Universalism...why not?

[GillDouglas]

Universalism is mans attempt to rationalize a Just and Holy God. The very definition of "creating a god in your own image."

Amen!

 

[GillDouglas]

Universalism is mans attempt to rationalize a Just and Holy God. The very definition of "creating a god in your own image."

Universalism originated in the Garden of Eden when Satan brushed aside God’s warning and assured Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4), by blatantly contradicting His Word.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Universalism originated in the Garden of Eden when Satan brushed aside God’s warning and assured Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4), by blatantly contradicting His Word.

Bingo!

 

[The Times]

So, if God's love and patience run out on a soul upon death, either God doesn't want all men to be saved or God can't do what he wants to do. Which is it?

I voted God can not do what he wants to do within the context of saving all of mankind. The doctrine of Universalism is a erraneous concept that is totally absent of humanities free will and totally ignores a legal (righteous) binding contractual agreement (covenant) between two parties, that is God and humanity.

What did Jesus say.....

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

In this verse alone, we discern two factors in play, that is the free will of the individual to agree to be perfected by God and at the same time, to agree to enter a covenantial contract with God, through the Christ.

God wants that person to allow God to perfect him and God never retracts the offer, so long as that individual within his life time chooses to turn and make the decision. Secondly the person who agrees to be perfected by God is required to enter a conditional covenantial contract, that has clauses that would void it if the person tried to take advantage of God and to abuse it, by breaking it and by teaching others to break it also.

Jesus clearly said that many will be covenant breakers, especially in the last days and to also teach people to do likewise.

God is only one party to a person's salvation and he wants all to be saved, that is why he is so patient and long suffering and gave his only begotten Son, however God cannot break with his Son's covenantial contract neither and is obligated to comply with it, until......

...... “everything” has been put under Christ Jesus, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

It is clear, that there are two parties, that is God and humanity, who are bound by the blood covenantial contractual agreement, who are obligated by its terms.

God the Father wanting to save humanity through his only begotten Son can not go against his own righteousness in order to include all, within a Universal salvation doctrine. God is the other party, who can only make the Son subject, after death itself is no more, within the resurrection of the dead at the end of the harvest.

Jesus said......

“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Too bad for the person or persons within the inclusive universalism ideology, who think that they have zero contractual conditional obligations and who think that they can invite themselves and others to the wedding supper of the lamb of God, having little to no regard for the other party, who is God.

Jesus is clear throughout his teachings by teaching....

True and False Disciples

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Teaching Universalism is a grave mistake, it is totally absent of humanities free will and totally ignores a legal (righteous) binding contractual agreement (covenant) between two parties, that is God and humanity.

 

[faroukfarouk]

God can work on souls in this life and in the next, if he wants to in order that they eventually profess Christ.

Why would your theory work even for you, let alone anyone else, if God has revealed otherwise - faith the Saviour, John 3.16 - in His Word already?

The great gulf fixed (Luke 16.26) is not just to be wished away.

 

[surrender1]

Universalism is mans attempt to rationalize a Just and Holy God. The very definition of "creating a god in your own image."

The idea that God loves us, "but" God is also just comes from a wrong view of both Gods love and Gods justice. Replace "but" with "so" and you have a true statement. God loves us, "so" God is just.

You see, the "but" comes from the wrong view that justice entails giving us what we deserve, and that what we deserve is negative things. No, as sons and daughters of God, who are filled with the divine image, who hold the meaning of love, life, and existence within our hearts, we deserve to be restored and made whole.

The idea that all humans deserve is negative things, and that this is justice, is what causes us to dehumanize others by inflicting non-redemptive suffering on them for their wrongdoings. Just look at our justice system. Our prisons are filled with humans who are locked up in cages forgotten by society, designed not for redemption but for "giving them the negative thing they deserve."

This is our ways, not the ways of God that are higher. If we don't understand justice as being a part of love, and therefore as redemptive, then we will continue to dehumanize each other. (credit: a friend of mine)

 

[surrender1]

They are listed go look at them it is not hard...

You have the options of
God doesn't want all to be saved (unbiblical)
God can't do what he wants to do (unbiblical)
C-(way unbiblical)
D-presumptuous

Oh no you don't. You said that my options are limited in order to trap others so unless you can tell me which options I left out, your accusation is unfounded. Try again.

 

[surrender1]

Universalism originated in the Garden of Eden when Satan brushed aside God’s warning and assured Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4), by blatantly contradicting His Word.

Um...no, that's not what universalism says. The wages of sin is, indeed, death.

 

[The Times]

Universalism...why not?

The wages of sin is death, where is that written?

Within the covenantial blood contract, where there are two parties, that is God and man.

Many are called, yet few are chosen. At the end of the day God determines whether a person has discharged their obligations within the conditions of the contract.

God cannot force a person to make a person enter into contract with him or to omitt conditions within the contract or to rule himself as a party not included in the conditional contract.

If God acted any other way, then it would go against his own righteousness and be seen as coercion, that is.....

the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

An example is.....

