The Eternality of Hell

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus said, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna--the Lake of Fire]. " (Matthew 10:28)

The evil dead who are judged at the Final Judgment and end up in the Lake of Fire, are said to be "dead' in Revelation 20 but then they go to a "Second Death". That apparently destroys both their bodies and souls in Gehenna.

Yes. The Second Death (the Lake of Fire) is the destruction of one's soul and body. The saints will witness the lifeless remains from this destruction.


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[SarahsKnight]

Denying the truth, doesn't make it go away. You want the best of both worlds...live In sin and have God be with you.. Doesn't work that way. If you live in sin, your his enemy

That is a sheer assumption you have made about me, that i want to live in sin and also have God be with me, and it only proves my implicit point from earlier that traditionalists seem to think (and wrongly so) that conditionalists like me believing in literal death and destruction in Gehenna for unbelievers will give them an excuse to live in sin because, to traditionalists, the conditionalist's view of the final punishment is too "easy" or something.

And thank you for also implying that I am one of God"s enemies. That's, uh ... that's really great. I am sure God Himself is just cheering you on in your implicit condemnation of me to hell, because eternal torment is just so righteous and true.

(And please do not respond to this with trying to dress up your words as having just been "loving" or "gentle rebuke". Because, come on ....)

 

[SarahsKnight]

The rich man was not screaming so bad that he could not carry on a normal conversation. The pain would have to be pretty mild for the scenario of the rich man and Abraham to take place. So even if the rich man was in the actual flames and not nearby them, he was not experiencing hell like many depict it today with men screaming in pain and their flesh sizzling, etc. However, while it is possible he was in the actual flames, more than likely the richman was discomforted by the heat of the flames either nearby him or in the great gulf between him and Abraham.


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This.

Eternal torment proponents do not appear to see that even IF the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is meant to be a true story that really happened and not a parable, it STILL doesn't prove the doctrine of eternal torment with any absolute certainty. Nothing says the Rich Man was there FOREVER being tormented, and i thought the story mentioned him in Hades, not Gehenna (where most traditionalists believe that the eternal torment takes place, with Hades being the "intermediate state" where both the righteous and the wicked go after they die on Earth). So how then does this prove eternal torment if the story isn't even taking place in hell (The Gehenna hell, I mean)?

On top of that, is the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man even supposed to be about what happens to either the saved or the unsaved after they die?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This.

Eternal torment proponents do not appear to see that even IF the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is meant to be a true story that really happened and not a parable, it STILL doesn't prove the doctrine of eternal torment with any absolute certainty. Nothing says the Rich Man was there FOREVER being tormented, and i thought the story mentioned him in Hades, not Gehenna (where most traditionalists believe that the eternal torment takes place, with Hades being the "intermediate state" where both the righteous and the wicked go after they die on Earth). So how then does this prove eternal torment if the story isn't even taking place in hell (The Gehenna hell, I mean)?

I absolutely 100% agree. Well said.

On top of that, is the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man even supposed to be about what happens to either the saved or the unsaved after they die?

Well, there is no indication in Luke 16 that the Story of Lazarus and the Richman is not a literal description of what happens after a wicked man dies. First, none of Jesus's parables are things that could not happen. Second, the story of Lazarus and the Richman does not sound like it has obvious metaphorical elements within it that is often employed in the Bible elsewhere. For example: John had a vision of things like a sword coming out of Christ's mouth and a beast that was made up of various different animals. But this again was a vision, sort of like a dream. For obviously there are literal things happening in Revelation and metaphorical things being described to us, as well. The story of the Richman and Lazarus is just told to us plainly by Jesus. Nobody had a dream or a vision, etc. No colorful language was being overemphasized, as well. For example: Nobody is said to be walking upside down in hades with people talking backwards while pink poodles would do back flips through rings of green fire. The situation described sounds real as if it could actually happen.

But the richman is not screaming in pain so badly like he would be in real fire here upon this Earth so as not to carry on a normal conversation with somebody.

This leads us to two possibilities.

