The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Neogaia777]

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[SkyWriting]

So it is probable that a believer can hate his brother and also be saved and or have eternal life?
...

Eternal life is something God grants to those who Trust in Him.
There is no bargaining or assurance based on any works.

 

[stuart lawrence]

That was before the cross. It's different now, you have to rightly divide.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

In Ephesians 4:32 its past tense, already forgiven, not conditional.

Paul said he magnifies his office, you're supposed to as well.

Pauls letters mean so much to me, as they undoubtedly do yo you. They are the key to understanding the new covenant in its fulness aren't they.
Thank you for the above post. That's a wonderful explanation. I am blessed to have read it

 

[Dan61861]

Read the book of Job. Job did wonderful works, he help the widow. He fed the poor. He believed he was righteous. There is one sentence in the whole book that made him right before God.

I am vile, what shall I answer thee.

The publican said something similar. Lord have mercy on me a sinner.

Jesus said he would be justified.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

Psalms 145:20 The Lord preserves all them that love him: but all the wicked will be destroyed.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[SBC]

SBC,

We can actually have a conversation without either of us insulting the other.

You and I had no issues conversing.
Until - your post to me # 2275.

Stuart and her have developed a relationship, a friendship throughout the years.

You jumped right into the middle of that friendship without understanding their relationship.

Okay Daniel, you have made your accusation.
Which post of mind are you basing your accusation on?

Instead of trying to have a dialog, you came in insulting.

Okay Daniel, again you have made your accusation.
Again, which post of mind are you basing your accusation on?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

"stuart lawrence" says: post # 2293

"When people preach: if you commit any sin you cannot be born again/ saved"

(they are guilty of believing as the Pharisees of Jesus day did. As sin is transgression if the law, they are really preaching: faultlessly observe the law of you will be condemned.)

First you make a statement;

"When people preach: if you commit any sin you cannot be born again/ saved"

Then you explain what you think that statement means;

"they" (who are preaching; IF you commit any sin you cannot be born again/saved) are guilty of believing as the Pharisees

Jesus said of such people.
They were hypocrites

And?

What is your point?

Your whole point is to accuse people you do not agree with; as being hypocrites!
Your "INTENT" is to "IMPLY" what you claim is what others have claimed; WHEN THEY HAVE NOT!

First of all;

No one (but you) in this entire OP has said;

if you commit any sin you can not be born again / saved.

Very cunning! Very tricky! Very devilish! Very obvious!
Very revealing, that you have not once "quoted" ANYONE else saying what you imply!

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Eternal life is something God grants to those who Trust in Him.
There is no bargaining or assurance based on any works.

But that is what 1 John 3:15 is teaching whether you accept what it says or not.

It says,

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

So a person who hates his brother is like a murderer and then it says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

So a person who hates his brother = no eternal life abiding in them.

This is not complicated in what this verse says.
It is very plain and simple.
It is also a verse that takes place after Christ's death (i.e. the New Testament), so you cannot claim that this is a different Covenant.

So yes, works do a play a part in our salvation. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
In other words, you cannot live out your faith and have no works and no holiness and say that you are still saved. James says faith without works is dead.

In short, one is not trusting in God if they are sinning or breaking God's laws.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read the book of Job. Job did wonderful works, he help the widow. He fed the poor. He believed he was righteous. There is one sentence in the whole book that made him right before God.

I am vile, what shall I answer thee.

The publican said something similar. Lord have mercy on me a sinner.

Jesus said he would be justified.

In Christ
Daniel

This is simply a distorted way of looking at the Scriptures.

1 John 3:7 says,
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

Acts of the Apostles 10:35 says,
"But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Also, try re-reading James 1, James 2 and Hebrews 11.

As for the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee:

The parable is not saying that the believer will endless live in a sinful state here upon this Earth. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says otherwise against that idea. The parable is saying that the Pharisee simply did not repent to God and instead he boasted in his own efforts without recognizing his own sin first. Yes, new believers can struggle with sin, but in time they mature and they overcome their sin. They move beyond the milk of the Word and they then are able to handle the meat of the Word.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Psalms 145:20 The Lord preserves all them that love him: but all the wicked will be destroyed.

