~ Son wants to join a death metal band ~

Citanul

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I'm not sure if any of this has already been said as I may have missed it in the discussion around Christian death metal which dominated the thread, but my suggestion to the OP would be to let him know that you are uncomfortable about it, but that does stem from not liking the music and there being a lot of stereotypes and misconceptions around it (some of which have been mentioned in this thread). Having an open and honest discussion with him is definitely the way to go.

And not just with him. Since he would be going to spend a lot of time with his bandmates, try making an effort to get to know them e.g. inviting them around to your house for a barbecue. That way you would have an opportunity can find out more about why they like the music and what sort of lyrics and imagery they're planning to use. Even though it's called "death" metal, not all bands sing about death, and despite what I think may have been said in this thread, it is not the case that most metal bands are satanic.

And you would also be able to discover what their interests and plans are outside of music as a lot of metal musicians are just regular people who you wouldn't give a second glance to if you encountered them on the street. I used to work with the drummer for a metal band (not death metal, although they did have some elements in their music), who was well-liked by everyone, well-respected in the company and a big loss when he left, has an MBA, and has been happily married for a couple of years now. Apart from the drumming, he was into watching sport, binging on TV series, and video games - all completely normal pastimes. And if you were to see him, you'd probably think he was a hipster rather than a metalhead, so in most aspects of his life just a regular guy.

That's not to say that you should necessarily just give your son the green light as maybe your fears aren't completely unfounded. But it's definitely a good idea to first take the time to find out a bit more rather than simply raising objections at the words "death metal".
 
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Hey everyone, I would like to get some opinions from others on something. Our son (18) is a very talented drummer but he's only interested in one type of music - that hardcore death metal stuff.

Well, a talented local band recently contacted him seeking a drummer and he wants to join them. He's obviously not a Christian, nor are any of the band members, so my wife is having an issue with this and doesn't want him to join. I have an opposite view of this but would like opinions. I say let him join and learn from the experience while we pray for his safety and leave it in God's hands. If we don't let him he will rebel and his talents will go to waste. If he joins and gets the exposure then maybe some other band might discover him, which may lead to bigger and better things, or even guys who might be Christians. There are Christian metal bands. He claims he doesn't even care about the lyrics which I get, you can't even understand them and he says he just likes it because he can play fast.

I looked up the guys on FB and they are the typical kids. No, they aren't Christian and they do some cussing and normal fallen-world behavior stuff but that's expected. Nothing they were posting really surprised me. They don't post stuff like Satan worship or anything extreme going against God. Really, there's no mention of religion in their posts so they're typical lost souls like most of the world.

Now, I haven't listened to their lyrics because I can't understand that type of scream singing and I can't find their words online. Anyway, what I'd like to do is invite the group over the our home and show an example and get to know them. After all, who am I to judge? The problem is the wife wants absolutely no part of that. She's quick to judge so-to-speak.

Any advice on how to handle this or what to say to my wife? I'd really like to meet these guys and I don't want to keep denying our talented son from enjoying his gift God has given him.

Well, if I was a father, I would not want to stand before God and have to explain to the Lord why I let my own son indulge in something dark and evil. For what kind of excuse could I give God if my son was potentially led down a dark path and destroyed himself (if something bad were to happen - God forbid). I would be partly to blame if I gave my son approval to do these things. It is the same with any other sin. Would I let my son indulge in fooling around with prostitution? No. Would I let my son go to drink parties and give him the keys to my car and tell him to drive home afterwards to experience life in making mistakes? No. See, playing in a death metal band is more than just the music. You open yourself up to drugs, alcohol, satanism, ear damage, anger issues, a lack of empathy towards all humans, etc. when you join a death metal band. You may think I am overreacting, but these things can happen to him and you WILL have to explain to God one day why you let your son indulge in going down a dark path of evil, even if he turned out okay. This is very serious. Would you join a death metal band? No, of course not. Then why would you let your son in whom you love to do something that is dark and evil. Think, my friend.