(a) The richman was in the flames but the pain that these flames cause is mild enough so as to carry on a normal conversation. In other words, it is not the hell described to us like in popular movies, books, and or Christian videos where the wicked are screaming in pain from the flames of hell while their flesh sizzles. That is not what we see described to us by Jesus. But people see that this is what is happening because they tend to have overactive imaginations and they believe what the majority of Bible believing churches say instead of just examing the text for themselves.

(b) The richman was referring to the HEAT of the flame in front of him (either nearby or in the great gulf between him and Abraham). In other words, when the rich-man said "I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:24) it would sort of be like if I said "I am tormented in this soldier." (referring to the flatulence from the soldier in front of me). For the first appearance of the English word "this" is used by Adam to refer to Eve who was in front of him (Genesis 2:23). Need another analogy and or another verse? Okay. Well, "in this" in Luke 16:24 is sort of like if I said I am happy in this car --- yet the car is in front of me. Similar language like this can be found with the words "in these" in Isaiah 57:6. Granted, I am not discounting the idea that the rich-man was burning in the actual flame itself, but I do not believe he was burning down there for thousands of years consciously being aware of that fact because God is fair and just in His Judgments.

This is one of the reasons why I believe the wicked in hades go though long periods of sleep in addition to going through moments of being awake or with them being conscious. The second reason why I believe the wicked will be awake and they will be asleep is because Scripture suggests that the dead are aware of things when they die, and Scripture also suggests that the dead are not aware of anything when they die. Two sets or lists of verses are both true. So when they are put together, they give us a complete picture of the puzzle of what is happening. Plus, it supports the morality and goodness of GOD, as well. For why would GOD punish people in hell for thousands of years consciously for a finite amount of crimes committed here upon this Earth? Such a thing would not sound like fair justice. But we know God is into fair justice because Scripture says,

47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
(Luke 12:47-48).

Sir Arhur Conan Doyle once said,
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."


Side Note:

Oh, and Scripture says, God is love (1 John 4:8), and God is good (Mark 10:18); And God sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous (Matthew 5:45). Such truths would not seem consistent with the God of ECT (Eternal Consious Torment). So in light of this and the many verses that cearly support Conditional Immortality: We are led to the conclusion that after the Judgment, the wicked will be destroyed or annihilated at some point both body and soul in the Lake of Fire.


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[LadyCrosstalk]

I absolutely 100% agree. Well said.



Well, there is no indication in Luke 16 that the Story of Lazarus and the Richman is not a literal description of what happens after a wicked man dies. First, none of Jesus's parables are things that could not happen. Second, the story of Lazarus and the Richman does not sound like it has obvious metaphorical elements within it that is often employed in the Bible elsewhere. For example: John had a vision of things like a sword coming out of Christ's mouth and a beast that was made up of various different animals. But this again was a vision, sort of like a dream. For obviously there are literal things happening in Revelation and metaphorical things being described to us, as well. The story of the Richman and Lazarus is just told to us plainly by Jesus. Nobody had a dream or a vision, etc. No colorful language was being overemphasized, as well. For example: Nobody is said to be walking upside down in hades with people talking backwards while pink poodles would do back flips through rings of green fire. The situation described sounds real as if it could actually happen.

But the richman is not screaming in pain so badly like he would be in real fire here upon this Earth so as not to carry on a normal conversation with somebody.

This leads us to two possibilities.

(a) The richman was in the flames but the pain that these flames cause is mild enough so as to carry on a normal conversation. In other words, it is not the hell described to us like in popular movies, books, and or Christian videos where the wicked are screaming in pain from the flames of hell while their flesh sizzles. That is not what we see described to us by Jesus. But people see that this is what is happening because they tend to have overactive imaginations and they believe what the majority of Bible believing churches say instead of just examing the text for themselves.

