The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Dan61861]

Yes, God's laws are in my heart. David said he hid God's Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord (Psalms 119:11).


...

Yet David committed adultery and murdered a man. The Word David is keeping in his heart is Christ. For David again said, The Lord said unto my Lord. David calls Christ his Lord. David looked forward to his redeemer.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

But you are only teaching the milk of the Word (Which is a message that the Corinthian church could only accept) and you are not teaching the meat of the Word. You are not teaching a full and complete gospel message. You are only preaching half of it.

I mean, stop and think for a moment.

For what purpose did Jesus gave Himself for?

Try reading Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 for the answer.

For Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him (Hebrews 5:9).


...

Jason

Christ and Him crucified is the Gospel.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[1stcenturylady]

Those who don't repent cannot have the law in their hearts, and only these people have a saviour from their sin.

So far I agree, but I don't understand this paragraph. What are you saying here

 

[stuart lawrence]

So far I agree, but I don't understand this paragraph. What are you saying here

.

 

[stuart lawrence]

So far I agree, but I don't understand this paragraph. What are you saying here

Ah, I see my wrong wording. I meant, you can only be saved if the law is in your heart, for that is one of the two main clauses on which the NC stands. So only if the law is in your heart can you have a saviour from your sin.
My apologies

 

[1stcenturylady]

Ah, I see my wrong wording. I meant, you can only be saved if the law is in your heart, for that is one of the two main clauses on which the NC stands. So only if the law is in your heart can you have a saviour from your sin.
My apologies

Okay, then I agree. But so does Jason, and yet you two fight like cats and dogs. Why?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Okay, then I agree. But so does Jason, and yet you two fight like cats and dogs. Why?

Jason believes a law of righteousness exists for the Christian

 

[1stcenturylady]

Jason believes a law of righteousness exists for the Christian

I believe you two mean the same thing, only word it differently. Neither one of you say what you do have, i.e., law of the Spirit of life in Christ. That's why I try to ALWAYS, without fail, credit the Holy Spirit. We can do nothing good of ourselves.

As you know I always took you at your word, that we are not under the law of righteousness. That isn't complete without what you believe you ARE under. Frankly, I always thought you meant we have no law at all if we believe in Christ. Now I know that's not what you meant at all. But both Jason and I believed that. So maybe now you two can converse politely.

Personally, I'm not sure "law of righteousness" is the right term. I would call it the law of sin and death. That's what Romans 7 and 8 call it. In what context did you come up with law of righteousness? That sounds more positive than negative, like the law of the Spirit. Unless you are talking self-righteous.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I believe you two mean the same thing, only word it differently. Neither one of you say what you do have, i.e., law of the Spirit of life in Christ. That's why I try to ALWAYS, without fail, credit the Holy Spirit. We can do nothing good of ourselves.

As you know I always took you at your word, that we are not under the law of righteousness. That isn't complete without what you believe you ARE under. Frankly, I always thought you meant we have no law at all if we believe in Christ. Now I know that's not what you meant at all. But both Jason and I believed that. So maybe now you two can converse politely.

Personally, I'm not sure "law of righteousness" is the right term. I would call it the law of sin and death. That's what Romans 7 and 8 call it. In what context did you come up with law of righteousness? That sounds more positive than negative, like the law of the Spirit. Unless you are talking self-righteous.

If you are righteous by observing the law you are under a law of righteousness. NIV uses the term: law of righteousness. And Paul says:
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness rom10:4

The law of the Spirit of life is the fruits of the Spirit. Against that fruit there is no law( gal5:22&23)

I'm afraid I have little affinity with people who reel off the letter, demanding of others what they do not demand of themselves. I know the damage it can do to the humble and sincere.
I'm NOT referring to you lol

 

[stuart lawrence]

If law didn't exist you could not be conscious of sin

Through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

 

[1stcenturylady]

If you are righteous by observing the law you are under a law of righteousness. NIV uses the term: law of righteousness. And Paul says:
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness rom10:4

The law of the Spirit of life is the fruits of the Spirit. Against that fruit there is no law( gal5:22&23)

I'm afraid I have little affinity with people who reel off the letter, demanding of others what they do not demand of themselves. I know the damage it can do to the humble and sincere.
I'm NOT referring to you lol

It's actually more than the "law of the Spirit is the fruits of the Spirit," it is walking in the Spirit also, and not in the flesh.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

So it is both.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[stuart lawrence]

It's actually more than the "law of the Spirit is the fruits of the Spirit," it is walking in the Spirit also, and not in the flesh.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

So it is both.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Do you interpret gal5:18 as saying:
As soon as you commit any sin you have failed to follow after the holy spirit therefore you are back under the law?

