Dealing with Objectors to the Ten Commandments of God

[woobadooba]

Just because someone emphasizes the importance of keeping the Ten Commandments of God, it doesn't mean he or she is in bondage to a salvation by works theology.

The nonsense of accusing people of being legalistic for being in favor of keeping God's Ten Commandments, needs to stop.

Instead of jumping to conclusions about that person's relationship with God, ask questions for clarification.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works (Eph. 2:8-9); but let's not forget that we were created for good works (v. 10).

When I look at God's Ten Commandments I see something good, not evil.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Just because someone emphasizes the importance of keeping the Ten Commandments of God, it doesn't mean he or she is in bondage to a salvation by works theology.

The nonsense of accusing people of being legalistic for being in favor of keeping God's Ten Commandments, needs to stop.

Instead of jumping to conclusions about that person's relationship with God, ask questions for clarification.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works (Eph. 2:8-9); but let's not forget that we were created for good works (v. 10).

When I look at God's Ten Commandments I see something good, not evil.

I wonder though why people call those the Ten Commandments when it's another set of commands that are called the Ten Commandments.

 

[pescador]

Just because someone emphasizes the importance of keeping the Ten Commandments of God, it doesn't mean he or she is in bondage to a salvation by works theology.

The nonsense of accusing people of being legalistic for being in favor of keeping God's Ten Commandments, needs to stop.

Instead of jumping to conclusions about that person's relationship with God, ask questions for clarification.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works (Eph. 2:8-9); but let's not forget that we were created for good works (v. 10).

When I look at God's Ten Commandments I see something good, not evil.

The Ten Commandments are meant for people living under the Old Covenant. They have no bearing on the lives of those living under the New Covenant. We are not under law but under grace.

 

[woobadooba]

The Ten Commandments are meant for people living under the Old Covenant. They have no bearing on the lives of those living under the New Covenant. We are not under law but under grace.

Are you saying being under grace means I am free to break the Ten Commandments of God? Can I now be lawless and do as I please with impunity because Jesus died for my sins?

 

[woobadooba]

I wonder though why people call those the Ten Commandments when it's another set of commands that are called the Ten Commandments.

Not sure what you mean. Can you explain, please?

 

[pescador]

Are you saying being under grace means I am free to break the Ten Commandments of God? Can I now be lawless and do as I please with impunity because Jesus died for my sins?

Technically, yes, that is the case. However, if you are saved and have received the Holy Spirit you will not do those things because you are no longer controlled by sin.

If you were told that you would not be punished for committing murder, would you then go out and kill somebody? The law is meant for those who have not been saved and received the Holy Spirit. They need external rules to control their behavior. Christians' behavior is controlled by the Spirit of Christ.

When Paul wrote to the church in Galatia, he said, "Now I mean that the heir, as long as he is a minor, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything. But he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. So also we, when we were minors, were enslaved under the basic forces of the world. But when the appropriate time had come, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we may be adopted as sons with full rights. And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, who calls “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave but a son, and if you are a son, then you are also an heir through God."

No Christian would even think of doing what you suggest in your post.

 

[woobadooba]

Technically, yes, that is the case. However, if you are saved and have received the Holy Spirit you will not do those things because you are no longer controlled by sin.

If you were told that you would not be punished for committing murder, would you then go out and kill somebody? The law is meant for those who have not been saved and received the Holy Spirit. They need external rules to control their behavior. Christians' behavior is controlled by the Spirit of Christ.

When Paul wrote to the church in Galatia, he said, "Now I mean that the heir, as long as he is a minor, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything. But he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. So also we, when we were minors, were enslaved under the basic forces of the world. But when the appropriate time had come, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we may be adopted as sons with full rights. And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, who calls “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave but a son, and if you are a son, then you are also an heir through God."

No Christian would even think of doing what you suggest in your post.

Show me from the Bible where it is written that we no longer have to keep God's Ten Commandments. A teaching such as yours should be clearly spelled out in the Scriptures, since God's commandments have always been an important topic to Bible writers.

Quoting verses out of context to the discussion is not helpful. Paul's point to the Galatians was that keeping the law doesn't save anyone. I am not saying we are saved by keeping the law. I agree that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus (Eph. 2:8-9).