"it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"

So it would not be a legally binding blood covenant contract if coercion is involved by either party. God does not want robots, however the Luciferean elites want a global technocratic Universal society, through a quasi like Universal religious system, where humanity is the head, specifically the elites and the rest are the borg collective.

So whenever Universalism is pushed, our deity Jesus Christ is being diminished, where their push is to do away with the blood covenant.

Could the original poster answer as to whether he is obligated to the blood covenant of Jesus Christ. This is what we ought to ask these persons who push Universalism.

 

[The Times]

Um...no, that's not what universalism says. The wages of sin is, indeed, death.

Please answer if you may....

Are you completely obligated to the blood covenant of Jesus Christ?

 

[GillDouglas]

Um...no, that's not what universalism says. The wages of sin is, indeed, death.

You do understand that there are two deaths, right? The first being bodily death (not ultimate), the second being spiritual death (ultimate).

 

[surrender1]

The doctrine of Universalism is a erraneous concept that is totally absent of humanities free will and totally ignores a legal (righteous) binding contractual agreement (covenant) between two parties, that is God and humanity.

No, it doesn't. Universalism says that God can still work with souls after death and those souls will eventually submit to God willingly.

 

[surrender1]

Please answer if you may....

Are you completely obligated to the blood covenant of Jesus Christ?

I don't know what your question means. Please clarify.

 

[surrender1]

Why would your theory work even for you, let alone anyone else, if God has revealed otherwise - faith the Saviour, John 3.16 - in His Word already?

Jesus can be believed upon after death.

The great gulf fixed (Luke 16.26) is not just to be wished away.

That's a parable. It isn't literal.

 

[surrender1]

You do understand that there are two deaths, right? The first being bodily death (not ultimate), the second being spiritual death (ultimate).

I take the bible literally. So the wages of sin is death.

 

[surrender1]

Universalism...why not?

The wages of sin is death, where is that written?

Within the covenantial blood contract, where there are two parties, that is God and man.

Many are called, yet few are chosen. At the end of the day God determines whether a person has discharged their obligations within the conditions of the contract.

God cannot force a person to make a person enter into contract with him or to omitt conditions within the contract or to rule himself as a party not included in the conditional contract.

If God acted any other way, then it would go against his own righteousness and be seen as coercion, that is.....

the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

An example is.....

"it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"

So it would not be a legally binding blood covenant contract if coercion is involved by either party. God does not want robots, however the Luciferean elites want a global technocratic Universal society, through a quasi like Universal religious system, where humanity is the head, specifically the elites and the rest are the borg collective.

So whenever Universalism is pushed, our deity Jesus Christ is being diminished, where their push is to do away with the blood covenant.

Could the original poster answer as to whether he is obligated to the blood covenant of Jesus Christ. This is what we ought to ask these persons who push Universalism.

I don't know exactly what you mean when you say one is "obligated" to the blood covenant of Jesus. God can work with souls after death and they can willingly come to Christ and profess Christ.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Jesus can be believed upon after death.

You're unlikely to find a clear Scripture for your theory. Hebrews 1 says the Lord Jesus 'by Himself purged our sins'. Hebrews 11 indicates that faith is the operative principle, not necromancy.

 

[surrender1]

You're unlikely to find a clear Scripture for your theory.

Enough to give me hope. Talk about good news!

John 12:32- "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Acts 3:21- Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.

Romans 5:18- Therefore, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men.

1 Cor 15:22-28- For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Phil 2:9-11- For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1st Timothy 2:4-This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Titus 2:11- For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.

Hebrews 2:9-What we do see is Jesus, who was given a position "a little lower than the angels"; and because he suffered death for us, he is now "crowned with glory and honor." Yes, by God's grace, Jesus tasted death for everyone.

1st John 2:2-He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

2nd Peter 3:9-The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Hebrews 1 says the Lord Jesus 'by Himself purged our sins'. Hebrews 11 indicates that faith is the operative principle, not necromancy.

And God can continue to work with souls after death. I'm sure God will continue to work with believers' souls after death. Yes?

 

[friend of]

Universalism is a statement which implies that disobeying God doesn't matter and that there's no difference between good and evil.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Enough to give me hope. Talk about good news!

John 12:32- "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Acts 3:21- Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.

Romans 5:18- Therefore, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men.

1 Cor 15:22-28- For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Phil 2:9-11- For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1st Timothy 2:4-This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Titus 2:11- For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.

Hebrews 2:9-What we do see is Jesus, who was given a position "a little lower than the angels"; and because he suffered death for us, he is now "crowned with glory and honor." Yes, by God's grace, Jesus tasted death for everyone.

1st John 2:2-He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

2nd Peter 3:9-The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

And God can continue to work with souls after death. I'm sure God will continue to work with believers' souls after death. Yes?

You ignore the specific contexts of 'all' and choose to apply them how you want. You also teach that you can die in unbelief but then exercise saving faith afterwards.

It's a theology of wishful thinking, when there is no clear Biblical basis for exercising saving faith after death.