Drop your theological errors off here...

[Apex]

Drop your

belief that the Holy Spirit leads us individually in interpreting scripture,

I believe many of your points. However, this one absolutely needs to be dropped. This opens the door to errant subjective readings.

 

[truefiction1]

Let me get this straight OP...you're telling me to ease up on the Jesus praying, and reserve some prayers for Mary?? Based on which scriptures?

I seem to recall the wise men worshiping Jesus and not Mary.

That is correct. Wise men do worship Christ our God, and they have the spiritual good sense to appropriately venerate His mother. The Orthodox strive to pray to Jesus continuously, without ever ceasing, while still asking for others to pray for them (especially the mother of God}. Today our pop culture would call this "multitasking". "Spiritual maturity", however, is probably a more fitting label for this Orthodox Christian practice.

 

[Marvin Knox]

We don't claim salvation until we get there. Forgive me...

"Never the less when the Son of man comes will He find faith on the earth."

In the case of the Orthodox church - apparently not.

By the way - thinking that you need to ask forgiveness from your brothers and sisters every time you discuss a point of doctrine with them is theological error in spades.

Best to drop it IMO.

 

[truefiction1]

8 The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. - Romans 10

I think that the whole thrust of Scripture is that one must continue in this faith, "persevering to the end" in it, and until that end arrives, who knows if they are among the saved?

"Never the less when the Son of man comes will He find faith on the earth."

In the case of the Orthodox church - apparently not.

He will find Faith when He returns, and mostly in the hearts of pious Orthodox worshipers. If you'd ever met an Orthodox Christian of True Belief, you would have become aware of this. How many of us must endure torture and being killed for our Love of Christ and His Gospel before the ignorant will open the eyes of their hearts and close their slanderous mouths?

 

[Matthew B]

I believe some of what the Catholics believe is wrong. I am not a Catholic for that reason! Some are listed on your list. Praying to Mary is one of them.

 

[truefiction1]

I will not be coming to an Orthodox Church to worship.. Ever..

I find this, if true, to be mournfully sad, because what the Faithful will be doing for all of Eternity in the Kingdom of God is going to be what is done during Liturgy in Orthodox Churches.

 

[truefiction1]

I believe some of what the Catholics believe is wrong. I am not a Catholic for that reason! Some are listed on your list. Praying to Mary is one of them.

The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not. You state that you don't agree with certain things because you are using "reason". All we ever ask is that "reason", and not unconscious, errant feelings about how our Father in heaven looks upon us, is used in determining what the One, True God is bothered by and what He is not bothered by. He is bothered by sin, especially the sin of pride, and not by the humble asking of prayers from the mother of Christ our God.

I'm not Roman Catholic, just in case I seem to be arguing as one.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I think that the whole thrust of Scripture is that one must continue in this faith, "persevering to the end" in it, and until that end arrives, who knows if they are among the saved?
He will find Faith when He returns, and mostly in the hearts of pious Orthodox worshipers. If you'd ever met an Orthodox Christian of True Belief, you would have become aware of this. How many of us must endure torture and being killed for our Love of Christ and His Gospel before the ignorant will open the eyes of their hearts and close their slanderous mouths?

We dont claim salvation until we get there.

I'm sorry if what I said was offensive to anyone.

I'm sure there are many wonderful people in the Orthodox church just as there are in every other denomination - whether they be Catholic, Protestant, or one of what we would call a cult.

But IMO simply hoping that one will be able to have salvation when all is said and done is not the same as a justifying faith in the work of Jesus Christ at Calvary on our behalf.

Faith and hope are not the same thing.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

"Assurance" is what is obviously lacking in the quote by"OrthodoxyUSA". Therefore it is not faith. It is something else entirely (i.e. hope).

Whatever that quote represents - it is not saving faith as I see it.

Obviously I hope that people who confess such a lack of faith will be saved in the end - just as I have hope for cult members. I just don't have any assurance concerning their final state (i.e. I have my doubts about their salvation no matter how nice and how religious they are in this life as I'm pretty sure many of that persuasion are).

I'm not judging anyone personally - just their doctrine as express in the quote from "OrthodoxyUSA" ans statements from others of a similar theology.

 

[amariselle]

I find this, if true, to be mournfully sad, because what the Faithful will be doing for all of Eternity in the Kingdom of God is going to be what is done during Liturgy in Orthodox Churches.

How do you know this?

 

[amariselle]

The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not. You state that you don't agree with certain things because you are using "reason". All we ever ask is that "reason", and not unconscious, errant feelings about how our Father in heaven looks upon us, is used in determining what the One, True God is bothered by and what He is not bothered by. He is bothered by sin, especially the sin of pride, and not by the humble asking of prayers from the mother of Christ our God.

I'm not Roman Catholic, just in case I seem to be arguing as one.

You should look up some "Marian Prayers", (some specifically state that the one praying is "consecrating" themselves to be her "slave", and that they offer themselves, body and soul and all they own to Mary to do with as she wishes. Other prayers also say that they consecrate not only themselves, but the entire world/human race to Mary)

Also, do some research into the various "Marian Apparitions" and what they said/did. (Also, what is done by the thousands of people who make pilgrimages to those shrines around the world every year.)

