~ Son wants to join a death metal band ~

[ladodgers6]

May the issue is, whether the other young men would make suitable friends, rather than the issue being the music, necessarily. This is all part of a wider question of whether a young person with a Christian upbringing is following his parents' faith example in his late teen years.

Great point!

 

[faroukfarouk]

Great point!

I would think so, anyway; but it's a broader issue, really.

 

[faroukfarouk]

How do you know he will drink, or use drugs playing in a band?

Well, exactly. The issue there would be the sort of friends he would have, not the music.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Hey everyone, I would like to get some opinions from others on something. Our son (18) is a very talented drummer but he's only interested in one type of music - that hardcore death metal stuff.

Well, a talented local band recently contacted him seeking a drummer and he wants to join them. He's obviously not a Christian, nor are any of the band members, so my wife is having an issue with this and doesn't want him to join. I have an opposite view of this but would like opinions. I say let him join and learn from the experience while we pray for his safety and leave it in God's hands. If we don't let him he will rebel and his talents will go to waste. If he joins and gets the exposure then maybe some other band might discover him, which may lead to bigger and better things, or even guys who might be Christians. There are Christian metal bands. He claims he doesn't even care about the lyrics which I get, you can't even understand them and he says he just likes it because he can play fast.

I looked up the guys on FB and they are the typical kids. No, they aren't Christian and they do some cussing and normal fallen-world behavior stuff but that's expected. Nothing they were posting really surprised me. They don't post stuff like Satan worship or anything extreme going against God. Really, there's no mention of religion in their posts so they're typical lost souls like most of the world.

Now, I haven't listened to their lyrics because I can't understand that type of scream singing and I can't find their words online. Anyway, what I'd like to do is invite the group over the our home and show an example and get to know them. After all, who am I to judge? The problem is the wife wants absolutely no part of that. She's quick to judge so-to-speak.

Any advice on how to handle this or what to say to my wife? I'd really like to meet these guys and I don't want to keep denying our talented son from enjoying his gift God has given him.

You made the best decision ever. Wife must obey you according to the Bible. If she doesn't she's no good wife going against the word of God. And so you have a much bigger problem right there than your son, a so-called Christian who spits at the word of God.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hey guys, no need to argue about music styles, this isn't about that right now. I've listened to the Christian version of "metalcore" music and I don't know if it's called "deathcore" or not, but it sounds exactly the same and I personally don't like it but the words are also different. Is it pleasing to God? I can't answer that. To me, it's disturbing but that's my personal music taste. Regardless, the band my son wants to join is a traditional "metalcore" band, not a Christian band. So, the lyrics are not really positive.

Now back to the original point...

My wife doesn't want him to join, I think we shouldn't hold him back and to pray to God for protection and allow my son to make his own choices. We can meet the band members as human beings (which they are) and there's our opportunity to lead by example and also a chance to witness, or plant seeds in a subtle way, not force anything. I don't even know these guys, nor does my wife. They might be really cool and loving kids who just prefer that style of music. Again, we are never to judge.

...so, CoolDude, if your son is wanting to join this metal band, what's going to keep him away from the accompanying drugs and casual sex, among other things, that might come with that affiliation? I'm asking because everything is done within a social context, and it is a rare thing when we do anything without being affected also by the context of the social environment in which we do it.

Just a thought.

Peace,
2PhilVoid

 

[Blade]

" Locking a kid in a room to avoid this fallen world "... yeah.. I dont know.. but I LIKE that idea! For us.. its me that has the faith. My two boys are 24/27. The 27 LOVED goth.. and LOVED Raves. Yet I prayed over them before they were born. I spoke what our Father said over them ..how they would be. No they didnt go to Church all the time.. sometimes not a all. Two young girls go to see a band back stage... the door guy lets the 1st girl in but not the 2nd. She asked why? He said because she was a Christian.

Now it was clear the girl didnt follow Christs ways..yet.. MOM always prayed over her. Young man sneaks out goes to a party.. did it allot. Well friend comes up to him and says.. your grandma at the door.. haha..no way. Yes. He asked..HOW did you find me? Grandma says.. the lord gave her the address.

My point is...like our dear brother said.. pray pray and pray. See the short is.... we pray...gives God a right to go in. Take David.. Psa 4...starts with "hear me when I call unto you lord".. just 2-3 verses we read " I KNOW you will hear when I call unto you lord"...FAITH. We go by how we FEEL what we SEE..