In Christ
Daniel

How do we love Him?
Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Why are the wicked as wicked people?
Because they do sinful and wicked things obviously.
Jesus says a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit in Matthew 7.
In fact, Jesus's whole point was not a sin and still be saved gospel in Matthew 7 but it was about doing what He said. Matthew 7:26-27 make that fact abundantly clear.

Yes, we first need God's grace and we must realize we are ultimately saved by God's grace, but grace is not a license to sin but God grace is a means to overcome your sin.

To say that we are saved without any works or holiness is simply not true in what the Scriptures plainly say. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17); And without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). For Jesus is the author of salvation to all who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If one is not under a law of righteousness of some kind, then one is lawless or they are under a law of unrighteousness. When Paul talked about the Law he was referring to the Old Testament Law (Specifically the ceremonial and judicial laws). For Paul condemned things like circumcision (that was a part of the Old Law) (See Romans 3:1, and Galatians 5:2).

Moral law still applies. See Ephesians 5:5.



...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read the book of Job. Job did wonderful works, he help the widow. He fed the poor. He believed he was righteous. There is one sentence in the whole book that made him right before God.

I am vile, what shall I answer thee.

The publican said something similar. Lord have mercy on me a sinner.

Jesus said he would be justified.

In Christ
Daniel

In the book of Job, it says this,
"And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding." (Job 28:28).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't see how you think I am disagreeing with that scripture, but we have no right to push anybody, beat them over the head, or tell them what to do, unless, unless they ask, if not, we should not...

Now you can kind of "bait" a person, or gently lead them into asking you the question you want them to ask you, then, tell them in a spirit of meekness, mildness, gentleness and self-control (that is in scripture by the way, that last part)...

And the answer to their question can sometimes be in the question that you lead them into asking (skilled professional counselors know this well)...

God Bless!

We do have a right to correct people by God's Word in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Please read the passage.
We obviously try to correct our fellow brethren in love. But we know that the New Testament Scriptures teach that there is a righteous anger even amongst God's people. We are told not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we are to rather reprove them (Ephesians 5:11).


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

If one is not under a law of righteousness of some kind, then one is lawless or they are under a law of unrighteousness. When Paul talked about the Law he was referring to the Old Testament Law (Specifically the ceremonial and judicial laws). For Paul condemned things like circumcision (that was a part of the Old Law) (See Romans 3:1, and Galatians 5:2).

Moral law still applies. See Ephesians 5:5.



...

And Jason accuses others of distortion or failing to accept scripture.
When Paul stated the believer dies to the law in rom ch7, he gave as the example of why he had to die to the law: Thou shalt not covet. Part of the moral law Jason claims Paul is not referring to when he states the Christian is not under law.
To say: if one is not under a law of righteousness of some kind, they are lawless
Simply shows a failure to understand the message the Apostle paul preached.

 

[stuart lawrence]

We do have a right to correct people by God's Word in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Please read the passage.
We obviously try to correct our fellow brethren in love. But we know that the New Testament Scriptures teach that there is a righteous anger even amongst God's people. We are told not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we are to rather reprove them (Ephesians 5:11).


...

As you don't understand the message, you have no true right to correct anyone

 

[stuart lawrence]

If one is not under a law of righteousness of some kind, then one is lawless or they are under a law of righteousness



...

Do we then nullify the law by this faith( a righteousness of faith in Christ not observing the law) not at all! Rather we uphold the law
Rom3:31

Paul disagrees with you Jason.
In the above verse, Paul cannot possibly be referring to law apart from the moral law can he. For he says we will uphold the law. No one is asked to uphold old law as you put it that is not applicable NC law

 

[Romansthruphilemon]

But that is what 1 John 3:15 is teaching whether you accept what it says or not.

