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Featured Universalism...why not?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by surrender1, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. God doesn't want all men to be saved.

    4 vote(s)
    8.2%
  2. God can't do what he wants to do.

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  3. Neither, God will continue to work on unrepentant souls because his love & patience are unending.

    40 vote(s)
    81.6%
  4. Don't know...never thought about this before.

    3 vote(s)
    6.1%
  1. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    "Evangelicals can go on a half an hour at how victorious God is and I never met a Christian denomination that has a less victorious God, because almost everybody loses, by their definition."

    Tribal thinking! Yes!

    "The present understanding of hell has much more to do with Dante’s Inferno than it does with anything biblical. If hell was so important, why would Paul not have talked about it once? If hell was so real, why would John not have mentioned the word once? If hell was the big agenda, the big plan, why wouldn’t it be somewhere in the book of Genesis? It’s not even hinted at. Cause it’s not a part of the original story line! It isn’t a reward/punishment system. It’s good news for all of creation."
     
  2. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    Love never gives up. God is love. Love never fails.
     
  3. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    A conscious decision to accept;
    NT:1209 dechomai (dekh'-om-ahee); middle voice of a primary verb; to receive (in various applications, literally or figuratively): KJV - accept, receive, take.

    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
     
  4. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    Under Universal Salvation God does not need Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sin to be forgiven and saved. All he need to do is just forgive the sins. That is what universal salvation means everyone is saved regardless of belief. If I'm a Hindu I'm saved do not need Christ under Universal Salvation.
     
  5. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    Nope. There are variations. All come to profess Christ, eventually.
     
  6. The Scientist of the Eternal Pinecone

    The Scientist of the Eternal Pinecone New Member

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    I mean I understand what receive means. :) I just don't kind of understand it all together. Do you maybe have an experience of this - can you pinpoint how you received this love or truth? Was it a process? What was involved?
     
  7. psalms 91

    psalms 91 Legend

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    Its called free will and choice. God wills that all be saved but all wont be because they reject Him and the gift of salvation. The bible is pretty plain that fter death there is no more chances.
     
  8. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

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    There you go again, posting ignorance of Christian Universalism, or as I prefer Ultimate Reconciliation. No one was forgiven by Jesus on the cross if everyone wasn't forgiven. That's simply scriptural truth ignored.

    2 Cor 5:14 And he died for all,..
    1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    2CO 5:18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.


    The church doesn't even know what the message of reconciliation is. Read the above scriptures through the lenses of the Spirit. The price has been paid for all. Your 'bad news' gospel to people is, you'll BE FORGIVEN if you accept Jesus. And yet scripture says Jesus was on the cross 'not even counting their trespasses against them'. Why? Because Jesus was provide the same forgiveness for us that he also gave His Roman assassins, when he forgave them from the cross. Nothing said there about ; Hey guys you're forgiven 'IF YOU BELIEVE'. Jesus paid the price for ALL or none. And if the 'price is paid', then it is paid. Whether you believe or not, in this age doesn't change the truth that echos through eternity.

    Such a statement doesn't prove Universalism or UR as wrong, it simply reveals deep indoctrination, as well as a apparent ignorance of the doctrine, some 'some' of us here.
     
  9. Healing with Jesus

    Healing with Jesus merciful listener

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    I respectfully disagree. How would it be possible for the Creator of the Universe not to get his way?

    "The LORD does whatever pleases him, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths" (Psalm 135:6).

    "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1:11-12).

    Are you saying that Jesus is a mere teacher?

    What exactly was the point of Jesus' coming to Earth, his crucifixion, his resurrection from the dead? Just to give us words of hope and encouragement? What, then, makes him any different from, say, Mahatmas Gandhi?

    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (from Matthew 7)
    What is the will of the Father? That we be witnesses and make disciples, for Jesus. In this life.

    "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:19-20).​


    Yes, he paid the price. For whom? For all those who believe.

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16, emphasis added)

    I did not participate in the poll. The language is loaded, and none of the options appeal to me. My answer is:

    God can do exactly what he wants to do, which is save all men. However, he gave all men the power the choose between following him, ignoring him, or disobeying him. Ignoring him and disobeying him have the same consequence: death. Our responsibility as Christians is to witness to God's power--not only his ability to change us in this life--but his desire and power to save us from impending doom.

    Whether we get a "second chance" to reconcile with God after our earthly death is beyond our knowledge. We all hope for this, but we cannot put stock in it. That is a risk that God did not commission us to take.
     
  10. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    When my sister was raped, God wasn't getting his way.
     
  11. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    No.
     
  12. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    You say God can do what he desires. Well, scripture says God desires all to be saved.

