Christ is the end of the law

[W2L]

According to Isaiah 45:25, all Israel will be saved, so some Jews mistakenly thought that meant that Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes in order to become saved, which meant going through the process of circumcision, and which meant joining the group of people who agreed at Sinai to do everything that Moses said (Exodus 20:19, Deuteronomy 5:22-28). Moses had the authority to make rulings about how the Torah should be obeyed and by the 1st century this authority was passed down to those who sat in Moses' seat (Matthew 23:2-4) and it had become a large body of oral laws, traditions, rulings, and fences, which Jesus referred to as placing a heavy burden on the backs of the people. He certainly was not criticizing the Pharisees for instructing the people to do what God had commanded. So by agreeing to become circumcised, Gentiles were agreeing to become Jews and to live as Jews according to all of the oral laws of the Pharisees and doing this all for the purpose of becoming saved (Acts 15:1). While God did require circumcision as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant, He did not require either Jews or Gentiles to become circumcised or to obey Jewish oral laws in order to become saved, so by rejecting that man-made requirement the Jerusalem Council was upholding God's Law. By referring to the Jewish oral laws as a heavy burden that no one could bear in Acts 15:10, they were simply expressing the same opinion of them that Jesus had expressed.

Can someone consider God's Laws to be so onerous that to be required to obey them is bondage without that reflecting negatively on their opinion of the Lawgiver? In Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and Romans 10:5-10, God said that what He commanded was not too difficult and in 1 John 5:3, it confirms that the commands of God are not burdensome, so if the Jerusalem Council had been referring to God's Law as a heavy burden, then they would have been directly contradicting God, and you would need to make a decision about who to believe. God did not save the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt to put them back under bondage to His Law, but rather as Galatians 5:1 states it is for freedom that God sets us free, and God's Law is a law of liberty (Psalms 119:45, James 1:25), while it is sin in transgression of God's Law that puts us in bondage (1 John 3:4). There are numerous times throughout the Psalms that David delighted in obey God's Law (Psalms 1:1-2), which Paul also did (Romans 7:22), and which God wants His people to do (Isaiah 58:13-14), so God's Law was given to be a delight, and that is the correct response to it by faith, rather than to consider it to be a heavy burden.

Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who zealous for doing good works (Titus 2:14), so living in disobedience to God's Law is the bondage that he gave himself to free us from so that we could be free to become zealous for obeying God's Law, which is profitable for equipping us to do every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Jesus began His ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Law is who we can look up what things are sins that we should be repenting of, so repenting of our disobedience to the Law is an integral part of the Gospel message.

Jesus was sinless, so he set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Law, and we are told follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and to walk in the same way as he walked (1 John 2:3-6). When he was inviting people to follow him, take his yoke upon them, and learn from him, he was inviting us to follow his teachings and his example, so in Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was saying that the way he taught to obey God's Law was light and easy in contrast with how the Pharisees taught to obey it. By saying that we will find rest for our souls, he was reference Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Law is equated as the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

I was told that the word Torah means instructions. I have Gods instructions, given by the apostles. I have Gods Torah, and i dont follow Moses. I follow the Lords apostles. I have the Word brother.

 

[Soyeong]

I was told that the word Torah means instructions. I have Gods instructions, given by the apostles. I have Gods Torah, and i dont follow Moses. I follow the Lords apostles. I have the Word brother.

While "Torah" usually refers to the five books of Moses or to the OT, it is correct that "Torah" means "instruction", which can include the NT. However, in Deuteronomy 13:4-5, God instructed His people that anyone who leads us away from obeying what God had commanded is a false prophet who is not speaking for God, even if they perform signs and wonders. So if you believe that the Apostles taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, then you are instructed by God to reject them as false prophets. The Jerusalem did not have more authority than God and they had no authority to countermand any of His commands, so they had no authority to tell Gentiles not to obey any of them, and if you think that they had tried to do so, then you should obey God instead. However, the Apostles never spoke against anyone obeying any of God's commands, but rather they continue to be Torah observant and to teach obedience to God's Law, so there is no need for you to reject them.

In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so if you believe that Paul taught against obeying God, then you understand him differently than the people who walked and talked with him. The NT authors quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in or to show that it supported what they said and that they didn't deviate from it. According to 2 Peter 3:15-17, Paul is difficult to understand, but those who are ignorant and unstable twist his words to their own destruction and fall into error of Lawlessness, so this is saying that if you interpret Paul as teaching against obeying God's Law, then you have misunderstood him.

