The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Neogaia777]

I do not struggle with serious sin 24/7.
How about you?
In my experience, I have talked with Eternal Security proponents who admitted that they felt enslaved by their sin. But they were not worried about it because they had their belief on Jesus.


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Your supposed to feel bad about your sin

I do not struggle with "serious" sin, (what is serious sin anyway, is not all equal to God, in that we all fall short) I do not struggle with it nearly as much as I used to, that's for sure... As to why that is, I do not know, but, I'm glad for it and grateful...

But I would never Judge another sinner telling them they have to keep some kind of complictaed detailed set of rules and laws and if they do not, they are going to hell, kind of thing either...

We all have a past, and how could I judge another, as to where they are at, or should be with themselves, not only my own past, but each one has a completely different and unique set(s) of variables to consider in order for ones judgment to be correct, that it takes a God, The God, to do so...

God Bless!

 

[corinth77777]

My understanding is that once one is saved, they're saved, no matter what. It's very difficult to factor one's behavior into it without it becoming a slippery slope into a works-based salvation.

Salvation brings about the good works, but good works don't bring about (or maintain) the salvation. That's how I've always understood it, anyway.

Salvation is secured for us by the faithfulness of Jesus.[my humble opinion]
Meaning It is He alone[ with out us] who died and arose for our sin, in order that we live unto Him.
Making Him the source of salvation or the author of salvation. Since He is the author and finisher of our faith. Then we need to be in the one that is the beginning and the end. As the symbol of the Ark. The ark is the source of salvation. And if you get in the ARK it will deliver you through the wrath.

Was there work in getting in the ARK? Yes [faith]
They believed it would save them and they got in.
Is there effort to get into what would eventually deliver them from the flood a work of righteousnes that was written in scripture? No

Works of righteousness is speaking to our effort to keep ourselves. Which was proven through the law that none could do.
Works of righteousness also can refer to our direct effort to keep the law without God.
That may be why it states: not by any works of righteousness we have done but by His Mercy...
Why? "For who has given to God that He shall repay Him?
Only person I know is His Son who offered Himself up.
If one needs to be paid that means they "earned" it. But no one earned anything They all depended upon priestly sacrifices and offerings under the law that Jesus ended up fullfilling.

So what do Works of righteousness do? If you say you earned something...it brings an attitude of boasting...There is no "love in boasting" This is why the faithfulness of Jesus "His obedience unto the father even unto death" Is the gift. He alone[apart from us-anything we do to earn salvation ]is salvation[as the Ark was the means to deliverance.
Faith itself is a command it is what we must do. And there are many expressions of faith that are considered good works....But If eyes are open now you see that these works of faith are not the works of righteousness mentioned in the passage: "it's not by any works of righteousness we have done"

This is a faith because you believe in salvation [Jesus Christ] the Risen.

And surely this faith has works. And first Its getting in the ARK.[Jesus Christ] by believing Who He is. What do people do when they truly believe? They act. How did the 7 get into the Ark They believed God would save them if they got in the ark. So they heeded to the message of Noah.

This is why the quote Faith alone saves but the faith that saves is never alone.

The Ark by itself with no one in it is the answer for clear conscience from the flood for everyone that believes.

As Jesus Christ the Risen Lord is the answer to all to deliver [save] us.

What is He delivering us from? Our treaspasses and sin Why? So we can live "soberly and righteous in this present generation." And if we remain in Him...the Life given in Him will carry over.
The issue that I see is salvation is what happens with God. And people believe it's only Jesus....But we can see that salvation is a noun at times in the form of what Jesus did. Without Him you can do nothing. So we must do it with Him......Once this is understood...people may change their views...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you many times stated the Christian is under a law of righteousness concerning 1050 NT commands?

So God just puts useless filler information in the Bible?
When was the last time you ever had a desire to do a study on such a thing?



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[stuart lawrence]

See Post #868 for my answer.


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You did NOT state in that response how many commands the Christian is under concerning a law of righteousness.
Please tell us how many commands this law of righteousness concerns, and where these commands are specifically to be found

 

[stuart lawrence]

So God just puts useless filler information in the Bible?
When was the last time you ever had a desire to do a study on such a thing?