    Of course, but there is scripture that gives us hope that he will.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Interesting speculation but hardly the opinion of Bible scholars, seminaries, or just about any Christian denomination you can name. How do you account for you being in such a tiny minority and so far out on that limb if it's so obvious as you think?
     
  14. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Paul tells us..warns us..to remember the 1st ones that fell, angels can not be saved. Its appointed once to die then judgment. We did this. Man fell.

    Universalism I believe this was started about 185AD or around there and was a heresy. God is love mercy grace.. and so much more. Judge.. wrath. When His ways are not ours..when His thoughts are not ours. God is not a man nor thinks like one. My view is.. MORE will be saved then lost. Why I believe this? Because it comes from MAN. Man is not right.. only the Father is. See our Father looks at the heart.

    We don't. Right now..everything YOU and OTHERS and ME see is what we are judging on..be it fruits or sin. Yet the heart is a place only a GOD can look at and judge. You dont think the angels in heaven NEW the cost of what they were doing? So.. its like that here. There are those that KNOW Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life..yet say no. We know there are those that have tasted of the powers to come.. they KNOW GOD IS REAL.. and then make the choice to fall. To bring one of them back is almost impossible.

    Why? WHAT are they coming back to? They already know all that. They dont want it. And GoD.... I asked Him once.. why can you just make everyone saved...save every one. He said "dont you EVER say that again".. He was not mad yet.. that was very strong. Dont know how to say this.. but I knew in what He said that WE have to make the choice. He loves you so much.. you have to make the choice. To do anything else to tip the balance ANY WAY.. He then is no different then satan.

    But know this.. this GOD? There is NO ONE better. We will be in heaven and wonder.. WAIT.. NO WAY that guy/girl should be here. Somewhere sometime they asked.. they believed.. or never new.. have faith.. Yes..your Father is working 24/7.. never stops.. you dont leave heaven become what you created take all that pain suffering.. all the judgment punishment when you are pure holy perfect.. HE LOVES this world.
     
  15. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I most certainly have experienced the contrast between people who love truth, and people who are "willingly ignorant" (2 Peter 3), or those who love "imaginations" more than the truth.

    I believe love for truth is a learned emotion. It comes from comprehending the risk of believing lies, and the value of knowing truth.

    Most nations, companies, investors, doctors, law enforcement agencies, etc., are painfully aware of the value of truth, and are willing to invest fortunes, and in some cases lives, to acquire it.

    When it comes to matters of faith, it seems most people place higher value on other aspects of life.

    This is why Jesus promised;
    Mark 10:29-30 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
    30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
     
  16. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    Here's a verse I can't explain, and I don't know of anyone else who can.
    Romans chapter 11 verse 32
    For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
     
  17. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Universal salvation isn't God's intent.
    Rewarding obedient children is.
    Destruction of the wicked is.
    Destruction of the wicked is Love for the righteous.
    Destruction of the wicked is justice.
    Destruction of the wicked is righteousness.

    Universal salvation is naive and immature.

    Universal salvation makes righteousness and obedience meaningless.
     
  18. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    Rom 3:23-26 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
     
  19. Healing with Jesus

    Healing with Jesus merciful listener

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    My heart goes out to your sister... and you, and everyone else who's suffered through this with her.

    I was sexually abused at age 6 by my father, sexually assaulted in college, and sexually harassed more times than I can count. But I still believe that God was there, and that He is sovereign over everything. He doesn't flee circumstantially.

    We can't understand the dynamic of God's sovereignty in this life, with this earthly brain. Why does God not just permit evil, but in fact ordain it? His thoughts are higher than our thoughts... From Isaiah 55:

    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
    declares the Lord.
    9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

    The book of Job gives one of the most vivid, powerful examples of God's ordainment of suffering. There is a wonderful, concise devotion on it by Our Daily Bread's program Discover the Word. This link will change, but right now it's under the "Job & Jesus" series, on 6/1/17, called "Where is God When Times Get Tough?" Is God a “brand” you can trust?

    These are some of the most straightforward, truthful Biblical teachers I have ever heard. They question the Word, dig into it, and the Holy Spirit brings out beautiful, poignant answers.

    Most importantly... I'm praying for healing for you and your sister. It isn't an easy road, but we have great help from a loving God.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  20. CGL1023

    CGL1023 citizen of heaven

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    What you are saying and concluding is not the message of the Word of God, the bible. Misunderstanding or perverting the meaning of the bible has led to the formation of cults from the beginning. Taking ideas out of context is another way to arrive at an incorrect conclusion. Paul, in Acts 20:27, gives us the example to speak the "the whole counsel of God”
     
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