This is not a test of free will like in the Garden of Eden. God never wanted Adam to eat of the wrong tree. God did not approve of his doing so. There were consequences. Free will is not about you approving of him doing whatever he desires so as to make mistakes on his own. You have to stand up for Jesus and His good ways. Show Him you truly are different from this world. That light will either draw Him or repel your son. But that his choice. Stand for what is good and do not do this, my friend. Set a ground rule that he cannot join a death metal band while he is in your home. This may seem like you are pushing him away, but it is not about that at all. This is about YOU and him when you both stand before God. God is going to ask you, did you keep my commandments? For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. Not standing up for God and his good ways and not loving your son by allowing him to go down a dark path of sin is a very serious thing. If you let him do this, you will have to answer to God one day. I say this not to wound you or to get you upset, but I say this because God wants you to always do what is good and right. God wants you to be like He is. To be loving and good in all things we do.

I pray that you will see where I am coming from.
May God bless you and your family;
And may His peace be upon you.


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jimmyjimmy

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We've been presented with a false dichotomy by the OP. He claims the only two options are: 1) just let his son do this. 2) (which contains loaded language like, "force" and "shelter") is to stop his son from doing this and alienating his son in the meantime.

I think that's a false dichotomy. There is at least one more option.

Christian parents instruct, advise, counsel, and train their children. They protect their children from harm, not just by their yes or no, but through teaching them God's Word. God's word which clearly tells us:

Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."

He who walks with wise men will be wise, But the companion of fools will suffer harm.

How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers! But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them;. . .
 
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Daniel9v9

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Apologies if this has already been brought up, but there is really no difference in playing in a death metal band than any secular band; we shouldn't confound the style of the music with the message. In some sense, other secular music is just as godless as metal. e.g. Promiscuous lyrics are not any better than offensive lyrics. Just because some dress in black and shout doesn't make it any more sinful than, say, a boyband. I appreciate that it's often not perceived in this way, but from a Scriptural standpoint, if you were to compare typical pop lyrics with typical death metal lyrics; one speaks against the Sixth Commandment, the other the First. Neither are biblically sound.

Now, saying this, I think with music - as well as TV, movies, books, games and any entertainment and hobby - we have Christian liberty. viz., If it doesn't cause us to sin or distract us from God, it's fine in moderation. If your son doesn't care about the lyrics but enjoy playing, it's probably not any more harmful than socializing with other non-Christian friends.

There are other Christian artists in non-Christian metal bands.
 
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We've been presented with a false dichotomy by the OP. He claims the only two options are: 1) just let his son do this. 2) (which contains loaded language like, "force" and "shelter") is to stop his son from doing this and alienating his son in the meantime.

I think that's a false dichotomy. There is at least one more option.

Christian parents, instruct, advise, counsel, and train their children. They protect their children from harm, not just by their yes or no, but through teaching them God's Word. God's would which clearly tells us that:

Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."

He who walks with wise men will be wise, But the companion of fools will suffer harm.

How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers! But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them;. . .

You know Jimmy, Jimmy: This is the first time we agree here. I would have used words little more tactifully (in love), but the verses you quote are true. God's Word says these things and they should hit our heart when we read them.

May the Lord's love shine upon you today.


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CoolDude68

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I hear you my friend but at the same time we cannot lock an 18 year-old in a room and not allow them to make their own decisions. Yes, he lives under our roof but I don't think that matters as much as him understanding right from wrong where he has to make a choice. I had to learn from my bad decisions. God gave us free will. It would be different if he were 6 years old, but at 18 he knows better. Therefore, it's time we trust in him, remind him of the consequences for poor choices, pray to God to give him wisdom and let him live life and pursue his interests. I could confidently stand before God and explain that our son could only learn through experience and that's why I could not deny him of his passion of playing drums, even though he wasn't a believer yet. Once our son finally discovers God this will give him more appreciation like it has for me. I have walked through the valley of death many times, not only in the military but in civilian life and I've seen horrific things and participated in them as well before my relationship with God. I was a difficult transformation for God but He finally got me. Sometimes it's not easy. We must overcome evil and find the way ourselves.
 
