Orthodox vs. Protestant belief differences?

[Vicomte13]

So... is menstruation a sin? Same exact situation going on there.

Pshaw!

You can't be serious. Menstruation is an inevitable process that does not involve either fantasy or pleasure.

Masturbation is a voluntary act whose purpose is to satisfy lust by fantasy-driven pleasure.

Masturbation in boys is not the same thing as menstruation in girls. It's the same exact thing as masturbation in girls.

Obviously.

And it's gravely sinful, according to the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Always has been, going back to Jesus saying that if one looks at another with lust in the heart, one has already committed adultery in the heart.

Girls don't hide the fact they are menstruating from their parents. They do hide the fact that they are masturbating. So do boys. This is because everybody knows from the beginning that it's a serious sin and something to hide.

It's such a squidgy subject that nobody here wants to address it. It's embarrassing and hidden, because it's sinful, and everybody knows it.

 

[Vicomte13]

I believe talking and praying to Jesus dead mother is an idol.....

I have been to the vatican and seen peters bronze toe rubbed off over the last 100s of years...
I believe thats an idol....

I also believe depicting Jesus as a long haired feminine looking hippie who talks like a girl is also an idol.....

Jesus had long hair. The Shroud of Turin is his burial cloth. We know what he looked like.

 

[Silmarien]

Girls don't hide the fact they are menstruating from their parents. They do hide the fact that they are masturbating. So do boys. This is because everybody knows from the beginning that it's a serious sin and something to hide.

It's such a squidgy subject that nobody here wants to address it. It's embarrassing and hidden, because it's sinful, and everybody knows it.

I'm not arguing over whether or not it's sinful. I don't think that something being embarassing and hidden is a sign of it being sinful, however, because women are as unlikely to discuss menstruation in public as they are masturbation. And as unlikely to discuss it with anyone of the opposite sex. All things related to that area of the body, natural or otherwise, are squidgy subjects that nobody wants to address, so the fact that people want to hide it doesn't mean anything.

Which doesn't mean that it's not sinful; just that this reasoning is flawed.

 

[Jack Isaacks]

I believe talking and praying to Jesus dead mother is an idol.....

I have been to the vatican and seen peters bronze toe rubbed off over the last 100s of years...
I believe thats an idol....

I also believe depicting Jesus as a long haired feminine looking hippie who talks like a girl is also an idol.....

Good for you.

Contrary to what you think, we make NO idol of the most holy Theotokos, or her divine Son Jesus.

Think what you will; you will anyway.

Christ is risen!

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

So... is menstruation a sin? Same exact situation going on there.





You guys are saying different things!

I mean Penal Substitution in terms of Reformed theology. (Or maybe even Anselmian satisfaction.) Not Ransom Theory or other models that have some element of substitution going on.

Menstruation is wilfull stimulation of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for sexual gratification??

Jack doesn't quite understand the Protestant theory of atonement, although I'm sure he understands the Orthodox one.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Statues are not idols. Neither are painted icons. Catholics and the Orthodox do not worship either. Catholics and the Orthodox do not believe that God is present in the object, do not worship the objects, and do not pray TO them. A statue and an icon are no more idols than a movie about Jesus is an idol. The word "Idol" is not synonymous with the word "statue". An idol is an object of WORSHIP.

Although it is true that Orthodox don't use statues because the Greek and Hebrew words translated as "graven image" are "form", which is often understood to mean a replica. It also helped ensure pagan converts didn't intuitively worship icons as idols (even in the West, statues were not used much until the second millennium, probably for the same reason).

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Do you know the specific details ooof the situation Monk Brendan was talking about? I don't.

Yes, because he explained them when I expressed doubts. A parish said he could not come in if he wasn't interested in converting. A bad policy, certainly, but not ethnic prejudice.

 

[Tangible]

You would be correct. Communion would pointless if Christ were simply a penal substitute.

Can you expand on that a bit?

And what if penal substitution were one facet of many in attempting to grapple with the whole concept of justification?

@Constantine the Sinner

I wasn't sure if you had seen my response. I really would like to know.

 

[Tangible]

It is illuminating to know what one is supposed to believe if one is, say, a Lutheran.

Welcome to the Book of Concord

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

@Constantine the Sinner

I wasn't sure if you had seen my response. I really would like to know.

