Universalism...why not?

[friend of]

then God can choose to continue to work on that broken soul after death

So like... purgatory?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

If my child became a wayward soul, as any loving parent I would do everything I could to woo him back to a healthy and restorative place. I would never give up on him. I would put no time limits on my love and patience towards him.

If our Father desires all men to be saved, why can't he continue to work on their souls postmortem? If he wanted to, couldn't he do it? Can't God do what he wants to do? I think he can do what he wants to do.

So, if God desires all men to be saved and if God can do what he wants to do, he wouldn't put a time limit (i.e. upon death) on his love and patience towards us.

So, if God's love and patience run out on a soul upon death, either God doesn't want all men to be saved or God can't do what he wants to do. Which is it?

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[GillDouglas]

I guess I'm odd...I care about all people, even the ones who die broken and/or unrepentant.

You care for no one. If you did, you would be teaching the definite atoning work of Christ in which His people are reconciled to God by faith through grace. You are putting your trust and faith in time, and if you (and others who think like you) do not put your trust in Christ, at your death you will perish eternally.

 

[surrender1]

So like... purgatory?

I don't know much about that doctrine, but maybe...

 

[surrender1]

You care for no one.

LOL! You people who act like you know someone on these message boards crack me up! Dude, YOU ARE A COMPLETE STRANGER! You know nothing about me.

If you did, you would be teaching the definite atoning work of Christ in which His people are reconciled to God by faith through grace.

Your arrogance is stunning. I do teach that and have for many years.

You are putting your trust and faith in time,

No, I'm not. But you go ahead and keep saying a bunch of "you this" and "you that" so there's no reason to look in the mirror.

and if you (and others who think like you) do not put your trust in Christ, at your death you will perish eternally.

Sorry to disappoint your desire to see God's image bearers roast, but there is no eternal hell fire.

 

[The Times]

Is someone on here a full preterist? If so, I never met him/her yet.

Jesus is the one who said it's finished. ;-)

So did Saint Stephan, so did the many saints who have given their lives to Jesus and kept the faith even onto death. It is finished for them as far as their works of faith are concerned, meaning there is no more working as far as their salvation is concerned.

Full Preterists define the end of the world and the end of the great harvest of God happening in 70AD and so everything that Jesus said according to Full Preterists, was either to the Jews or to that end of age generations, hence they even dismiss these words of Jesus as not being applied to all eternity.....

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

We know that Full Preterism cloaks itself with other movements like Universalism and this undermines the blood covenant of Jesus Christ.

If I asked you, does the blood covenant of Jesus Christ exist today?

If you advocate for the Full Preterist theology, then you will avoid answering this question, by saying I don't know what you mean, or I don't understand.

When you avoid and deflect from answering this question, we can see that you are advocating full Preterism under the cloak ot Universalism. This hasn't been made known by man, it is God who reveals things and brings them into light of our understanding.

I believe that you are a Full Preterist. Whether you agree or disagree with me, I don't really care.

 

[surrender1]

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

This parable was about the consequences of not heeding the signs of the times, which was the time of God's messenger warning the nation of Israel to repent for the kingdom was at hand and if they continued to harden their hearts, coming national judgment was on the way.

 

[GillDouglas]

LOL! You people who act like you know someone on these message boards crack me up! Dude, YOU ARE A COMPLETE STRANGER! You know nothing about me.

I know enough about what you're preaching in this thread that you do not care about the condition of the unbeliever when they die. You're hopeful that God will clear up any lose threads some point in the future.

Your arrogance is stunning. I do teach that and have for many years.

I do not get the impression that you do teach this. How does an individual who is physically dead come to know Christ?

No, I'm not. But you go ahead and keep saying a bunch of "you this" and "you that" so there's no reason to look in the mirror.

You believe that regardless of the condition in which a person dies, (having not repent of any sins, confessed no faith in Christ, no evidence of being born of the spirit) that God will eventually reconcile them on the basis of a misguided understanding of the character of God.

Sorry to disappoint your desire to see God's image bearers roast, but there is not eternal hell fire.

I do not wish that anyone would spend eternity in Hell, but that is exactly where all unbelievers go upon death.

 

[The Times]

Where is the verse that says there is a contract called "the blood of Jesus Christ"?

That is the answer that I was expecting and I was right, in believing that you are a Full Preterist, that you also do not hold to the blood covenant of Jesus Christ and that you believe that you are in no way, shape or form obligated within a covenantial agreement with God and his Christ.

You can believe what you want to believe, I have no problem with that. The problem I have is, with the way you have used this thread under Controversial Christian Theology Forum to push a Full Preterist doctrine and to Advocate a Universalism, Anti-Christian and unGodly theology that undermines the blood covenant of Jesus Christ.

I take this quite seriously and I am confronting you on this issue alone, that you have over the last few posts indicated your intentions to confuse unsuspecting Christians and to provoke the learnered of the body of Christ to confront you in defence of Jesus Christ and his gospel, that is solely tied to the blood covenant.

I plead with you that you reframe from what you are doing and to respect the body of Christ who are bound by the blood covenant of Jesus Christ.

 

[GillDouglas]

Where is the verse that says there is a contract called "the blood of Jesus Christ"?

Mark 14:24, Matthew 26:28, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 13:20

 

[mkgal1]

Hell, No! ~ CD

Christian Universalism is Franciscan theology (but not ONLY Franciscan theology).....many people in all different denominations are Christian Universalists.