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Apologies if this has already been brought up, but there is really no difference in playing in a death metal band than any secular band; we shouldn't confound the style of the music with the message. In some sense, other secular music is just as godless as metal. e.g. Promiscuous lyrics are not any better than offensive lyrics. Just because some dress in black and shout doesn't make it any more sinful than, say, a boyband. I appreciate that it's often not perceived in this way, but from a Scriptural standpoint, if you were to compare typical pop lyrics with typical death metal lyrics; one speaks against the Sixth Commandment, the other the First. Neither are biblically sound.

Now, saying this, I think with music - as well as TV, movies, books, games and any entertainment and hobby - we have Christian liberty. viz., If it doesn't cause us to sin or distract us from God, it's fine in moderation. If your son doesn't care about the lyrics but enjoy playing, it's probably not any more harmful than socializing with other non-Christian friends.

There are other Christian artists in non-Christian metal bands.

Are you aware that joining a Death Metal Band can lead to satanism, hearing damage, anger issues, a lack of empathy towards people, drugs, alcohol, multiple sex partners (disease), etc.?


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I hear you my friend but at the same time we cannot lock an 18 year-old in a room and not allow them to make their own decisions. Yes, he lives under our roof but I don't think that matters as much as him understanding right from wrong where he has to make a choice. I had to learn from my bad decisions. God gave us free will. It would be different if he were 6 years old, but at 18 he knows better. Therefore, it's time we trust in him, remind him of the consequences for poor choices, pray to God to give him wisdom and let him live life and pursue his interests. I could confidently stand before God and explain that our son could only learn through experience and that's why I could not deny him of his passion of playing drums, even though he wasn't a believer yet. Once our son finally discovers God this will give him more appreciation like it has for me. I have walked through the valley of death many times, not only in the military but in civilian life and I've seen horrific things and participated in them as well before my relationship with God. I was a difficult transformation for God but He finally got me. Sometimes it's not easy. We must overcome evil and find the way ourselves.

But allowing him to do it under your roof is like giving your stamp of approval on it. I really do hope you see that, my friend. To me, it is like you are giving him the keys to your car to go to a drink party. You are saying to your son,

"You have free will. You can drive home smash drunk and make mistakes. I sure did.
That is how I learned."

That is what it sounds like to me. It sounds like you want him to make mistakes. This is not the position we should take.

You have free will to say "no" to letting your son make the wrong decisions in life. Sure, you cannot force your child to do anything, but you should stand your ground on what is good and right.


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CoolDude68

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My approval doesn't matter how many shingles are on our roof. You don't understand, we don't approve his musical choice yet we cannot force him to not pursue his God-given talent. How do we know God is working out a plan for him? We don't. My parents did not approve a lot of things I did but at 18 I knew right from wrong and my dad always told me, "You're an adult now and it's time you made your own choices." That always stuck in my mind. Yes, I still lived at home but I always respected him for that.
 
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My approval doesn't matter how many shingles are on our roof. You don't understand, we don't approve his musical choice yet we cannot force him to not pursue his God-given talent. How do we know God is working out a plan for him? We don't. My parents did not approve a lot of things I did but at 18 I knew right from wrong and my dad always told me, "You're an adult now and it's time you made your own choices." That always stuck in my mind. Yes, I still lived at home but I always respected him for that.

But that is the world's way of thinking and it is not God's way of thinking. God never encourages to make the wrong choice. God always stands on the side of what is good.

To me, it is like you are giving him the keys to your car to go to a drink party. You are saying to your son,

"You have free will. You can drive home smash drunk and make mistakes. I sure did.
That is how I learned."

That is what it sounds like to me. It sounds like you want him to make mistakes. This is not the position we should take.

You have free will to say "no" to letting your son make the wrong decisions in life. Sure, you cannot force your child to do anything, but you should stand your ground on what is good and right. So far, it does not sound like you are standing on the side of what is good by allowing him to do this while he is living with you as a family (i.e. metaphorical phrase: "under your roof").


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CoolDude68

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The analogy used isn't a comparable one. How do you know he will drink, or use drugs playing in a band? That's not anything we can prevent because we can't hold his hand like a child all his life. In fairness, if he told us he was going to a party to drink then no, he would not be provided with keys.

