Why are we accountable if we did not ask to be exist?

[Jezmeyah]

This is a frustration of mine. I'm not necessarily a non believer. But this is a topic anyone could ask so I ask it here.

I did not ask to be born. Why does God hold me accountable for anything?

He created me, gave me a spirit im supposed to make sure conforms to his destinity - otherwise im doomed. gee.... thanks :/ so gracious of You. Sometimes im like... can I go back to not existing.... no? k... thanks for nothing! (i say that sarcastically today but not always)

What am I not realizing?

It seems that you are suffering from the responsibilities of spiritual maturity being thrust upon you when you don't feel that you qualify. Just because a sermon is given on the topic of spiritual maturity and it's obligations, doesn't mean that you are required to demonstrate it from that moment on.

Only if you consider yourself ready should you attempt anything. That's what you did when you as a toddler took your first unaided steps on your own.

We are all of us destined for glorious perfection, yet none of us can make it happen to ourselves. It is God that causes us to change from mortal to immortal.

Let us all recognize our weaknesses so that we can recognize and rejoice that it is God's grace that makes us strong.

If this is not what you were looking for as an answer, then I at least have found encouragement in it.

 

[dc87]

I assumed you would easily read it from between the lines, I was asking you that question.

So which would you choose?

like i said.... not exist?

 

[dc87]

Hi there, yes I did notice you have that belief. I am wondering where you gained that belief .. specifically whether it can be substantiated by the scriptures? Do you remember where that belief was introduced? Did another Christian suggest it to you once, or did you maybe get that thought while watching a TV show or movie, or is it something that you picked up while skimming on the internet one day? Maybe it's just your own assumption about how to rationalise a particular problem. If so, then I'd quite like to analyse that problem with you, because I do not assume that the rebellion in heaven happened until the moment that the serpent tempted Eve (this is what seems the most sensible way to rationalise Genesis 3:14-15). There is no indication in the story, (and I don't know of any indication that the ancient prophets believed so either), that there was rebellion in heaven before the fall. But, it would not surprise me that someone has decided to teach that. I am just wondering whether we can sort that out in the first place, because that seems to be a good starting point for you to understand the fall as the tragedy it is, and to understand that God is longsuffering and merciful instead of irrational and cruel (as it seems to describe your present views of Him).

From various theologians. Simple logic since the angels fall was obviously before we were tempted. So I assume it was before we were created but may have very well been all during the creation. This is not a concrete belief and open to change and opinion.

No matter whether it was before or during it still does not answer the question as to why we are accountable. Lucifer has access to be in the presence of God directly (book of Job) so he indeed is accountable. We dont.

 

[dc87]

I think you've over complicated this whole idea of accountability. Each one of us has a conscience, correct? Well leave it at that. This is only a issue with you due too being exposed to a belief system that says that "We're accountable "

What does conscience have to do with it? We have the ten commandments as well. That doesnt answer the question why I am held accountable when we dont follow them. I never signed this contract saying I agree to exist and be subjugated to such.

 

[dc87]

It seems that you are suffering from the responsibilities of spiritual maturity being thrust upon you when you don't feel that you qualify. Just because a sermon is given on the topic of spiritual maturity and it's obligations, doesn't mean that you are required to demonstrate it from that moment on.

Only if you consider yourself ready should you attempt anything. That's what you did when you as a toddler took your first unaided steps on your own.

We are all of us destined for glorious perfection, yet none of us can make it happen to ourselves. It is God that causes us to change from mortal to immortal.

Let us all recognize our weaknesses so that we can recognize and rejoice that it is God's grace that makes us strong.

If this is not what you were looking for as an answer, then I at least have found encouragement in it.

Acknowledging that I have a long way to go doesnt necessarily get me there. Yes apparently we are all waiting on God to do the work no matter how much we ask but that is a COMPLETELY different topic.

Right now I'm asking why we are charged with whether 'we knew or didnt knew Jesus' to begin with? Why is it my responsibility at all to find association with Christ. There was a post saying that this is similar to a teenager asking 'why is it my responsibilty to feed the dog?'. this is completely different. im not asking about this temporal thing that is simple and mindless. Man kind is not programmed to 'not feed the dog' as we are to sin. There is no comparison between living without sin for all eternity and feeding the pets. Also when we die we dont have to worry about feeding the dog anymore. There is an end to it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

like i said.... not exist?

You followed that with a question mark, so are you saying you would choose to not exist or to never have existed?

 

[dc87]

You followed that with a question mark, so are you saying you would choose to not exist or to never have existed?

whats the difference....

 

[Kenny'sID]

whats the difference....

What's the difference between yes or no?

OK, I wasn't certain but it's now clear you are evading, and that's fine, I think I have a pretty god idea as to why now.

 

[dc87]

You followed that with a question mark, so are you saying you would choose to not exist or to never have existed?

lol you seem to be trying to confuse ppl. you are asking if i would choose to not exist OR to never have existed? i am asking what is the difference between not existing or never having existed? are you saying vanishing now vs not ever being born?

what im doing is simply saying that so far IMO i think many would be very grateful including myself if Adam would have given himself a vasectomy. It also would have saved God much anger, headache and sadness.

 

[JoeP222w]

This is a frustration of mine. I'm not necessarily a non believer. But this is a topic anyone could ask so I ask it here.

I did not ask to be born. Why does God hold me accountable for anything?

He created me, gave me a spirit im supposed to make sure conforms to his destinity - otherwise im doomed. gee.... thanks :/ so gracious of You. Sometimes im like... can I go back to not existing.... no? k... thanks for nothing! (i say that sarcastically today but not always)

What am I not realizing?