The Mosaic Law is the way (Exodus 18:20, Deuteronomy 5:33, Deuteronomy 8:6, Deuteronomy 26:16-17, Deuteronomy 28:9, Isaiah 2:3, Jeremiah 6:16-19, Psalms 119:1, Matthew 3:3, Matthew 22:16), the truth (Psalms 119:142, Psalms 119:151, John 17:17), and the life (Proverbs 13:14, Matthew 19:17, Deuteronomy 30:15-20), Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6), the Mosaic Law is God's Word, and Messiah is God's Word made flesh, so trying to separate following one from following the other will leave you with only half the truth.

 

[W2L]

God instructed His people that anyone who leads us away from obeying what God had commanded is a false prophet who is not speaking for God, even if they perform signs and wonders. So if you believe that the Apostles taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, then you are instructed by God to reject them as false prophets.

Acts 15. We were not given the law of Moses. We were given the law of Christ, by His apostles. Jesus commissioned them to teach gentiles. To say i'm without the law of God in Christ is wrong. I follow the apostle Paul, and the words of Christ. It is written, they shall all be taught by God. To me that's what a Christian is. To me, that's the Word.

I would recommend Romans 14, Acts 15, and Galatians 5-6.

 

[Soyeong]

Acts 15. We were not given the law of Moses. We were given the law of Christ, by His apostles. Jesus commissioned them to teach gentiles. To say i'm without the law of God in Christ is wrong. I follow the apostle Paul, and the words of Christ. It is written, they shall all be taught by God. To me that's what a Christian is. To me, that's the Word.

I would recommend Romans 14, Acts 15, and Galatians 5-6.

If you ask me a question and I take the time to reply, I would prefer it if you would interact with what I said, evaluate it to see if it had any merit, tell me what you agree with, tell me what you disagree, and tell me why you disagree with it, but I would appreciate it if you would at least read it. I have studies those chapters, which why I changed my view from one that was likely similar to yours to the one that I currently hold and I just wrote an in-depth response to you about the background of Galatians and Acts 15 and how they should be correctly understood, but you ignored what I wrote and recommended chapters that I just talked about?

If you can't show me where the Law of Moses requires all Gentiles to become circumcised or even where it required Jews to become circumcised for the expressed purpose of becoming saved, then please grant that what was being discussed in Acts 15:1 was not whether Gentiles should be required to obey the Law of Moses.

If you believe that Jesus practiced sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, that he practiced what he preached, and preached what he practiced, then you should believe that he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law both by word and by example, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). So I do not see any reason to think that the Law of Christ is anything other than the Law of Moses as he taught and lived it out. Paul told us to imitate him for he imitated Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1), so Paul follow Christ's example of obedience to the Law and if you are a follower of Paul, then you will too. According to Acts 21:24, Paul continued to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law. You have the teachings of God for how to walk in His ways written down and available to you through the Mosaic Law, yet you ignore it.

The topic of Romans 14 is stated in the first verse, namely it was in regard to how to handle disputes of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow God's commands. So they might dispute whether a certain action counted as idolatry, but they were not disputing whether to obey God's command against idolatry. Paul was not saying that it was ok to commit murder, adultery, theft, or to disobey any of God other commands just so long as you were convinced in your own mind that it was ok, and if he had tried to tell us that are free to disobey God's commands, then we should obey God instead of him because he didn't have more authority than God.

 

[W2L]

If you ask me a question and I take the time to reply, I would prefer it if you would interact with what I said, evaluate it to see if it had any merit, tell me what you agree with, tell me what you disagree, and tell me why you disagree with it, but I would appreciate it if you would at least read it. I have studies those chapters, which why I changed my view from one that was likely similar to yours to the one that I currently hold and I just wrote an in-depth response to you about the background of Galatians and Acts 15 and how they should be correctly understood, but you ignored what I wrote and recommended chapters that I just talked about?

If you can't show me where the Law of Moses requires all Gentiles to become circumcised or even where it required Jews to become circumcised for the expressed purpose of becoming saved, then please grant that what was being discussed in Acts 15:1 was not whether Gentiles should be required to obey the Law of Moses.

If you believe that Jesus practiced sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, that he practiced what he preached, and preached what he practiced, then you should believe that he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law both by word and by example, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). So I do not see any reason to think that the Law of Christ is anything other than the Law of Moses as he taught and lived it out. Paul told us to imitate him for he imitated Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1), so Paul follow Christ's example of obedience to the Law and if you are a follower of Paul, then you will too. According to Acts 21:24, Paul continued to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law. You have the teachings of God for how to walk in His ways written down and available to you through the Mosaic Law, yet you ignore it.