(b) The richman was referring to the HEAT of the flame in front of him (either nearby or in the great gulf between him and Abraham). In other words, when the rich-man said "I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:24) it would sort of be like if I said "I am tormented in this soldier." (referring to the flatulence from the soldier in front of me). For the first appearance of the English word "this" is used by Adam to refer to Eve who was in front of him (Genesis 2:23). Need another analogy and or another verse? Okay. Well, "in this" in Luke 16:24 is sort of like if I said I am happy in this car --- yet the car is in front of me. Similar language like this can be found with the words "in these" in Isaiah 57:6. Granted, I am not discounting the idea that the rich-man was burning in the actual flame itself, but I do not believe he was burning down there for thousands of years consciously being aware of that fact because God is fair and just in His Judgments.

This is one of the reasons why I believe the wicked in hades go though long periods of sleep in addition to going through moments of being awake or with them being conscious. The second reason why I believe the wicked will be awake and they will be asleep is because Scripture suggests that the dead are aware of things when they die, and Scripture also suggests that the dead are not aware of anything when they die. Two sets or lists of verses are both true. So when they are put together, they give us a complete picture of the puzzle of what is happening. Plus, it supports the morality and goodness of GOD, as well. For why would GOD punish people in hell for thousands of years consciously for a finite amount of crimes committed here upon this Earth? Such a thing would not sound like fair justice. But we know God is into fair justice because Scripture says,

47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
(Luke 12:47-48).

Sir Arhur Conan Doyle once said,
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."


Side Note:

Oh, and Scripture says, God is love (1 John 4:8), and God is good (Mark 10:18); And God sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous (Matthew 5:45). Such truths would not seem consistent with the God of ECT (Eternal Consious Torment). So in light of this and the many verses that cearly support Conditional Immortality: We are led to the conclusion that after the Judgment, the wicked will be destroyed or annihilated at some point both body and soul in the Lake of Fire.


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In addition to that, in His teaching on the Law and how it would always be in place until "all has been accomplished", Jesus said this: “Settle matters quickly with your adversary [our accuser, Satan] who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way [in this life], or your adversary may hand you over to the judge [God], and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison [for punishment in "the place of torment" in Hades]. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." (Matthew 5:25-26) I read this as Jesus' warning to the Jewish people that breaking any part of the Law put one at risk of punishment in "the place of torment" in Hades, to pay for their own sins. He said, even calling someone a "fool" puts one at risk. Sin extracts a payment. Those Jews who were wise, understood that salvation was then, as now, by faith in the Messiah--the "Lamb of God who takes away sin" (John the Baptist seemed to be well-acquainted with the theology of it).

Only appropriating grace, by faith in the Son of God, as our Redeemer and friend, will enable us to avoid having to pay for our own sins. It isn't that Jesus did away with the Law (He said he did not come to abolish the Law of Moses)--it is that He took the penalty for our infractions of the Law on Himself.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In addition to that, in His teaching on the Law and how it would always be in place until "all has been accomplished", Jesus said this: “Settle matters quickly with your adversary [our accuser, Satan] who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way [in this life], or your adversary may hand you over to the judge [God], and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison [for punishment in "the place of torment" in Hades]. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." (Matthew 5:25-26) I read this as Jesus' warning to the Jewish people that breaking any part of the Law put one at risk of punishment in "the place of torment" in Hades, to pay for their own sins. He said, even calling someone a "fool" puts one at risk. Sin extracts a payment.

I love what you said here. I never seen it in that light before. Very informative.
Thank you.

Only appropriating grace, by faith in the Son of God, as our Redeemer and friend, will enable us to avoid having to pay for our own sins. It isn't that Jesus did away with the Law (He said he did not come to abolish the Law of Moses)--it is that He took the penalty for our infractions of the Law on Himself.

I believe a true faith in Jesus also involves a faith that has good works and it is a faith of living a holy life. For I believe Jesus is the source of our salvation (1 John 5:12) and that if Christ abides in us, then the good fruit or good works of Jesus will be evident in our lives. We are ultimately saved by God's grace because doing a work does not save in and of itself. If a believer sins, they get clean or forgiven by going to Jesus and confessing their sins (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). But action must follow our belief in the Savior within our faith in order for it to be a true faith. For if we walk in the light as Christ as in the light so that blood of Jesus will continue to cleanse them of all sin (1 John 1:7). For Proverbs 28:12 says, he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see the Lord; And we can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). Hebrews 5:9 says, "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James says, "by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24). Our works? No of course not. The works of God done in us.