That is the same as saying: perfectly observe the law or you are back under a righteousness of observing the law.
That doesn't make sense does it

 

[1stcenturylady]

Do you interpret gal5:18 as saying:
As soon as you commit any sin you have failed to follow after the holy spirit therefore you are back under the law?

That is the same as saying: perfectly observe the law or you are back under a righteousness of observing the law.
That doesn't make sense does it

19 and 20 shows what he means by the flesh. If you walk in the Spirit you won't be in the flesh. And the more you practice walking in the Spirit, the less you think about those things in the flesh.

Remember, it is not US keeping the law, but the Spirit who changes our desires to sin to producing fruit.

 

[stuart lawrence]

19 and 20 shows what he means by the flesh. If you walk in the Spirit you won't be in the flesh. And the more you practice walking in the Spirit, the less you think about those things in the flesh.

Remember, it is not US keeping the law, but the Spirit who changes our desires to sin to producing fruit.

But if a person believed, if they committed any sin they would be placed back under the law, for they have them failed to follow after the holy spirit. In the real world, in real life, they would then, in effect live under a righteousness of observing the law faultlessly

 

[1stcenturylady]

But if a person believed, if they committed any sin they would be placed back under the law, for they have them failed to follow after the holy spirit. In the real world, in real life, they would then, in effect live under a righteousness of observing the law faultlessly

As we discussed earlier, the Holy Spirit would be convicting like crazy. Right? So if they repent, and turn back to God He forgives. If they don't repent, sooner or later (and I don't really know how long) the Holy Spirit after being quenched time and again will leave that person back to perdition.

Do you agree?

 

[stuart lawrence]

As we discussed earlier, the Holy Spirit would be convicting like crazy. Right? So if they repent, and turn back to God He forgives. If they don't repent, sooner or later (and I don't really know how long) the Holy Spirit after being quenched time and again will leave that person back to perdition.

Do you agree?

Firstly. I'm glad you quoted gal5:18. A great verse to quote. You could probably start a thread on that verse alone.
In my view, we need to ask ourselves a question.
Can you follow after the Holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message whilst you yourself are imperfect/ not sinless?
I would have to say yes. I can give scripture to support that. Much scripture in fact.
It cannot work to say you are only free from being under the law if you perfectly observe the law.
As to your last point. Again. You could start a debate on it lol! It refers to OSAS in a way, and I never discuss that subject on the internet.
A person is not under a righteousness of observing the law. If they committed one sin for example, are they straight back under the law. I say no. But, once you start following after the flesh, it can become a habit. Eventually, would you be so hardened by sin you turned away/ didn't repent
As I said. I don't discuss OSAS on the internet, sorry

 

[1stcenturylady]

Firstly. I'm glad you quoted gal5:18. A great verse to quote. You could probably start a thread on that verse alone.
In my view, we need to ask ourselves a question.
Can you follow after the Holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message whilst you yourself are imperfect/ not sinless?
I would have to say yes. I can give scripture to support that. Much scripture in fact.
It cannot work to say you are only free from being under the law if you perfectly observe the law.
As to your last point. Again. You could start a debate on it lol! It refers to OSAS in a way, and I never discuss that subject on the internet.
A person is not under a righteousness of observing the law. If they committed one sin for example, are they straight back under the law. I say no. But, once you start following after the flesh, it can become a habit. Eventually, would you be so hardened by sin you turned away/ didn't repent
As I said. I don't discuss OSAS on the internet, sorry

Okay, here we go again, I think I misread you. I thought you already acknowledged that you could become unsaved when you said,:

Let's look at the point you raised. If we don't repent when we commit what we term willful sin we are doomed.
Absolutely. I agree with you 100 percent.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Okay, here we go again, I think I misread you. I thought you already acknowledged that you could become unsaved when you said,:

Let's look at the point you raised. If we don't repent when we commit what we term willful sin we are doomed.
Absolutely. I agree with you 100 percent.

I did qualify that by saying someone with the law in their heart would repent, for they would have no rest, or peace until they did so.
Are we discussing gal5:18, or, whether a born again Christian could become so hardened by continually giving into the flesh they stopped repenting?
I'd prefer the former, unless you believe they arelinked

 

[1stcenturylady]

I did qualify that by saying someone with the law in their heart would repent, for they would have no rest, or peace until they did so.
Are we discussing gal5:18, or, whether a born again Christian could become so hardened by continually giving into the flesh they stopped repenting?
I'd prefer the former, unless you believe they arelinked

No we don't have to discuss OSAS. Personally, I don't know anyone, well maybe one, who hasn't continued in the faith. The Holy Spirit can be pretty convincing in His convicting.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I did qualify that by saying someone with the law in their heart would repent, for they would have no rest, or peace until they did so.
Are we discussing gal5:18, or, whether a born again Christian could become so hardened by continually giving into the flesh they stopped repenting?
I'd prefer the former, unless you believe they arelinked

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