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Have you stated on numerous occasions the Christian is under a law of righteousness of observing 1050 NT commands?

 

[Neogaia777]

When Paul said he was a wretched man, he was saying this from his experience in being a pharisee who used to struggle with keeping the Law alone as a means of salvation. Nowhere do we see Paul say that he struggleed with sin while he had Jesus, too. Paul recounted his old life of sin in trying to keep the law and then he said he is thankful that he now has Jesus Christ. We are told in Romans 13:14 to put on the Lord Jesus Christ so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh.


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Maybe not committing sin, but still temptation, I disagree, He (Paul) was not as bothered by his past, as he was about his present and future, and that subject troubled him more, he knew his past was forgiven, but did not want to and struggled with going back to those kinds of sins in the here and now, and into the future... That's why Jesus said Paul would have to suffer for his sake, to keep that out of or from coming back into him...


But, even with your point of view, so, your saying Paul felt guilty a lot correct...?

Do you about anything Jason...?

A sin of the flesh can be pride, setting yourself above others, judging to condemn and not out of love and for loves sake, not practicing or living up to what you preach, also, thinking you are or can, if it is the Law, the ultimate sin, to be like God, the Devil's vanity... Need I go on...?

God Bless!

 

[stuart lawrence]

It must be plain to everyone Jason runs away from answering the two very simple questions. He appears reluctant to confirm what he has previously many times stated.
Only deflection left as a viable option

 

[stuart lawrence]

So God just puts useless filler information in the Bible?
When was the last time you ever had a desire to do a study on such a thing?



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You see Jason, if you are afraid to confirm your much stated belief, it shows you have no sincere heartfelt conviction of belief doesn't it

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your supposed to feel bad about your sin

Judas felt bad about his sin but he did not deal with it in the right way. He had a worldly sorrow and not a Godly sorrow because he committed suicide instead of repenting of his sin.

I do not struggle with it nearly as much as I used to, that's for sure... As to why that is, I do not know, but, I'm glad for it and grateful...

You said on another thread, I quote:

"I think God knows my struggle with sin, and that I do not give up, but sometimes I stumble and fall, when I stumble or fall, and I commit a sin, Afterward, I immediately begin asking for forgiveness and acknowledging God's greatness, and my weakness. Now, I do not give up on not sinning, I try to moderate my habits (which takes some small measure of self control) Anyways, I moderate my habits if I don't feel strong enough to do away with them completely

I have had some success in what I'd call behavioral or charachter flaws, sins that can hurt other people, but I am having difficulty with the sins that I feel like I'm only affecting myself, sins like smoking and masturbating and looking at inappropriate content." ~ Quote by: Neogaia.​

Source:
I feel closer to God in my sins...

(what is serious sin anyway, is not all equal to God, in that we all fall short)

Serious sins is any sin that leads to spiritual death or the Lake of Fire. 1 John 5:16-17 talks about sins that lead to death and sins that do not lead to death. Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11). Jesus said the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like justice, love, faith, and mercy (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). There is also the unforgiveable sin, as well (Matthew 12:31-32). So no. Not all sin is the same.

But I would never Judge another sinner telling them they have to keep some kind of complictaed detailed set of rules and laws and if they do not, they are going to hell, kind of thing either...

It's not complicated. Jesus, Paul, and others have clearly told us which sins lead to spiritual death.
Murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, unforgiveness, etc. (See Matthew 6:15, Matthew 5:28-30, 1 John 3:15, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8).

We all have a past, and how could I judge another, as to where they are at, or should be with themselves, not only my own past, but each one has a completely different and unique set(s) of variables to consider in order for ones judgment to be correct, that it takes a God, The God, to do so...

God Bless!

If a believer is seeking to overcome sin, then I will be glad to help them to do so. But if they are seeking to justify their sin, it is not wrong for me to tell them that they are wrong for wanting to remain in their sin or to think that they can sin and still be saved (Thereby turning God's grace into a license for immorality). Try re-reading Jude 1:4 sometime. Also, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says we can correct others by God's Word.


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[stuart lawrence]

Surely anyone wanting to be a minister of the word, must have the courage to plainly state what their belief is

 

[stuart lawrence]

Judas felt bad about his sin but he did not deal with it in the right way. He had a worldly sorrow and not a Godly sorrow because he committed suicide instead of repenting of his sin.