Paul was not arguing that we are now free to break God's Ten Commandments with impunity, nor did he ever say the Ten Commandments have been abolished. People who don't read Paul right say these things.

 

[pescador]

Romans 6 and 7 say everything that needs to be said on the subject. In it Paul clearly says that we are not under law, but under grace. That includes the Ten Commandments. That is "reading Paul right".

Here is some of chapter 7: "Or do you not know, brothers and sisters (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law is lord over a person as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of the marriage. So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she is joined to another man, she is not an adulteress. So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

And here is how chapter 8 begins...

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

That's as clear as it can possibly be. The law, including the Ten Commandments, does not apply to Christians.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Romans 6:1-14

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 

[Dkh587]

Funny how people will use Paul to teach against obedience to God's law(which includes the 10 commandments), yet Paul taught from the 10 commandments & the law(Torah)

Ephesians 6:2-3
Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Exodus 20:12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which יהוה your God giveth thee.

 

[pescador]

Romans 6:1-14

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

You underlined the wrong verse. Verse 14 is the one you should have underlined. "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

 

[pescador]

Funny how people will use Paul to teach against obedience to God's law(which includes the 10 commandments), yet Paul taught from the 10 commandments & the law(Torah)

Ephesians 6:2-3
Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Exodus 20:12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which יהוה your God giveth thee.

Oh, now I see. A couple of verses out of Paul's letter to the church in Ephesus proves -- nothing.

Paul clearly and repeatedly stressed that we are not under law (meaning the Old Testament law) but under grace. If you don't understand that you need to read the New Testament carefully and completely.

What is the purpose of salvation? To put us under the law again, disregarding what Christ has done for us?

You want a single verse? Try this one, "For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[pescador]

Galatians 2:21, "I do not set aside God’s grace, because if righteousness could come through the law, then Christ died for nothing!"

 

[CrystalDragon]

Not sure what you mean. Can you explain, please?

I mean Exodus 34. It gives a different set of commandments and then verse 28 specifically calls those the Ten Commandments.

 

[woobadooba]

I mean Exodus 34. It gives a different set of commandments and then verse 28 specifically calls those the Ten Commandments.

I see what you mean. Yes, other commandments were given, but what you see in verse 28 is a brief account of what happened when Moses was with the LORD on Mount Sinai.

 

[pescador]

If you believe that you must obey the ten commandments, even as a Christian, then you must obey the entire Old Testament law. There is no provision that you can obey only part of it. I suggest that you read through Leviticus for a starter and try to keep every single law that you find there.

Here is something to get you going...

Then the Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the Meeting Tent: “Speak to the Israelites and tell them, ‘When someone among you presents an offering to the Lord, you must present your offering from the domesticated animals, either from the herd or from the flock. If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd he must present it as a flawless male; he must present it at the entrance of the Meeting Tent for its acceptance before the Lord." ...

Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[woobadooba]

If you believe that you must obey the ten commandments, even as a Christian, then you must obey the entire Old Testament law.

In your mind you think this is the only logical conclusion, but there are other ways of looking at it. But based on what I have read from you thus far, I don't think you are willing to listen.

 

[pescador]

In your mind you think this is the only logical conclusion, but there are other ways of looking at it. But based on what I have read from you thus far, I don't think you are willing to listen.

What do you have to say? What are the other biblical ways of looking at it? I'm willing to "listen" to reason and truth. Saying that Christians must obey the ten commandments is neither.

 

[Dkh587]

Oh, now I see. A couple of verses out of Paul's letter to the church in Ephesus proves -- nothing.

Paul clearly and repeatedly stressed that we are not under law (meaning the Old Testament law) but under grace. If you don't understand that you need to read the New Testament carefully and completely.

What is the purpose of salvation? To put us under the law again, disregarding what Christ has done for us?

You want a single verse? Try this one, "For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes.

It proves that Paul taught the believers of the Messiah to obey the 10 commandments.

If you say that we're not supposed to obey them, yet Paul does, I'm going with Paul, not you.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Speaks of these being nothing here

1 Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And Gal 5:6 begins similar to how 1 Cr 7:19 starts out

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

But the same here as the other two verses, emphasizing a new creature

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Both are mentioned together in one verse here

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.