We may have different insight on this and that's ok, but thank you for your opinions. My wife and I will continue to pray about it.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Oh good. You believe in the Trinity, and you believe that Jesus is God. You had me worried there for a second. I did not see anything in your profile and I could not find any posts from you in your defense of the Trinity and or the deity of Christ.

That's a bit of an odd non sequitur, especially since my religious affiliation listed under my name is "Christian." If you couldn't find any posts of mine regarding my belief in the deity of Jesus Christ it's because you didn't actually look. The very first page that comes up if you click to see my posts has numerous examples.

I do not see it as a personal experience; I see Heavy Metal as dark, wrong, and evil as a whole.

And that is your opinion. You're certainly entitled to it, just as others are entitled to point out that your opinion does not necessarily constitute a fact.
 
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The analogy used isn't a comparable one. How do you know he will drink, or use drugs playing in a band? That's not anything we can prevent because we can't hold his hand like a child all his life. In fairness, if he told us he was going to a party to drink then no, he would not be provided with keys.

We may have different insight on this and that's ok, but thank you for your opinions. My wife and I will continue to pray about it.

It seems like you were already convinced in your own mind before coming onto this forum. Do you think your wife would disagree with you if she were to read this thread?

Anyways, I pray you will see where I coming from. Only God can make you see this as being wrong.


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That's a bit of an odd non sequitur, especially since my religious affiliation listed under my name is "Christian." If you couldn't find any posts of mine regarding my belief in the deity of Jesus Christ it's because you didn't actually look. The very first page that comes up if you click to see my posts has numerous examples.

JW's refer to themselves sometimes as Christian. As for your testimony of the deity of Christ: I am just telling you I looked in your information profile (for testimony of faith) and I did Google search and couldn't find anything. If you had the info elsewhere, I simply did not see it. If I was in your shoes, I would say you believe in the deity of Christ in your subheading statement under your username so as not to avoid to cause confusion or say such a thing in your signature. But that is just me.

You said:
And that is your opinion. You're certainly entitled to it, just as others are entitled to point out that your opinion does not necessarily constitute a fact.

No it is not my opinion. It is why your still avoiding in explaining 1 John 2:15.


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Phil 1:21

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JW's refer to themselves sometimes as Christian. As for your testimony of the deity of Christ: I am just telling you I looked in your information profile (for testimony of faith) and I did Google search and couldn't find anything. If you had the info elsewhere, I simply did not see it. If I was in your shoes, I would say you believe in the deity of Christ in your subheading statement under your username so as not to avoid to cause confusion or say such a thing in your signature. But that is just me.

You said you looked at my posts. Obviously you didn't. That notwithstanding, is this really something that interests you so much, whether or not other people's faith meets your standards? A bit perplexing to me, but so be it.

No it is not my opinion. It is why your still avoiding in explaining 1 John 2:15.

I would be happy to discuss that passage when you understand it's context. When John talks about not loving the world he is talking about not loving evil. The two verses that follow (16 & 17) make that abundantly clear. The call to not love evil is scriptural; your opinion about what constitutes evil is not.
 
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The analogy used isn't a comparable one. How do you know he will drink, or use drugs playing in a band? That's not anything we can prevent because we can't hold his hand like a child all his life. In fairness, if he told us he was going to a party to drink then no, he would not be provided with keys.

We may have different insight on this and that's ok, but thank you for your opinions. My wife and I will continue to pray about it.

I believe the analogy is comparable because another father can say the same thing in regards to drinking and driving. The father could say his son could be lucky in driving home drunk every night because he was lucky in doing so when he was a kid. There is no guarantee he will get wrapped around tree or kill others or get arrested.

See, you have watched the videos at school or seen movies, commercials, and or heard stories of people you know about drunk driving warning you of the dangers of such a thing. You have been fed this information over and over so you get it. I would say joining a heavy metal band in your mind is nothing more than playing music and the negative risks are minimal. But you didn't get the memo. It was not fed to you over and over about the dangers of joining a death metal band. My suggestion is do your homework if you care about your son. Check to see all the bad things that could result of him joining a group like this. What are the chances of him doing the wrong things or in bad things happening to him if he joins such a group? Get the facts.