Romans 9:13-23 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." (14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

 

[dc87]

Romans 9:13-23 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." (14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

depending on how you read those verses... it can be kind of degrading. so some of us were made to be trash.... i dont believe that but some people may read it that way.

 

[Jezmeyah]

Acknowledging that I have a long way to go doesnt necessarily get me there. Yes apparently we are all waiting on God to do the work no matter how much we ask but that is a COMPLETELY different topic.

Then I apologize that I've missed the point of your post.

Right now I'm asking why we are charged with whether 'we knew or didn't knew Jesus' to begin with? Why is it my responsibility at all to find association with Christ.

I don't quite get this either, are you saying that you don't want to have to do anything in the relationship with Jesus? Are you saying that you'd rather just get to the perfect part without enjoying the journey to get there?

Sorry if I'm totally not getting it at all.

There was a post saying that this is similar to a teenager asking 'why is it my responsibilty to feed the dog?'. this is completely different. im not asking about this temporal thing that is simple and mindless. Man kind is not programmed to 'not feed the dog' as we are to sin. There is no comparison between living without sin for all eternity and feeding the pets. Also when we die we dont have to worry about feeding the dog anymore. There is an end to it.

Well rather when the dog dies you don't have to worry about feeding the dog anymore.

In eternity you will have to find association with Christ. So you might as well start now as later.

 

[chriscomplex]

What does conscience have to do with it? We have the ten commandments as well. That doesnt answer the question why I am held accountable when we dont follow them. I never signed this contract saying I agree to exist and be subjugated to such.

This all comes down to being responsible to Yahweh, not the fact you're responsible period.

 

[4x4toy]

This is a frustration of mine. I'm not necessarily a non believer. But this is a topic anyone could ask so I ask it here.

I did not ask to be born. Why does God hold me accountable for anything?

He created me, gave me a spirit im supposed to make sure conforms to his destinity - otherwise im doomed. gee.... thanks :/ so gracious of You. Sometimes im like... can I go back to not existing.... no? k... thanks for nothing! (i say that sarcastically today but not always)

What am I not realizing?

You were born on purpose for a purpose . Why don't you get on board and see where this thing can take you .. .. Every one goes through a stage like this .. Attitude Bro .

 

[Kenny'sID]

lol you seem to be trying to confuse ppl. you are asking if i would choose to not exist OR to never have existed? i am asking what is the difference between not existing or never having existed? are you saying vanishing now vs not ever being born?

what im doing is simply saying that so far IMO i think many would be very grateful including myself if Adam would have given himself a vasectomy. It also would have saved God much anger, headache and sadness.

They were intended to be the same thing, the "or" just preceded another explanation...either one. "Or" not exist anymore ..as if you never did exist.

But the way you branch off making a big to do about that tells me you are still evading, but no problem.

 

[JoeP222w]

depending on how you read those verses... it can be kind of degrading. so some of us were made to be trash.... i dont believe that but some people may read it that way.

Does God, the Creator of all things, have the sovereign right to do with His creation as He chooses, according to the counsel of His own will?

Additionally, we do not know who the elect are, so the gospel is to be proclaimed to all mankind.

 

[dc87]

They were intended to be the same thing, the "or" just preceded another explanation...either one. "Or" not exist anymore ..as if you never did exist.

But the way you branch off making a big to do about that tells me you are still evading, but no problem.

No I'm not evading. Like i said.... not exist.

 

[Serving Zion]

From various theologians. Simple logic since the angels fall was obviously before we were tempted. So I assume it was before we were created but may have very well been all during the creation. This is not a concrete belief and open to change and opinion.

My first impression is that you seem to view eternity as having a concept of time that is detached from the physical realm. I guess we don't really need to get into a drawn-out conversation to agree on this issue right now. I did see this as being an assumption you have adopted that is not necessarily true, but having a critical impact upon your theological perspective of God - His reason for creating earthly life.

I just wonder, did you read that article I showed you in post #245? There was one really key paragraph there that I'd like to make sure you have noticed:

Our inherent free will does have some bearing upon the actual shape of history, that can not by logical constraint, be fully His own to control. This, also with the inherently limited nature of the human coupled with survival instinct, must have been the most fundamental temptation for the devil in the first place, to bet that he was able to succeed with an empire of deceit (John 8:44).

.. showing a perspective that the rebellion in heaven was due to a temptation great enough that the angels chose to oppose God's sovereignty, believing that they could succeed against Him. As I have known, this is always the context of the rebellion in heaven.

No matter whether it was before or during it still does not answer the question as to why we are accountable. Lucifer has access to be in the presence of God directly (book of Job) so he indeed is accountable. We dont.

I would like to make sure we are on the same page, so I request that we introduce the scriptures in issue here. I am assuming that you are speaking about The Final Judgement as described in Matthew 25:31-46, where the sheep inherit everlasting life but the goats inherit destruction. If that is the scripture that you have in mind, would you mind reading it, quoting and explaining the parts that you think are not fair? .. Also, if there is any other scripture that you have in mind, please also bring them forward.

 

[Kenny'sID]

No I'm not evading. Like i said.... not exist.

Thanks, are you nondenominational Atheist or Christian, or..?

I ask because I've seen Atheists claim nondenominational...cute but confuses some issues.

 

[dc87]

Thanks, are you nondenominational Atheist or Christian, or..?

I ask because I've seen Atheists claim nondenominational...cute but confuses some issues.

a non-denominational struggling wanna be christian that knows God.