I replied in the same page

 

[prodromos]

Yes, because he explained them when I expressed doubts. A parish said he could not come in if he wasn't interested in converting. A bad policy, certainly, but not ethnic prejudice.

Thanks, that certainly does make a difference.

 

[Tangible]

Although it is true that Orthodox don't use statues because the Greek and Hebrew words translated as "graven image" are "form", which is often understood to mean a replica. It also helped ensure pagan converts didn't intuitively worship icons as idols (even in the West, statues were not used much until the second millennium, probably for the same reason).

Interestingly (at least to me!) is the fact that there is a steady progression from painting, which has a slight yet definite three dimensional character, through bas relief, to stand-alone 3D sculpture.

Where do you draw the line? One form blurs into another.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Interestingly (at least to me!) is the fact that there is a steady progression from painting, which has a slight yet definite three dimensional character, through bas relief, to stand-alone 3D sculpture.

Where do you draw the line? One form blurs into another.

3/4 relief wood carving is used in Western rite. Even statues can be okay provided they are done in such a way that function basically as reliefs, such as with flat backs and are wood.

 

[Vicomte13]

Welcome to the Book of Concord

Thank you. I will read it.

But could we just do shorthand answers to those questions? I'll do it for the Catholics.

 

[Tangible]

The idea of Christ's death having a juridical premise is correct, he did, as he said, fulfill the law. But the Narnia idea is proper here: God did not put Christ to death, that would mean God killed himself. Rather the Devil, who brought death and bondage to the law on us, did, not knowing it would end the law and his power as "warden" (a criminal warden, to be sure).

And yet God permitted it.

I was hoping you would answer my question regarding penal substitution as one of several ways of understanding justification.

It seems short-sighted to categorically deny one way of understanding justification - a subject beyond our full comprehension - when it is viewed as one way of understanding among several.

 

[prodromos]

I am just as Orthodox as the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia.

Just to clarify, you are no more Orthodox than the so called 'Macedonian' Orthodox Church, which is not in communion with any other Orthodox Church and is not recognised by any Orthodox Church. You are less so because while not being in communion with the Orthodox, you are in communion with the bishop of Rome who has long been in schism with the Orthodox. You've picked which side of the fence you are on so regardless of how similar you may appear in terms of Liturgy and praxis, you cannot claim to be Orthodox.

[Staff edit].

 

[Marvin Knox]

Trying to figure out which one I align more with, Orthodox or Protestant.
If anyone of sufficient knowledge can point out the salient differences.
Much obliged!
God bless~

I can't put myself forward as any kind of expert on Orthodoxy.

But, in my time here in the forum, it strikes me that Protestants believe that one is saved and then, by virture of that new relatioship with God, begins a transformation of character because of the Holy Spirit now working in them to do His pleasue.

Orthodox, on the other hand, feel that they are working with the Holy Spirit to change their character in order to achieve salvation.

That's a rather shallow explantion. But things seem to be in reverse order, as it were, between the two groups.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

And yet God permitted it.

I was hoping you would answer my question regarding penal substitution as one of several ways of understanding justification.

It seems short-sighted to categorically deny one way of understanding justification - a subject beyond our full comprehension - when it is viewed as one way of understanding among several.

I categorically deny that God committed suicide. I categorically deny that Christ's death is something that occurred apart from us, as opposed to something we are saved by *sharing in*.

 

[Silmarien]

Menstruation is wilfull stimulation of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for sexual gratification??

Nah, I meant the idea that if you feel deeply shameful of something, that's a sign that it's a sin. Because shame and silence are attached to all sorts of things that clearly are not. (I probably should have clarified and not assumed that people could read my mind. )

Jack doesn't quite understand the Protestant theory of atonement, although I'm sure he understands the Orthodox one.

Ahh, okay.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

I can't put myself forward as any kind of expert on Orthodoxy.

But, in my time here in the forum, it strikes me that Protestants believe that one is saved and then, by virture of that new relatioship with God, begins a transformation of character because of the Holy Spirit now working in them to do His pleasue.

Orthodox, on the other hand, feel that they are working with the Holy Spirit to change their character in order to achieve salvation.

That's a rather shallow explantion. But things seem to be in reverse order, as it were, between the two groups.

Orthodox believe that cooperating with God means your operations and his becoming one (thus you become operationally God, but not essentially God--this is Theosis). Also, there are Protestants who reject monergism, such as Methodists and Pentecostals.