The topic of Romans 14 is stated in the first verse, namely it was in regard to how to handle disputes of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow God's commands. So they might dispute whether a certain action counted as idolatry, but they were not disputing whether to obey God's command against idolatry. Paul was not saying that it was ok to commit murder, adultery, theft, or to disobey any of God other commands just so long as you were convinced in your own mind that it was ok, and if he had tried to tell us that are free to disobey God's commands, then we should obey God instead of him because he didn't have more authority than God.

You didn't mention those scriptures in the post i replied to.

 

[Shimshon]

Truly ... it was not Moses who gave ...the bread from heaven

The bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died.

John 6

 

[Shimshon]

The Torah of Yeshua (My sayings 'John 12:7) is not the same as the Torah of Moses. (John 6:43-58)

John 6
29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the work of God is to believe in his words, in the Messiah's Torah. So they rightly ask, what about Moses?? Does what Yeshua do and say equal what Moses said and did? Yeshua said his Torah was 'the true' Torah to be eaten and drank.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the will of the father is for everyone to look on the Son and believe in him. All who do will be forgiven and redeemed, forever. No mention of observances to the Torah of Moses.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that he himself came down from heaven to do the will of God. Which was and is to look upon and believe in Messiah Yeshua for the forgiveness of our sins and the redemption of our souls. His work is what we have faith in. His work is what redeems us fully.

43Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.45It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—46not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.47Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

48I am the bread of life.49Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.50This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.54Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.56Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.57As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

58This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that God is teaching everyone to come to Yeshua for eternal life. The bread we eat is not like the bread our fathers ate. What came down from heaven for them sustained them for a time, but still allowed them to die. What comes down from heaven for us now, if eaten will sustain us forever. Many seem to want to suppose that Yeshua was leading all back to the fathers bread, as if he is testifying and witnessing the Torah of Moses. But it's the other way around, Yeshua is testified and witnessed by the Torah given Moses. Messiah does not compare his food (Torah) with Moses' as 'the true' food if the bread the fathers ate was to be fed to us for life.

My words.....the true food.....not like the food Moses fed..... So, it seems scripture proves Messiah identifies a separation between the bread from heaven which is Messiah, the Word made flesh from the bread given Moses. One is called 'true food' while the bread (Word) given Moses was not.

John 6:32 “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.

The Word of God spoken through Messiah states 'it was not Moses' that is 'the true bread from heaven'. Yeshua contrasted (separated) what was given Israel through Moses with what was given Israel through Messiah Yeshua.

Is it any wonder then why Christians do not want to eat of the bread given through Moses? And that attempting to equate or conflate the two would be flat out rejected by Christians according to scripture and the very Words of Messiah himself?

 

[Soyeong]

You didn't mention those scriptures in the post i replied to.

So by agreeing to become circumcised, Gentiles were agreeing to become Jews and to live as Jews according to all of the oral laws of the Pharisees and doing this all for the purpose of becoming saved (Acts 15:1).

God did not save the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt to put them back under bondage to His Law, but rather as Galatians 5:1 states it is for freedom that God sets us free, and God's Law is a law of liberty (Psalms 119:45, James 1:25), while it is sin in transgression of God's Law that puts us in bondage (1 John 3:4).

 

[W2L]

Can you post the links too? You only posted the one link.

 

[W2L]

.

Can you post the links too? You only posted the one link.

 

[Soyeong]

Can you post the links too? You only posted the one link.

Christ is the end of the law

 

[W2L]

Christ is the end of the law

Yes, it seems you mentioned acts 15 but not Romans 14 or Galatians 5-6.

 

[bloodygrace]

Is this verse wrong?

Psalms 119:165 Great peace have those who love your law; nothing can make them stumble.

There are many instances throughout the Psalms where David delighted in God's Law (Psalms 1:1-2, Psalms 37:23, Psalms 40:8, Psalms 112:1, Psalms 119:16, Psalms 119:35, Psalms 119:70, Psalms 119:77, Psalms 119:143, Psalms 119:174). Paul also delighted in obeying God's Law, so he was on the same page as David (Romans 7:22). God also wants His people to delight in His commands (Isaiah 11:3, Isaiah 58:2, Isaiah 58:13-14), so God's Law was given to be a delight, and delighting in obeying God's Law is the correct response to it. God's are not arbitrary, but rather they reveal the character of God and instruct us how to live in accordance with His character (Exodus 34:6-7). For example, in Leviticus 11:44-45, God was giving instructions for how to be holy for He is holy, so following those Laws is about living according to the holiness of our God, following God's laws for how to do what is righteous is living according to the righteousness of our God, and so forth. Jesus said that the weightier matters of the Law are justice, mercy, and faith, so the obedience to the Law is about teachings how to reflect those characteristics of God to the world.



Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey His commands, that faith was one of the weightier matters of the Law, and that we should repent of our sins, and God gracious by teaching us to obey His Law (Psalms 119:29), so you can't have faith, love, grace, or the Gospel without obedience.

God's law is written in the heart for believers and obedience is automatic.

God's old and temporary law is written on stone and increases sin. The harder you keep the Torah the more of a sinner you become. It's a booby trap!

 

[Soyeong]

The Torah of Yeshua (My sayings 'John 12:7) is not the same as the Torah of Moses. (John 6:43-58)

John 6
29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the work of God is to believe in his words, in the Messiah's Torah. So they rightly ask, what about Moses?? Does what Yeshua do and say equal what Moses said and did? Yeshua said his Torah was 'the true' Torah to be eaten and drank.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the will of the father is for everyone to look on the Son and believe in him. All who do will be forgiven and redeemed, forever. No mention of observances to the Torah of Moses.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that he himself came down from heaven to do the will of God. Which was and is to look upon and believe in Messiah Yeshua for the forgiveness of our sins and the redemption of our souls. His work is what we have faith in. His work is what redeems us fully.

43Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.45It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—46not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.47Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

48I am the bread of life.49Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.50This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.54Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.56Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.57As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

58This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that God is teaching everyone to come to Yeshua for eternal life. The bread we eat is not like the bread our fathers ate. What came down from heaven for them sustained them for a time, but still allowed them to die. What comes down from heaven for us now, if eaten will sustain us forever. Many seem to want to suppose that Yeshua was leading all back to the fathers bread, as if he is testifying and witnessing the Torah of Moses. But it's the other way around, Yeshua is testified and witnessed by the Torah given Moses. Messiah does not compare his food (Torah) with Moses' as 'the true' food if the bread the fathers ate was to be fed to us for life.

My words.....the true food.....not like the food Moses fed..... So, it seems scripture proves Messiah identifies a separation between the bread from heaven which is Messiah, the Word made flesh from the bread given Moses. One is called 'true food' while the bread (Word) given Moses was not.

John 6:32 “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.

The Word of God spoken through Messiah states 'it was not Moses' that is 'the true bread from heaven'. Yeshua contrasted (separated) what was given Israel through Moses with what was given Israel through Messiah Yeshua.

Is it any wonder then why Christians do not want to eat of the bread given through Moses? And that attempting to equate or conflate the two would be flat out rejected by Christians according to scripture and the very Words of Messiah himself?

Yeshua was born under the law, and according to Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from what God had commanded, so if you think that Torah of Yeshua is any different than the Torah of Moses, then you should think that he sinned and could not be your Savior. However, Yeshua was sinless, so he set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6).

Yeshua was not in disagreement with the Father about what conduct we should have, but rather he said that he did not come down to do his own will, but the will of the Father (John 6:38), he said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the father (John 7:16), and that whoever does not love him does not keep his words and the word that you hear was not his, but the Father's who sent him, so he taught obedience only to the Mosaic Law by word and by example and did not depart from it.

According to John 5:39, Yeshua said that Scriptures testify of him, according to John 5:46, Yeshua said that Moses wrote about him, according to Luke 24:27, Yeshua began with Moses and the Prophets interpreting to them in all of Scripture the things concerning himself, according to Hebrews 10:7, the totality of the scroll is written about Yeshua, and according to Romans 10:4, a relationship with Yeshua is the goal of the Law for righteousness for all who believe. So the Law itself is not the bread of life, but rather it instruct us about the one who is the bread of Life and how to have a relationship with him based on faith and love.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the work of God is to believe in his words, in the Messiah's Torah. So they rightly ask, what about Moses?? Does what Yeshua do and say equal what Moses said and did? Yeshua said his Torah was 'the true' Torah to be eaten and drank.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the will of the father is for everyone to look on the Son and believe in him. All who do will be forgiven and redeemed, forever. No mention of observances to the Torah of Moses.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that he himself came down from heaven to do the will of God. Which was and is to look upon and believe in Messiah Yeshua for the forgiveness of our sins and the redemption of our souls. His work is what we have faith in. His work is what redeems us fully.