It says,

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

So a person who hates his brother is like a murderer and then it says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

So a person who hates his brother = no eternal life abiding in them.

This is not complicated in what this verse says.
It is very plain and simple.
It is also a verse that takes place after Christ's death (i.e. the New Testament), so you cannot claim that this is a different Covenant.

So yes, works do a play a part in our salvation. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
In other words, you cannot live out your faith and have no works and no holiness and say that you are still saved. James says faith without works is dead.

In short, one is not trusting in God if they are sinning or breaking God's laws.


...

This does take place after Christ's death but pay attention to Galations 2:7-9 to see that Peter, John, and James are preaching to the circumcision, and Paul is preaching to us.

Paul is speaking:
Gal 2:7-9 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Things didn't change overnight. The new doctrine that was kept secret since the world began, and only revealed to the Apostle Paul was preached by Paul to the Gentiles. James, Peter, and John were still preaching the doctrine that they learned in Jesus' earthly ministry, but they were preaching to the circumcision (Jews), not to us. To confirm this is true look at what Peter said in Acts 10:35 and notice the works required for salvation. Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness is accepted with him.

Compare Acts 10:35 with what Paul said to us in Romans 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believe that on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Acts 10:35 works required to be accepted
Romans 4:5 works not required to be accepted, faith only

The doctrine in Acts 10:35 is opposite to Romans 4:5. There is no way that you can claim both of those verses. You are claiming the wrong one as your doctrine and ignoring the one that is written to you.

 

[1stcenturylady]

1stcenturylady, the Lord called Abel righteous. In the story of Cain and Abel, what did he do that made him righteous?

In Christ
Daniel

We do not see "sacrifice" shown to be taught to Adam and Eve, and yet by what their son's, Cain and Able did, we induce that they had been by God, Himself. Cain did not recognize the significance behind the blood, therefore failing to distinguish the payment for sin. Able did, and obeyed God. It is our obedience to God, like with Abraham, where it is imputed to us as righteousness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This does take place after Christ's death but pay attention to Galations 2:7-9 to see that Peter, John, and James are preaching to the circumcision, and Paul is preaching to us.

Paul is speaking:
Gal 2:7-9 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Things didn't change overnight. The new doctrine that was kept secret since the world began, and only revealed to the Apostle Paul was preached by Paul to the Gentiles. James, Peter, and John were still preaching the doctrine that they learned in Jesus' earthly ministry, but they were preaching to the circumcision (Jews), not to us. To confirm this is true look at what Peter said in Acts 10:35 and notice the works required for salvation. Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness is accepted with him.

Compare Acts 10:35 with what Paul said to us in Romans 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believe that on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Acts 10:35 works required to be accepted
Romans 4:5 works not required to be accepted, faith only

The doctrine in Acts 10:35 is opposite to Romans 4:5. There is no way that you can claim both of those verses. You are claiming the wrong one as your doctrine and ignoring the one that is written to you.

No. Even Paul said to Timothy,

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Teaching that one can sin and still be saved on any level is contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness.

James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).
So just having pride is enough to not have grace. But you think God has changed, when this is not true. God's goodness or morality does not change.

...

 

[1stcenturylady]

@Jason0047, @SkyWriting,

This is what I believe.

Let’s talk about the laws on your heart. Who put them there? The Spirit. Those are the laws of the Spirit of life in Christ, to love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. They are NOT the Old Covenant laws of sin and death.

But why do they seem the same? Thou shalt not kill? Love prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not steal? Self-control prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not commit adultery? Faithfulness prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not covet? Peace and contentment prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not lie? Kindness prevents that in your new nature. Honor your parents? Longsuffering and gentleness takes care of them for as long as they live. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ? Joy unspeakable!

Whatever you wouldn't want done to yourself, you do to others.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Those who have to STRIVE to be all the above, don't have the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, they are still trying to keep the law of sin and death in THEIR OWN strength. Their carnal nature makes it hard.