For Paul is talking about Initial or Ultimate Salvation and Man Directed Works in Ephesians 2:8-9; And James is talking about God directed works done in you as a part of the Sanctification Process after a person accepts the Lord in James 2.


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[LadyCrosstalk]

I love what you said here. I never seen it in that light before. Very informative.
Thank you.



I believe a true faith in Jesus also involves a faith that has good works and it is a faith of living a holy life. For I believe Jesus is the source of our salvation (1 John 5:12) and that if Christ abides in us, then the good fruit or good works of Jesus will be evident in our lives. We are ultimately saved by God's grace because doing a work does not save in and of itself. If a believer sins, they get clean or forgiven by going to Jesus and confessing their sins (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). But action must follow our belief in the Savior within our faith in order for it to be a true faith. For if we walk in the light as Christ as in the light so that blood of Jesus will continue to cleanse them of all sin (1 John 1:7). For Proverbs 28:12 says, he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see the Lord; And we can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). Hebrews 5:9 says, "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James says, "by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24). Our works? No of course not. The works of God done in us.

For Paul is talking about Initial or Ultimate Salvation and Man Directed Works in Ephesians 2:8-9; And James is talking about God directed works done in you as a part of the Sanctification Process after a person accepts the Lord in James 2.


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While I agree with what you have said, works are for those who are mature in Christ. One mistake that I think many churches make is to get the newly saved into works before they are mature enough to handle it. Pastors often wonder why new Christians crash and burn; I think this is the likely reason why (in addition to old associations dragging them back into sin--it usually happens at the same time).

On the other hand, Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”(Matthew 11:28-30)

I have seen more than one immature Christian who gets exhausted and depressed by demands placed on them to serve ("burnout"). IMO, the first three years of a new Christian's walk with the Lord should be spent on intensive study of the Bible with an excellent teacher. This is the nourishment that their souls crave. It will strengthen them for the battle (and the enemy ALWAYS shows up to do battle when one starts doing the work of holiness). We don't expect one-year-old babies to run marathons.

The other mistake we make is thinking that those who have spent their lives in church and among Christians, are believers themselves (or are mature believers). Many a "Christian" teen has gone away to university and "abandoned their faith" when they didn't really have faith to begin with. We should always treat every churchgoer as if they could be a new Christian--because maybe they are.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It does not tell that people come from the dead/hell and get beaten with however many stripes. The wicked people that will be cut asunder before they go to the lake of fire seem to be those at the time of the end of the world -that get divided up as to good and evil. What do you think is happening at the end of Matthew 24?
I see your other replies, but will get back to you tomorrow. There's a part I'm thinking of that confuses me in Scripture as to it tells that the righteous or something like they shall not be removed from the earth. Also, there is not going to be a purification by fire upon the world before the millennium starts. God will only then have recreated - Jerusalem. Isaiah 66:24 is about the new earth and what goes on as to how the wicked will be abhorred. The part about their worm dieth not - links to Mark 9 where Jesus Christ was showing that people from His day will even be in that situation when it comes. This means that the end of Isaiah 66
will include those from the resurrection of the unjust and the goats from when they still alive -were taken away from the sheep. It will include those that at the end of
Matthew 24 were cut asunder./cut in half/scourged
It seems like the ones that miss going to hell first will be beaten for their sins before going to the eternal life?

