator does not mean He is the only possible intercessor.

Of course, Matt pointed out the important understanding. I'm just commenting on one side point.

Agree. One of the other sidebar issues this gets miss-applied to is confession.

The mediation, as I see it and Matt seems to be affirming, is in God becoming man, 100% God/100% man, that by becoming like Him we can have communion with God. The mediation of Christ is what allows Theosis to be possible. It's quite an extraordinary concept.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I didn't even think of Confession, but you're right, that I hear it there most often.

I'm not sure exactly of the Catholic theology of Confession, (or Lutherans, I think they sometimes practice it, or did?). But from our point of view, I wouldn't say the priest is mediating?

The priest of course prays for God to forgive us, and hears our Confession (which is to Christ) as a witness.

But as far as I'm aware, it's never actually "required" in Orthodoxy as some sort of obligation, but is rather a tool. Unless you count that it is a way to restore communion when it has been broken. And we don't deny that we can go to God directly for forgiveness ... the prayers of the Church are full of personal requests for forgiveness.

I think it has been seen at times that the priest somehow blocks direct access to God by the laity. I know that's a charge that has been made against Catholics. But whether it is even a reasonable charge I have no idea. I am weary of all the charges one denomination makes against another which often aren't even true.

But at any rate, I get zero sense of that in any way in the Orthodox Church. The priest works to bring us TO Christ in various ways, then tends to get out of the way and encourage us to grow in Christ on our own. He supports us in our efforts, but we are expected to actively participate in our own salvation. What more could we ask for?

 

[All4Christ]

I didn't even think of Confession, but you're right, that I hear it there most often.

I'm not sure exactly of the Catholic theology of Confession, (or Lutherans, I think they sometimes practice it, or did?). But from our point of view, I wouldn't say the priest is mediating?

The priest of course prays for God to forgive us, and hears our Confession (which is to Christ) as a witness.

But as far as I'm aware, it's never actually "required" in Orthodoxy as some sort of obligation, but is rather a tool. Unless you count that it is a way to restore communion when it has been broken. And we don't deny that we can go to God directly for forgiveness ... the prayers of the Church are full of personal requests for forgiveness.

I think it has been seen at times that the priest somehow blocks direct access to God by the laity. I know that's a charge that has been made against Catholics. But whether it is even a reasonable charge I have no idea. I am weary of all the charges one denomination makes against another which often aren't even true.

But at any rate, I get zero sense of that in any way in the Orthodox Church. The priest works to bring us TO Christ in various ways, then tends to get out of the way and encourage us to grow in Christ on our own. He supports us in our efforts, but we are expected to actively participate in our own salvation. What more could we ask for?

Is confession really optional? I wasn't able to be Chrismated until I confessed.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Is confession really optional? I wasn't able to be Chrismated until I confessed.

Well I do know that Confession is handled a bit differently between jurisdictions. In fact, IMO, it is really our major difference.

Thinking now I may have misspoken.

I was not ALLOWED to confess before baptism (I really wanted to do a general confession because I struggled for a while having so much old stuff that was never confessed, especially since that wasn't my only baptism). My goddaughter who was just chrismated was told to come to confession soon after so she can discuss with Father how her prayers are going, because I only gave her some very basic guidelines. Yet I know when I went to a Russian priest, he wasn't going to allow me to receive the Eucharist since it had been about 10 days since I had confessed until he heard I had been receiving the Eucharist nearly every day.

Soooooo ....

Is it "required"? I'm not sure? It's possible for Greeks to go years without Confession, but of course we are strongly encouraged to confess regularly.

But I may have spoken too broadly. It may have been very wrong to say that for some jurisdictions. Thank you for pointing that out. I do apologize to all.

 

[All4Christ]

Well I do know that Confession is handled a bit differently between jurisdictions. In fact, IMO, it is really our major difference.

Thinking now I may have misspoken.

I was not ALLOWED to confess before baptism (I really wanted to do a general confession because I struggled for a while having so much old stuff that was never confessed, especially since that wasn't my only baptism). My goddaughter who was just chrismated was told to come to confession soon after so she can discuss with Father how her prayers are going, because I only gave her some very basic guidelines. Yet I know when I went to a Russian priest, he wasn't going to allow me to receive the Eucharist since it had been about 10 days since I had confessed until he heard I had been receiving the Eucharist nearly every day.

Soooooo ....

Is it "required"? I'm not sure? It's possible for Greeks to go years without Confession, but of course we are strongly encouraged to confess regularly.

But I may have spoken too broadly. It may have been very wrong to say that for some jurisdictions. Thank you for pointing that out. I do apologize to all.

Can you be chrismated without confession?

ETA - I misread...hold on...

 

[All4Christ]

I wasn't given absolution (the concluding prayers) until after Chrismation, but I was required to have a confession (with delayed absolution) before chrismation. I'm honestly surprised it is different in the Greek Church. I wonder which is the older practice?

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think practices of receiving believers from outside the Church have always varied, and that's really what we are talking about, aren't we?

 

[All4Christ]

I think practices of receiving believers from outside the Church have always varied, and that's really what we are talking about, aren't we?

Pure curiosity Confession originally was to the entire Church, so I'm curious if that was a part of the entrance to the Church, except to the entire Church not just the priest? Another subject to research

 

[~Anastasia~]

Pure curiosity Confession originally was to the entire Church, so I'm curious if that was a part of the entrance to the Church, except to the entire Church not just the priest? Another subject to research

Interesting question.

My GUESS (it is no more than that) is that there was no Confession. Baptism was considered to regenerate, and forgive sins. When Confession was still being done to the whole assembly, I'm sure there were few (if any) baptized believers coming in from outside the Church. Again, guessing, but that's what I would expect?

 

[prodromos]

I suspect that confession before the whole Church may have often given rise to scandal. And I imagine there are often things confessed that would not be safe for children to hear.

 

[ArmyMatt]

private confession also came about I believe from the rise of the monastic influence. the Fathers and Mothers of the desert would typically only confess to their spiritual father and not publicly since they lived in seclusion.

 

[FenderTL5]

I gave a 'life confession' when I came into the church.
Whether that was just prior or after the Chrismation - I can't recall.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I gave a life confession prior to being received into the Church, but I don't think I was absolved at the time

 

[All4Christ]

I gave a life confession prior to being received into the Church, but I don't think I was absolved at the time

That was how it worked with me as well. Life confession before; absolution through the chrismation.

 

[Amazing Horse]

I love you

 

[All4Christ]

If you wanted to discuss it , then maybe let everybody discuss it ? What's point of discussing homosexuality in city where every man would be homosexual ?

I'm not sure I follow this question...could you clarify? I also don't see how it is related to the topic of One mediator with God.

By the way, welcome to The Ancient Way forum!