Just trying to BUILD help your faith One day after Church when I was young.. that afternoon I went for a walk alone. Stood by this tree and said "lord I know you called me but I dont know to what". That night we the choir would sing then go out and pray for the people. So we get done I see some man is praying for Roy that was in the Choir. I knew it was God and thought if I go over maybe he will pray for me.

I go over there and .. he put his hands on me and said "my son I have called you but you dont know to what but I will open all the doors..you have great faith.." so forth so on.

Now.. I was alone by that tree. No one can ever tell me GOD never heard me. So He hears YOU/US there are THINGS between us and Him.. the fight. Took that angel what 21 days to get back to Daniel..yet what did that angel say? God HEARD you the moment you prayed.

And our Father loves our kids SO much more then us. So hows my boy that was GOTH and Raves? You think I didnt kick my self thinking I was not strong enough and hard.. to many times I was.. but.. goth he is not.. and Raves.. he does not go to any more. I did nothing. See I have dealt with pain.. same boy at about 4.. falls.. eyes go back.. is as dead.. anyway.. the ambulance never left.. he opens the door says.. hes not responding to anything (wow wow.. still hurts..) I turn and say.. Father no matter what I will NEVER blame you. The door opens and now he sounds WAY happier saying. HES RESPONDING. They take him in a helicopter. I get to the hospital and I can hear my baby saying "DADDY".

So..for me.. I dont care what it looks like sounds likes feels like. Our FATHER through JESUS CHRIST has not...will not EVER give up on US or our family friends. Yes.. FREE will plays a part in this. Yet. God is REALLY good at whispering.. I guess I could have just said.. I agree pray..

I am no speaker or writer. I only share what I KNOW. Not hope is true..not boasting...but I have seen to much to NOT KNOW as the song playing right now "More then Conquerors, Steven Curtis chapman" AMEN! Glory to JESUS!

And prayer.. its a battle field. Its not easy. You/we start to pray..I mean really pray.. the enemy takes notice..to many stop there. See satan can only LIE and BLUFF.. stand.. and then STAND! Keep pressing IN. For you Father and HIS angels are AT WORK! Cant see it cant feel it.. but PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS..with all my heart PRAISE you Father for being faithful..when so many times I am not.

Sorry I went on so long..didnt mean to offend.

 

[hedrick]

No one has suggested actual discussion with the OP's son. I find that a bit weird. He's 18. At 18, the goal isn't to make decisions for him and get him to follow, it's to help him make decisions.

You might want to consider discussing concerns and see if you can agree on how to deal with them. If you're concerned about the effect on him, does he understand the concern? Is he willing to reexamine the situation over time, and agree on ways to look at what's happening to him? If his main concern is finding a way to use drums, has he considered other options?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

After reading this thread, it is obvious that the "weak" Christians actually think they are the "strong" ones.

It is interesting to read 1 Corinthians 8 replacing "(eat/eating of) food" with "(listen/listening to) music genres".

One thing is for sure, we need to protect the fragile consciences of our weaker brothers. I believe the context of chapter 8 suggests that "stumbling" our brothers means to provoke or pressure them to participate in an activity they think is sinful. Paul will not eat meat sacrificed to an idol in front of a weak Christian if it means they would be pressured to do the same. If they did, they would be thinking they are sinning against God, even if the activity itself is truly spiritually benign.

This doesn't mean we have to walk on egg shells around weak Christians. For this would force all Christians to perpetually act as the weakest Christian in their local community. It just means that there are times we might need to temporarily avoid (become weak) a behavior for a time to strengthen them up in truth. This involves opening up a dialogue about their concerns (which is exactly what Paul does in this letter). Eat what you want and listen to what you want in private, but in your public life you'll need to be ready to defer any behavior that would first require a defense to a weaker Christian so they don't get mixed signals and feel influenced to mimic with the wrong mindset.

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[Bible Highlighter]

Goodness. You said you checked my posts. If you click on the post number under my user name a list comes up. On the very first page, the eighth one under the post to which you responded was the following"

Dear Jay:

Well, I am telling you again that I looked in your profile and clicked on the information page and I found nothing. Also, I did a Google Search using the keywords:

JayW Trinity site:christianforums.com​

and came up with nothing. If you were to do a Google Search on the word Trinity using the words Jason0047 site:christianforums.com , you will find a thread on my defense of the Trinity at the top of the Google search results (See this link here).

Anyways, I did a quick search and found nothing, so that is why I asked you. There is no reason to get bent out of shape about this. I am just saying if I was in your shoes, I would leave no room for error for anyone to think the wrong thing by posting something in my signature about the deity of Christ.

Are you a sinner saved by grace?

11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world." (Titus 2:11-12).