....today....millennium....end of the world is coming...living divided up....goats...go to everlasting punishment....wicked dead get raised...go to the lake of fire -their worm dieth not - new earth - and others look at the ones that their worm dieth not

Stop and think for a moment. What would be the point of giving differing degrees of punishment if God was just going to eventually give everyone eternal torture in flames for all eternity? To me it does not seem consistent with the way the God of ECT punishes sin. If God gives different degrees of punishment than He is always going to do that. If God was going to punish the wicked for all eternity than no such thing as varying degrees of punishment would exist because we would see a pattern of justice in Scripture that told us that God always is going to torture the wicked in flames for eternity.


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[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then you see the end of Isaiah 66 as being their worm still had not yet died -at the time of the new earth is here and the new moon and sabbath are being kept -as the wicked are still being tormented at the time as temporarily in the lake of fire - but could yet burn up soon into nothing?

I see this event as happening upon the final New Earth and I do not see it as an event taking place during the Millennium. Mark 9:48 is centered around the final judgment. For it says, it is better to enter into life maimed than to have two hands go into hell. Yes, this suggests that the flames of "hell" (i.e. Gehenna, or the Lake of Fire) will at least last long enough to punish a person for their sins (for Jesus stresses the weight of the punishment with the flames of hell and with the worm not dying). However, the result after this Judgment will conclude with what we see in Isaiah 66. Carcases. In my understanding of life, carcases are lifeless husks or remains of those who have once had life but are now dead. However, if you were to say that these carcases were animated or still alive and they talked or screamed, then that would suggest ECT. But we just do see anything like that described here. Isaiah 66 has to be read with Mark 9:48. Mark 9:48 is focused on the final judgment and not the Millennium.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Verses the speak as to the wicked people being destroyed are as to those still living on the earth that had yet to die the first death and end up in hell. They were still -doers of wicked deeds on the face of the earth.
The land of Edom will be called -The border of wickedness -and God will have indignation against the people there forever.
Isaiah 66:24 is an action taking place on the new earth.
The men that transgressed against God are being viewed at times and being -abhorred.
Daniel 12:2 tells that some would rise and has "everlasting contempt". /abhor...same word

People can have everlasting contempt for Hitler because he was a bad guy. But that does not mean Hitler is alive or anything.


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[jesse.roland]

Agreed. Great points. I would add how would it be right for a kind and moral but unbelieving person to suffer eternally in hell fire alongside Hitler?

In reading the OT I don't find in it much belief in an eternal suffering for the wicked. It's all about them being cut off and being remember no more. Some of the imagery Jesus uses in describing the fate of sinners has reference in the OT and it's about their dead bodies being piled up like refuse.

I would also say I believe when the unbeliever is judged and cast into hell there will be a certain level of pain and punishment that may be part of that. Not just eternally. No one gets off "scott free." There will be a price to pay for rejecting God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Hell, actually the Lake of Fire, is eternal punishment; conscious punishment.
The human nature (1Co 2:14) has a hard time accepting the concept at times, especially when they do not accept God's Word on the matter.
Why have people suffer forever? Why not just annihilate them after they are cast into The Lake of Fire? Someone once gave this answer:
"Infraction against infinite righteousness deserves infinite punishment."
Sounds like a good answer. Of course people can still reject it using human reasoning.
What do you think?

I honestly don't ask that question because I believe God is perfect and fair and just.

So I just let God decide. He is the only one who understands all. I trust Him.

He knows the Big Plan and His reasons, not me.

 

[GingerBeer]

Hell, actually the Lake of Fire, is eternal punishment; conscious punishment.

Many people think themselves too tender hearted and too civilised to accept the notion of eternal punishment. So they invent alternatives. Most popular of the alternatives is soul sleep and annihilation in the lake of fire. The reasoning is that God is too kind and far too loving to eternally punish anybody. Maybe even Satan can expect parole after a time. And some even say that God would be cruel to punish forever. Imagine that, a creature judging God.

The holy scriptures say that punishment is everlasting. Jesus says it in the gospel according to Matthew. He says "Then he [the Son of Man] will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:45-46 ESV

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Many people think themselves too tender hearted and too civilised to accept the notion of eternal punishment. So they invent alternatives. Most popular of the alternatives is soul sleep and annihilation in the lake of fire. The reasoning is that God is too kind and far too loving to eternally punish anybody. Maybe even Satan can expect parole after a time. And some even say that God would be cruel to punish forever. Imagine that, a creature judging God.