What the Catholic Church has done with Mary far exceeds anything even remotely Biblical, is in fact worship, and is not simply praying to her to ask her to pray for them. (Not that we should do even that, as contacting the dead is forbidden in Scripture.)

 

[Lily of Valleys]

The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not.

But Mary is dead, unless you think Mary is omniscient and omnipresent like God and can hear everyone's prayers to her all at the same time in the tomb.

 

[Dirk1540]

But Mary is dead, unless you think Mary is omniscient and omnipresent like God and can hear everyone's prayers to her all at the same time in the tomb.

Took the words out of my mouth...I mean away from my keyboard lol

 

[Matthew B]

The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not. You state that you don't agree with certain things because you are using "reason". All we ever ask is that "reason", and not unconscious, errant feelings about how our Father in heaven looks upon us, is used in determining what the One, True God is bothered by and what He is not bothered by. He is bothered by sin, especially the sin of pride, and not by the humble asking of prayers from the mother of Christ our God.

I'm not Roman Catholic, just in case I seem to be arguing as one.

Asking the living to pray is okay but asking the dead is not okay. It is clear that communicating with the dead is wrong from the scriptures.

 

[redleghunter]

belief in a 1000 year reign on earth,

I guess Irenaeus, Ignatius, Polycarp and a few other early church fathers were in error.

 

[redleghunter]

Drop your

Primacy,
filioque clause (and the Son),
Purgatory,
Indulgences,
beleif in hell as a physical place,
Dispensationalism,
disbelief in the Trinity,
belief in a pretribulation Rapture,
belief that we can't fall from grace,
Prosperity Gospel,
belief in a 1000 year reign on earth,
hellfire and damnation preaching,
belief that Icons are Idols,
praying to Mary is wrong,
depravity of man,
just the bible and me,
infallability of scriptures,
infalable personal translation of scriptures,
belief that the Holy Spirit leads us individually in interpreting scripture,
Predestination,
belief that works do not assist our salvation,
disbelief in prayers for the dead,
disbelief in prayers to Saints,
disbelief in infant baptism,
Refusal to recognize any form of liturgical worship,
attempts to predict the end of time from scripture,
salvition moment "I'm saved",
Mosaic laws,
following Judaism,
beliefs that the nation state of Israel is spiritual Israel,
belief that Jesus died to pay off God's anger,

and come sing in the liturgy at an Orthodox Christian Church and partake of Holy Communion.

No forgive me above...what gives.

 

[Mountainmike]

You mean theological opinions on your part.

It does not help a sensible debate to write such a deliberately polarizing post!.

Take primacy: The reality is the orthodox church itself cannot even agree on the primacy! On first among equals, or conveying authority, both flavours held by different parts of it. Or indeed what constitutes a valid council. Take the lack of agreement on validity of a pan orthodox council without such as antioch, bulgaria or georgian present, led to russian failing to attend, so losing all credibility as a "pan orthodox" and hitting at the heart of the "authority" issue, orthodox could not agree with each other to talks about decisions! Get your own house in order on doctrine, before throwing bricks at others!

It is sad that at one time orthodox did indeed recognise the primacy of honour, that the pope spoke with the authority of Peter clearly supported by writings of such as Augustine,till orthodox went their own way some time later. The primacy of Rome was clearly accepted at the time of the great written works of Christianity, the creed and canon, we now call the new testament. That alone should give orthodox pause for thought

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I guess Irenaeus, Ignatius, Polycarp and a few other early church fathers were in error.

About 1000 years reign on earth being Metaphor for neverending? We don't believe in infallability at any level.

You agreed as well...

"Who's kingdom shall have no end."

Let me ask you... what is supposed to happen at the end of that thousand years? Does Christ's reign end?

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

You mean theological opinions on your part.

It does not help a sensible debate to write such a deliberately polarizing post!.

Take primacy: The reality is the orthodox church itself cannot even agree on the primacy! On first among equals, or conveying authority, both flavours held by different parts of it. Or indeed what constitutes a valid council. Take the lack of agreement on validity of a pan orthodox council without such as antioch, bulgaria or georgian present, led to russian failing to attend, so losing all credibility as a "pan orthodox" and hitting at the heart of the "authority" issue, orthodox could not agree with each other to talks about decisions! Get your own house in order on doctrine, before throwing bricks at others!

It is sad that at one time orthodox did indeed recognise the primacy of honour, that the pope spoke with the authority of Peter clearly supported by writings of such as Augustine,till orthodox went their own way some time later. The primacy of Rome was clearly accepted at the time of the great written works of Christianity, the creed and canon, we now call the new testament. That alone should give orthodox pause for thought

Not on my personal part no...
Polarization is where debate comes from.
The Orthodox still believe in first among equals. But it's Constantinople now. Not Rome. Any authority that we would ascribe to St. Peter would also be found at Antioch where he was Bishop first.
Augustine is Roman.
Rome is in a state of penance at best. You cannot lead from that position.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Asking the living to pray is okay but asking the dead is not okay. It is clear that communicating with the dead is wrong from the scriptures.

Heb 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Not dead, but alive with Christ.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

How do you know this?

Because we can see heavenly worship in the book of Revelation.

Forgive me...