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).


And there are of course many more verses like these, as well.

This isn't exactly a game of Where's Waldo, nor do you have to be Columbo to figure it out.

The rest of your post is predicated on your belief that good or evil music is determined not by the lyrics, but by the sound of the instruments being played. That's your opinion, and again, you're entitled to it. But it doesn't constitute fact.

To promote possible introspection, I will offer a suggestion regarding the following:

Not true.

A. Heavy Metal Music is aggressive or angry sounding.

Here is what the Bible says about “Aggression” or “Anger” under the New Testament.

Aggression (Anger):

19 “Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God” (James 1:19-20).

“Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice.” (Ephesians 4:31).

“That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment” (Matthew 5:22).

“But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.” (Colossians 3:8).

“Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.” (Psalms 37:8).

“19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21).

“Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.” (Ecclesiastes 7:9).

26 “...let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.” (Ephesians 4:26-27).


B. What about New Testament Scripture that talks of anger favorably?

Did not Jesus get angry? Yes, but Jesus is God. It is written, Vengeance is Mine, I will repay saith the Lord.

Does not Scripture say to be ye angry and sin not in Ephesians 4:26?

Yes, but it is an anger that is only temporary (or short) so as to “not sin.” For we are told not to let the sun go down upon our wrath. In other words, we are not to sleep in anger. We are told a few verses down that we are to put away anger and wrath (Ephesians 4:31). So anger is only a brief tool used to get us to stop sinning so that we can walk holy and upright and put away anger out of our lives. For the Christian life is supposed to be without sin. Anger was never meant to be a forever thing in our lives. We are not to be slaves to sin constantly getting angry at ourselves for sinning. The intended purpose of the anger is (at ourselves) to lead us to repentance. This anger is not to be directed outwards towards others. So the intended goal of anger here is temporary and brief and it is not long and dragged out like the anger that is expressed in a Death Metal Song.


C. Do not imitate the world:

Christian Heavy Metal is a carbon copy in style of Death Metal Music. There is no distinction in sound when you listen between Christian Heavy Metal and Death Metal Music.

First, many Christian Heavy Metal bands have long hair. The Bible condemns being effinminate (See 1 Corinthians 6:9).

Second the Bible tells us to no not have an appearance of evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22). Yet, these Christian Metal bands promote skulls and death, etc. and they look just as bad and evil as the secular Metal bands.

I don't want an answer, because it's none of my business,

You don't want to answer because you realize that it is not in any way Christian.

but consider how your house,

The New Testament records how the apostles owned their own houses.

car...

A car allows a person to focus more on the things that truly matter to them like God, their family, fellowship with other believers, etc. I would say that a horse is the same as a car and Jesus never condemned the idea that we could not have horses.

computer on which you're typing...

Computers can actually be really cheap. When one factors in their yearly salary, it is but a small fraction of their yearly income that can better their life. Today, alot of jobs will only accept a resume by the internet. Also, one can do a lot of good in getting the good news out there by means of having a computer and an internet connection. You can reach a lot of people for God's work.

compares to the possessions of the homeless man living under an overpass.

We should love the poor more and make more sacrifices in loving them in our walk with Christ. For the love we show to them is the love we show to Christ.

Before we preach to others, we should first preach to ourselves.

I believe God does call us at some point to give it all up. But I do not think it is an overnight process for all of us. It takes time to study God's Word, and learn to apply all of God's commands within the New Testament where we will love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. It is a process of God making us holy here so as to accomplish his will and not our own. To learn to die daily to ourselves bit by bit and piece by piece.

Anyways, may God bless you.
And you may you please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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[Citanul]

Christian Heavy Metal is a carbon copy in style of Death Metal Music. There is no distinction in sound when you listen between Christian Heavy Metal and Death Metal Music.

So according to you, this is death metal.

You might want to rethink that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So according to you, this is death metal.

You might want to rethink that.

For one, 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemns being effeminate.
Two, I am not denying there are different levels of worldly Christian bands that sound and look like their secular counter parts. Three, it is still a spirit of aggressiveness and or anger of which the New Testament condemns.

However, for your information, Stryper is considered a Christian Heavy Metal Band.

Stryper - Wikipedia

Side Note:

Also, the intended purpose of music is to worship God. You really cannot do that with most of Stryper's songs. It songs like you are just listening to a secular 80's rock band whereby you just want to bang your head and act all cool. It's night and day compared to listening to worship music like Hillsong, etc. People who say Christian Heavy Metal is just a different style of music and it is no different than praise and worship music do not know what they are talking about. 1 Corinthians 8 does not apply here because listening to evil music is not the same as eating food that cannot technically be turned into something evil. Death Metal Music is evil because it is aggressive and angry sounding (of which the New Testament condemns). Food in and of itself is not evil (Regardless of what was done to it prior). Music is behavioral (Thereby it is a moral issue). Food is not behavioral (But it is a source of nourishment for the body).