 

[Dartman]

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This is most specifically a warning to the nation of Israel to go the narrow way of peace (Jesus' way) rather than violence. Those who wanted to go the way of violence ended up in war and the Romans came in and like a flood swept away those who did not heed Jesus' words to flee when they were surrounded by armies.

The context of Matt 7 has NOTHING to do with Israel vrs Rome. The context is Jesus' teachings about salvation.
Matt 7:21-29 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Jesus makes it very clear, the foolish don't "build their house" (Faith and Works) on his commandments.
Even if they claim they have done "many wonderful works", they will be destroyed... they will fall.

 

[mkgal1]

This video may shock a lot of you---and most will probably believe this retired bishop is a heretic....but this doctrine is fully accepted (and believed) by a LOT of Christians:

 

[The Times]

This video may shock a lot of you---and most will probably believe this retired bishop is a heretic....but this doctrine is fully accepted (and believed) by a LOT of Christians:

Bishop Spong is an ultra Liberal theologian who promotes a faith that is outside of the authority of Jesus Christ. These are not my claims, but is an open confession by Bishop Spong in a debate with the late Dr Walter Martin, back in the late 80s.

Christianity is never founded upon liberal theology and the late Dr Walter Martin back in the 80s certainly exposed the cult of liberal theology in his book below....

http://www.eindtijdinbeeld.nl/EiB-Bibliotheek/Boeken/KingdomOfTheCultsWalterMartin.pdf

Bishop Spong has these statements of belief.....

No Theism
No Incarnation
No Creation or Fall
No Virgin Birth
No Miracles
No Substitutionary Atonement
No Resurrection
No Ascension
No Objective Moral Standards
No Effectual Prayer
No guilt
No Discrimination

Here is the link to an Examination of the Theology of Bishop John Shelby Spong ......

http://www.globaljournalct.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Stephanie-Monk-vol-9-no-1.pdf

All in all Bishop Spong in contrast to the faith and authority of Jesus Christ, when once asked by the late Dr Walter Martin, if Jesus said something, then will Bishop Spong accept Jesus as the final authority?

Bishop Spong answered with a flat out NO.

When people say that the doctrine of Liberal Theology is fully accepted (and believed) by a LOT of Christians: I may be inclined to believe this, which supports my concern and claim that the Great Falling away from the faith commenced back in the 80s and has now being firmly bedded in an apostate religious system of Universalism and Inclusivity, whilst denying every statement of belief that Orthodox Christainity historically speaking has held strong to.

We are living in the final hour, where the black dragon of aspostacy certainly has emerged to manifest his authority outside that of the authority of Jesus Christ, all the while denying .......

Theism
The Incarnation
The Creation or Fall
The Virgin Birth
Miracles
The Substitutionary Atonement
The Resurrection
The Ascension
The Objective Moral Standards
Effectual Prayer
Guilt
Discrimination

Are we here yet!

 

[com7fy8]

Also Universal Salvation does not need Jesus Christ on the Cross for salvation.

Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and in order to reconcile us to God. In order for us to not miss out on God, this would be enough of a reason, even if there were no judgment and hell. But because Jesus knows how hell is, He found it worthwhile to suffer that much so we don't go there.

(that's not genuine love....to limit freedom).

Only Jesus can make us truly free. Freedom of ego is not real freedom, and we can see how much people's freedom is doing for us.

But yes we need to love people by not forcing our way on others. And love does not use anyone.

Actually, God does not force people, but He transforms a person's nature from being selfish so the person can then wisely choose

is it a "limited time only" offer?

Satan is the one who is limited by time! And God has everything not limited by time, but He has His timing for His purpose > Romans 8:29.

However, what of those who die without ever hearing the gospel?

God has mercy on whom He has mercy, but also He knows the hearts of ones who have not heard about Jesus. In back jungle groups there can be a culture of serial murder-revenge, because in their nature they are not about forgiveness.

And, of course, there are so-called Christians who are not first about forgiveness.

 

[The Brown Brink]

With God, the possibilities have already been determined in eternity.

...and are...endless...

 

[Colter]

If my child became a wayward soul, as any loving parent I would do everything I could to woo him back to a healthy and restorative place. I would never give up on him. I would put no time limits on my love and patience towards him.

If our Father desires all men to be saved, why can't he continue to work on their souls postmortem? If he wanted to, couldn't he do it? Can't God do what he wants to do? I think he can do what he wants to do.

So, if God desires all men to be saved and if God can do what he wants to do, he wouldn't put a time limit (i.e. upon death) on his love and patience towards us.

So, if God's love and patience run out on a soul upon death, either God doesn't want all men to be saved or God can't do what he wants to do. Which is it?

Final rejection of God is the right of every child of God. The process of the eternal death judgment is so fair as to win even the approval of the condemned. It's our choice if we don't want to come home.

 

[buzuxi]

Most people are not cut out for heaven. It's just not their cup of tea.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

So God's prescriptive will and decretive will are at odds.

not at all,

God's decretive will deals with what he has done as far ordaining what will take place in time whereas His prescriptive will deals with the rules man is charged to follow.

God desiring all men to be saved is similar to a father desiring all his kids to clean their room. we can go against that desire to whatever consequences may come.

 

[The Scientist of the Eternal Pinecone]

I have a question about the story of the prodigal son. To whom is this story applying to if we take into account the verses about dogs returning to vomit and swines to the mire? The prodigal also went out to sin just as the dog or swine, but one could return to Father's home, but the other couldn't. At what point a believer becomes a 'son' so that even if He goes out to sin, can come back again? What seperates these two?