Yeshua began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was given to reveal what sin is (Romans 3:20), without it we wouldn't even know what sin is (Roman 7:7), and sin is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4), so the Mosaic Law is what the people he was speaking to and what we can look up to find out what our sins are that we should be repenting. This means that repentance from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is an integral part of the Gospel message.

When you correctly understand what it means to believe in Yeshua, then you will see that it involves obedience to the Mosaic Law. We can't believe that Yeshua is Lord without submitting to him as Lord, and Romans 10:5-10 quotes Deuteronomy 30:11-14 in regard to what it means to submit to him as Lord. We can't believe that Yeshua gave himself to redeem us from all Lawless and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works without repenting from our Lawlessness and turning to obedience to God's Law for how to do good works. We can't believe in Yeshua to guide us in how we should rightly live without following his teachings and his example for how we should do that.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, it seems you mentioned acts 15 but not Romans 14 or Galatians 5-6.

The same issue that was being discussed in Acts 15:1 was the same issue in Galatians. Jews were wanting to require Gentiles to become Jewish proselytes and to live as Jews according to their oral laws, traditions, rulings, and fences in order to become saved. This is not a requirement found anywhere in God's Law, though God did require circumcision for a different purpose, so by rejecting this man-made requirement, they were upholding God's Law. If they were trying to become justified through becoming Jews and obeying their laws, then they would be falling from grace because their faith would be in man rather than in Jesus.

However, in Psalms 119:29, David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him His Law. In Titus 2:11-14, it says that our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to reject doing what is ungodly and sinful, which essentially what God's Law was given to do. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace into a licence to sin, which is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4). According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to God's commands. So it is important to understand that God's grace is not opposed to His Law, as if a house divided against itself could stand, but rather God's grace is what trains us through faith to live according to His Law, while what God's grace is opposed to is faith in man-made laws.

I talked about Romans 14 is post #124:

Christ is the end of the law

 

[Soyeong]

God's law is written in the heart for believers and obedience is automatic.

God's old and temporary law is written on stone and increases sin. The harder you keep the Torah the more of a sinner you become. It's a booby trap!

You must have an extremely low opinion of God to think that He gave to law in order to trap His people. God said that His Law was for His people's own good, so I have faith in what He said and live accordingly. It is the law of sin that Paul described as increasing sin in contrast with God's Law. Perhaps you can explain to me someone who practices repentance and obedience to God by faith is guilty of greater transgression of the Law than someone who doesn't even try to obey God or practice repentance? All throughout the Bible God wanted His people to repent and turn back to obedience to him by faith, so it absurd for you to say that God was doing that in order to trap them.

 

[W2L]

The same issue that was being discussed in Acts 15:1 was the same issue in Galatians. Jews were wanting to require Gentiles to become Jewish proselytes and to live as Jews according to their oral laws, traditions, rulings, and fences in order to become saved. This is not a requirement found anywhere in God's Law, though God did require circumcision for a different purpose, so by rejecting this man-made requirement, they were upholding God's Law. If they were trying to become justified through becoming Jews and obeying their laws, then they would be falling from grace because their faith would be in man rather than in Jesus.

However, in Psalms 119:29, David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him His Law. In Titus 2:11-14, it says that our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to reject doing what is ungodly and sinful, which essentially what God's Law was given to do. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace into a licence to sin, which is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4). According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to God's commands. So it is important to understand that God's grace is not opposed to His Law, as if a house divided against itself could stand, but rather God's grace is what trains us through faith to live according to His Law, while what God's grace is opposed to is faith in man-made laws.

I talked about Romans 14 is post #124:

Christ is the end of the law

You are OT Torah, and i'm NT Torah.

 

[bloodygrace]

You must have an extremely low opinion of God to think that He gave to law in order to trap His people. God said that His Law was for His people's own good, so I have faith in what He said and live accordingly. It is the law of sin that Paul described as increasing sin in contrast with God's Law. Perhaps you can explain to me someone who practices repentance and obedience to God by faith is guilty of greater transgression of the Law than someone who doesn't even try to obey God or practice repentance? All throughout the Bible God wanted His people to repent and turn back to obedience to him by faith, so it absurd for you to say that God was doing that in order to trap them.

The Torah trapped you and you're probably not even Jewish!! Don't go back there it's a venus fly trap and you're the fly.

 

[Soyeong]

You are OT Torah, and i'm NT Torah.

I have tried to explain that there is no difference, so again please interact with my points.

 

[Soyeong]

The Torah trapped you and you're probably not even Jewish!! Don't go back there it's a venus fly trap and you're the fly.

So you say, but you have no Scripture to back it up, whereas I do.