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[Polar Bear Quest]

Honestly, if he's an adult there's nothing you can really do. If he's still under your roof then it's your roof and your rules so you can tell him not to join the band. I used to listen to metal music myself, terrible blasphemous stuff, it's typical for most metal bands. I stopped listening to music as I got over and completely dumped it once I found God.

Once one finds God truly the other things in this world won't matter and ultimately until then all you can do is pray daily.

 

[Citanul]

However, for your information, Stryper is considered a Christian Heavy Metal Band.

Which is exactly my point. You claimed that Christian heavy metal sounds exactly like death metal. Well, Stryper don't.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I find the argument, "He is an adult. There is nothing you can do" a flawed one.

My friends are all adults and through they years they have done plenty to warn, protect, persuade, admonish and rebuke me, and I have them.

Don't treat him as you would a child. Treat him as you would a man, and Christian men don't let other Christian men walk headlong into danger without any attempt at stopping them. What loving person would?

To not see the obvious danger in this decision is another subject. . .

 

[Phil 1:21]

There is no reason to get bent out of shape about this. I am just saying if I was in your shoes, I would leave no room for error for anyone to think the wrong thing by posting something in my signature about the deity of Christ

Oh, I'm not remotely bent out of shape. Creeped out a bit? Perhaps. And thank you for your advice (?), but possibly the last thing in life that concerns me is leaving a bread crumb trail so an anonymous person on a message board can properly vet my Christian beliefs on the trinity if they decide to do so. If that kind of thing concens you, so be it.

Heavy Metal Music is aggressive or angry sounding.

...in your opinion, which doesn't constitute fact.

You don't want to answer because you realize that it is not in any way Christian.

Um...sure, if you say so. I'll have to check with my friends at the Kingdom Hall though.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Which is exactly my point. You claimed that Christian heavy metal sounds exactly like death metal. Well, Stryper don't.

Death Metal is an extreme subgenre of Heavy Metal. When a person refers to Death Metal, they can say Heavy Metal because it is a subgenre of it.

Death metal - Wikipedia

Also, nowhere did I say that Death Metal sounds like regular Heavy Metal.

Side Note:

Arguing about what I said within the thread is not the topic of this thread. If you disagree, then start another thread. Thank you.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh, I'm not remotely bent out of shape. Creeped out a bit? Perhaps. And thank you for your advice (?), but possibly the last thing in life that concerns me is leaving a bread crumb trail so an anonymous person on a message board can properly vet my Christian beliefs on the trinity if they decide to do so. If that kind of thing concens you, so be it.

Yes, you are bent out of shape because you keep acting like I should have known about it even despite my efforts in searching on it. Also, if you do not care about the anonymous person knowing whether or not you believe in the truth of the Trinity this is very telling about how you regard the truths of the Bible and people.

...in your opinion, which doesn't constitute fact.

Please address the actual verses instead of making broad sweeping statements of opinion.

Um...sure, if you say so. I'll have to check with my friends at the Kingdom Hall though.

Is discussing God's Word a joke to you?

Side Note:

Please do not reply. This is not the topic of discussion of this thread.
If you disagree and want to reply, start another thread. Thank you.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, this is not the place for discussion on these things. If folks here want to discuss further these topics, start another thread. In the mean time, my advice to CoolGuy68 is to research Heavy Metal and the Bible on the internet. I would advice that he also look at all the bad things that can happen to the person who joins a Heavy Metal band on the internet, as well. Then I would pray about it and ask God if you are doing the right thing. Pray and seek the Scriptures and do not come away with wanting to do your own thing versus what God desires.


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[Citanul]

Arguing about what I said within the thread is not the topic of this thread. If you disagree, then start another thread. Thank you.

I don't feel strongly enough about this to create a new thread, but you are correct that it's not the topic of this one. So even though I still disagree with the statement you made, I won't debate it further.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't feel strongly enough about this to create a new thread, but you are correct that it's not the topic of this one. So even though I still disagree with the statement you made, I won't debate it further.

Contending for the truth of God's Word is more important to me than arguing over how the world defines different categories of music. But to each their own.

May God bless you.

Side Note:

May Coolguy forgive us for interrupting his thread. Peace be unto him and to you.


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