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You said you looked at my posts. Obviously you didn't. That notwithstanding, is this really something that interests you so much, whether or not other people's faith meets your standards? A bit perplexing to me, but so be it.

I am not going to read all your posts to find out what you believe. If your belief in the deity of Christ is not easily available for me to see in the most likely places for me to find, then I am not going to know about that.

Okay. Now you are asking me about whether or not a person's faith meets my standards? A belief in the deity of Christ is not my standard of truth but it is the standard of truth in God's Word. Now, it sounds like you are arguing against the importance in believing in the deity of Christ. Do you believe a person can reject the truth of the Trinity and the deity of Christ and still be saved?

You said:
I would be happy to discuss that passage when you understand it's context. When John talks about not loving the world he is talking about not loving evil. The two verses that follow (16 & 17) make that abundantly clear. The call to not love evil is scriptural; your opinion about what constitutes evil is not.

Love not the things in the world is what it says.

Context.

“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” (1 John 2:16-17).

Is not worldly music the lust of the flesh? Would not owning a Tesla Model X be the lust of the eyes and the pride of life? Does not worldly music promote the pride of life and it's worldly thinking that is contrary to God's Word? It says the world passes away and the lusts of thereof. There is a lust or a desire for these things in the world that will pass away. It is talking about things in the world. These things in the world arouse a lust or desire within you to have them. Why do you think Jesus said pick up your cross and deny yourself?

Notice the text says all that is in the world. All. All means all.


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Phil 1:21

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I am not going to read all your posts to find out what you believe. If your belief in the deity of Christ is not easily available for me to see in the most likely places for me to find, then I am not going to know about that.

Goodness. You said you checked my posts. If you click on the post number under my user name a list comes up. On the very first page, the eighth one under the post to which you responded was the following"


Are you a sinner saved by grace?

This isn't exactly a game of Where's Waldo, nor do you have to be Columbo to figure it out.


The rest of your post is predicated on your belief that good or evil music is determined not by the lyrics, but by the sound of the instruments being played. That's your opinion, and again, you're entitled to it. But it doesn't constitute fact.

To promote possible introspection, I will offer a suggestion regarding the following:

Would not owning a Tesla Model X be the lust of the eyes and the pride of life?

I don't want an answer, because it's none of my business, but consider how your house, car...computer on which you're typing...compares to the possessions of the homeless man living under an overpass. Before we preach to others, we should first preach to ourselves.
 
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You are still coming from the viewpoint that legislation is an arbitrary act against preferences.

If you see music as all fun and games, none of it will bother you.

If you see musical styles as deliberate forms of expression driven by cultural and spiritual factors, you will hear those factors in music.

You have the priviledge of being someone who "eat the meat" Paul spoke of in Corinthians. That's great. I'm happy for you. Others are more sensitive, and it really won't do you any good to try to talk them out of it.

After reading this thread, it is obvious that the "weak" Christians actually think they are the "strong" ones.

It is interesting to read 1 Corinthians 8 replacing "(eat/eating of) food" with "(listen/listening to) music genres".

One thing is for sure, we need to protect the fragile consciences of our weaker brothers. I believe the context of chapter 8 suggests that "stumbling" our brothers means to provoke or pressure them to participate in an activity they think is sinful. Paul will not eat meat sacrificed to an idol in front of a weak Christian if it means they would be pressured to do the same. If they did, they would be thinking they are sinning against God, even if the activity itself is truly spiritually benign.

This doesn't mean we have to walk on egg shells around weak Christians. For this would force all Christians to perpetually act as the weakest Christian in their local community. It just means that there are times we might need to temporarily avoid (become weak) a behavior for a time to strengthen them up in truth. This involves opening up a dialogue about their concerns (which is exactly what Paul does in this letter). Eat what you want and listen to what you want in private, but in your public life you'll need to be ready to defer any behavior that would first require a defense to a weaker Christian so they don't get mixed signals and feel influenced to mimic with the wrong mindset.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Maybe the issue is, whether the other young men would make suitable friends, rather than the issue being the music, necessarily. This is all part of a wider question of whether a young person with a Christian upbringing is following his parents' faith example in his late teen years.
 
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