You said on another thread, I quote:

"I think God knows my struggle with sin, and that I do not give up, but sometimes I stumble and fall, when I stumble or fall, and I commit a sin, Afterward, I immediately begin asking for forgiveness and acknowledging God's greatness, and my weakness. Now, I do not give up on not sinning, I try to moderate my habits (which takes some small measure of self control) Anyways, I moderate my habits if I don't feel strong enough to do away with them completely

I have had some success in what I'd call behavioral or charachter flaws, sins that can hurt other people, but I am having difficulty with the sins that I feel like I'm only affecting myself, sins like smoking and masturbating and looking at inappropriate content." ~ Quote by: Neogaia.​

Source:
I feel closer to God in my sins...



Serious sins is any sin that leads to spiritual death or the Lake of Fire. 1 John 5:16-17 talks about sins that lead to death and sins that do not lead to death. Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11). Jesus said the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like justice, love, faith, and mercy (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). There is also the unforgiveable sin, as well (Matthew 12:31-32). So no. Not all sin is the same.



It's not complicated. Jesus, Paul, and others have clearly told us which sins lead to spiritual death.
Murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, unforgiveness, etc. (See Matthew 6:15, Matthew 5:28-30, 1 John 3:15, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8).



If a believer is seeking to overcome sin, then I will be glad to help them to do so. But if they are seeking to justify their sin, it is not wrong for me to tell them that they are wrong for wanting to remain in their sin or to think that they can sin and still be saved (Thereby turning God's grace into a license for immorality). Try re-reading Jude 1:4 sometime. Also, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says we can correct others by God's Word.


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Have you on numerous occasions stated the Christian is under a righteousness of observing 1050 NT commands?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It must be plain to everyone Jason runs away from answering the two very simple questions. He appears reluctant to confirm what he has previously many times stated.
Only deflection left as a viable option

I explained what the law of righteousness is. You just ignored it.
I asked you about Ephesians 5:5 in relation to Romans 7. You just ignored it.


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[stuart lawrence]

I explained what the law of righteousness is. You just ignored it.
I asked you about Ephesians 5:5 in relation to Romans 7. You just ignored it.


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Have you on numerous occasions stated the Christian is under a righteousness of observing 1050 NT commands?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Surely anyone wanting to be a minister of the word, must have the courage to plainly state what their belief is

In my profile page, you can find a link to my full statement of faith.

Jason0047

And here is the direct link to my statement of faith (if you do not want to see my profile page):
What is your Statement of Faith?


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[stuart lawrence]

In my profile page, you can find a link to my full statement of faith.

Jason0047

Here is the direct link to my statement of faith:
What is your Statement of Faith?


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Have you on numerous occasions stated the Christian is under a righteousness of observing 1050 NT commands?

Why are you so afraid to confirm or deny what you have previously stated?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you on numerous occasions stated the Christian is under a righteousness of observing 1050 NT commands?

I told you before in another post what the righteousness of the Law is. Please read Romans 8:4, and then compare with Romans 13:8-10.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I did not state before that we have to keep all 1,050 + commands in order to be saved or that all these commands are dealing with our salvation if we do not keep all of them. But there are commands within this list that do relate to our salvation, though. For example: A Christian cannot murder and still be saved. They would have to repent of such a sin, if they were to do so.


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[stuart lawrence]

I told you before in another post what the righteousness of the Law is. Please read Romans 8:4, and then compare with Romans 13:8-10.


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Have you on numerous occasions stated the Christian is under a righteousness of observing 1050 NT commands?

Are you embarrassed by your beliefs?
Is that why you refuse to answer?

 

[stuart lawrence]

I did not state before that we have to keep all 1,050 + commands in order to be saved or that all these commands are dealing with our salvation if we do not keep all of them.


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Did you on numerous occasions state the Christian is under a law of righteousness concerning 1050 NT commands.

Yes or no

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you on numerous occasions stated the Christian is under a righteousness of observing 1050 NT commands?

Are you embarrassed by your beliefs?
Is that why you refuse to answer?

See Post #897.


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