The holy scriptures say that punishment is everlasting. Jesus says it in the gospel according to Matthew. He says "Then he [the Son of Man] will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:45-46 ESV

I believe God puts tests within His Word to test to see if we follow our heart in what we know to be good and right versus (vs.) just going by what others say God's Word means (because that is what all the popular believing churches say).

For example, if Frank read the Bible and he believed God's Word was telling him to kill himself (based off a false interpretation on Scripture), should he do it? No, he should follow his heart in what he knows to be the right and good thing.

Anyways, what is the eternal (everlasting) punishment? Does it say that it is torture in flames for all time with no chance of getting out? No. That is your imagination saying that. The passage (you quote) does not say that.

Eternal (everlasting) punishment is eternal destruction or everlasting destruction.

See 2 Thessalonians 1:9.

The punishment has eternal or everlasting consequences by destruction.

In addition, the word "forever" and it's synonyms does not always mean forever in eternal sense, either.

But even with a huge assumption on Scripture on the ECT proponents part, the problem is indeed ignoring the moral issue. Jesus was able to illustrate spiritual truth by showing us real world examples (parables). Nowhere in God's Word will you find God asking His people to believe or do something immoral or wrong. God is good. He is not evil.

However, we are in the last days. So it is no surprise people will accept something without checking to see if it is truly moral or good or not.


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[GingerBeer]

Eternal (everlasting) punishment is eternal destruction or everlasting destruction.

Is the statement "Eternal (everlasting) punishment is eternal destruction or everlasting destruction." going by what others say God's Word means? Truly "these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" does not contrast destruction with eternal life it contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life. The task set for Christians is to discover what eternal life means. One clue comes from these words:

"Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire." Matthew 18:7-9
​

Another clue, more direct, is this:

When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." John 17:1-3
​

Eternal life is the reward and it is good eternal punishment is not good to receive as a reward for the evil one does.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is the statement "Eternal (everlasting) punishment is eternal destruction or everlasting destruction." going by what others say God's Word means? Truly "these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" does not contrast destruction with eternal life it contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life. The task set for Christians is to discover what eternal life means. One clue comes from these words:

"Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire." Matthew 18:7-9
​

Another clue, more direct, is this:

When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." John 17:1-3
​

Eternal life is the reward and it is good eternal punishment is not good to receive as a reward for the evil one does.

There is no doubt there is some amount of time of punishment in the Lake of Fire (before one is erased from existence) so as to fulfill justice of how bad their sin harmed others and how it hurts God, but going beyond punishing a person for their crimes even within our own human society (who is morally corrupt) recognizes the inhumane treatment of prisoners or those guilty of horrific crimes. You accept what you do because that is the teaching you have always known. Surely you could not be wrong for so long about something in regards to God's Word. So it is your reality. It is your truth. It is your old friend. ECT.

However, the problem you run into with ECT is in facing the reality that God is good and God is love. You cannot explain how God is loving and good when He punishes people waaay beyond a finite amount of crimes committed here.


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[GingerBeer]

You accept what you do because that is the teaching you have always known.

The passages of holy scripture that I quoted are older than am I. They came many centuries before I was born. Their truth is as true now as it was true when they were written. Tender hearts and human notions of humane treatment are more recent than the teaching of Christ and human notions of humane treatment change and may change again. Good as human notions of humane treatment may seem they cannot be better than God can they? Is God cruel to punish eternally? I am not God's judge, no one is and no one ever shall be. If God says he will punish eternally then his word is true and just and good is it not? That is what must decided. One's religion is ultimately decided by what one is willing to believe and willing to follow. If eternal punishment is beyond the pale even though Jesus taught it then some religion other than the one Jesus taught must be sought. Matthew 25:31-46 teaches a last judgement and eternal life for the righteous as well as eternal punishment for the wicked.