Adam ?

[Ken Rank]

Definitions... that is most of our disagreements and we don't even recognize it. Often, words can mean more than one thing. I submit that God can be perfect (without blemish) and Adam can be perfect (complete) and yet one is clearly dependent on and in submission to, the other.

 

[ZoeyLouLou]

God is the only perfect being in existence, so in answer to your question: Adam was certainly not perfect. Maybe slightly less flawed before sin came into existence, but not perfect.

 

[Sammy-San]

We all deserve hell because., like Adam and Eve we do not obey the Words of the Lord God of the Holy Bible, and reject all that He says. We are ALL sinners and guilty before the Holy God of the Bible. All sin must be punished, either in Jesus Christ, which He did on the cross, and available to all who will truly repent, and turn to Jesus as their Saviour and Lord; or those who reject what the Lord says, will be punished in eternal hell. This is God's Justice and not open to discussion with Him.

I'm talking about without Jesus dying on the cross we would all get hell.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I'm talking about without Jesus dying on the cross we would all get hell.

Who made the rule that sinners fry forever?

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

You won't find the body of Jesus, it returned to the elements and he returned to his rightful place on high.

NO. Jesus body did not return to the elements. Check scripture! Jesus body rose from the grave and walked around for 40 days. When Mary and the rest went to the tomb, their was no body. No dust. Just grave clothes laying on the floor. Doubting Thomas actually touched Jesus body (after resurrection!!) and Jesus assured Thomas, "It is me!"

Then, that raised from the dead body, The Christ Jesus, was taken up into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father.

Maybe your Jesus is dead...My Jesus LIVES. The spirit entered that dead body and raised it to LIFE. That same spirit is promised to come indwell us if we BELIEVE HE LIVES.

 

[Sammy-San]

Who made the rule that sinners fry forever?

Revelation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Did God make Adam imperfect?

Define "perfect".

The, arguably, ancient position we see among the fathers is something along the lines that Adam and Eve were created "imperfect", that is with room to grow and mature. St. Irenaeus in a sense saw the Fall as a kind of adolescent rebellion. Jesus Christ is the mature man into which Adam was to mature to become--that is, in Jesus we see what being human is supposed to be--the Fall did not stop God's purpose, and maturity is found in Christ; and we shall reach the full measure in the resurrection as we become like Him, being glorified on the last day, consider Irenaeus' statement, "He became what we are that we might become what He is."

Though usually "perfect" is meant to indicate a moral perfection, that is without a moral defect; to that end the story says Adam and Eve did not know evil until they fell, they were therefore entirely innocent. So we could say they were "perfect" in that sense.

All creation was perfect in the sense that all creation was created "exceedingly good"; but not in the sense that there was no room for growth, maturity, or potential.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Sammy-San]

Define "perfect".

The, arguably, ancient position we see among the fathers is something along the lines that Adam and Eve were created "imperfect", that is with room to grow and mature. St. Irenaeus in a sense saw the Fall as a kind of adolescent rebellion. Jesus Christ is the mature man into which Adam was to mature to become--that is, in Jesus we see what being human is supposed to be--the Fall did not stop God's purpose, and maturity is found in Christ; and we shall reach the full measure in the resurrection as we become like Him, being glorified on the last day, consider Irenaeus' statement, "He became what we are that we might become what He is."

Though usually "perfect" is meant to indicate a moral perfection, that is without a moral defect; to that end the story says Adam and Eve did not know evil until they fell, they were therefore entirely innocent. So we could say they were "perfect" in that sense.

All creation was perfect in the sense that all creation was created "exceedingly good"; but not in the sense that there was no room for growth, maturity, or potential.

-CryptoLutheran

How could the forbidden fruit be taken without a sin nature? Especially if Eve didn't believe the devil

 

[ViaCrucis]

How could the forbidden fruit be taken without a sin nature? Especially if Eve didn't believe the devil

Excellent question. Or at least it's a very valid point to address how an act of disobedience arises apart from the sinful compulsion, or indeed if it even can.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[miknik5]

You won't find the body of Jesus, it returned to the elements and he returned to his rightful place on high.

Well
That's not exactly what David prophecied

 

[miknik5]

God was quite fond of calling Ezekiel the son of man.

ONE TESTIMONY
THE WITNESSES ppwill testify
And they will testify to only ONE

And it wont be Ezekiel

In fact Ezekiel will also testify

 

[miknik5]

How could the forbidden fruit be taken without a sin nature? Especially if Eve didn't believe the devil

They had no foreknowledge
The only knowledge they had was of good

It was after they listened to the wrong voice that their eyes were opened

Before that they only knew good

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Excellent question. Or at least it's a very valid point to address how an act of disobedience arises apart from the sinful compulsion, or indeed if it even can.

-CryptoLutheran

The first Adam had the spirit within, but did not have The Word...Jesus, the Last Adam...HE had both...and if we receive The Word and obey it by The Spirit...we can become a new creation...a son/daughter of which Jesus was the firstborn...

 

[Steve Petersen]

The first Adam had the spirit within, but did not have The Word...Jesus, the Last Adam...HE had both...and if we receive The Word and obey it by The Spirit...we can become a new creation...a son/daughter of which Jesus was the firstborn...

He didn't have the Word!! God walked with him in the garden!!!

 

[Aseyesee]

Define "perfect".

The, arguably, ancient position we see among the fathers is something along the lines that Adam and Eve were created "imperfect", that is with room to grow and mature. St. Irenaeus in a sense saw the Fall as a kind of adolescent rebellion. Jesus Christ is the mature man into which Adam was to mature to become--that is, in Jesus we see what being human is supposed to be--the Fall did not stop God's purpose, and maturity is found in Christ; and we shall reach the full measure in the resurrection as we become like Him, being glorified on the last day, consider Irenaeus' statement, "He became what we are that we might become what He is."

Though usually "perfect" is meant to indicate a moral perfection, that is without a moral defect; to that end the story says Adam and Eve did not know evil until they fell, they were therefore entirely innocent. So we could say they were "perfect" in that sense.

All creation was perfect in the sense that all creation was created "exceedingly good"; but not in the sense that there was no room for growth, maturity, or potential.

-CryptoLutheran

Certainly wouldn't disagree, but i would add the fall was part of the plan rather than exception to it.

 

[Sammy-San]

They had no foreknowledge of anything but good

It was after they listened to the wrong voice that their eyes were opened

Before that they only knew good

So if eve didn't listen to satan, nobody else would take the forbidden fruit?

Eden: Disturbing Revelations

The bible is very clear. Paul tells us that sin came in by man and death as a result. To suggest that Adam and Eve were rebellious before the fall is to read into scripture something that is not there. There was no rebellion before the fall, period. The interpretation is bizzare.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

He didn't have the Word!! God walked with him in the garden!!!

Yes...externally he had God...but not on his inward parts. What is it that we must receive to make us good on the inward parts...?

 

[miknik5]

The first Adam had the spirit within, but did not have The Word...Jesus, the Last Adam...HE had both...and if we receive The Word and obey it by The Spirit...we can become a new creation...a son/daughter of which Jesus was the firstborn...

GOD breathed into Adam and he became a living soul

Adam was not born of THE SPIRIT

 

[Sammy-San]

GOD breathed into Adam and he became a living soul

Adam was not born of THE SPIRIT

Did they have glorified bodies, or another mystery?

 

[miknik5]

John 20