Difference in belief

[Waggles]

We also believe in infilling of the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues, which I received at age 14.

Hello. Greetings, or rather good day, from Australia.
I received the Spirit and spoke in tongues way back in 1966 as an 11 year old.
Didn't know what it was at that time, but I had a God consciousness all through my later life.
Eventually, 30 years later in 1996, Jesus kicked my butt into the Revival Fellowship where I was
water baptized by full immersion and also burst out in tongues again.

Wonderful. Transforming. Miracles. Healings. Blessings. Great prayer life. Read the Word with insight
and understanding. Lay hands on others. Preaching and witnessing. Overcoming.

Yes our Fellowship is despised by mainstream for being fundamentalist, actually believing the Word of God is true, and one must comply with the original gospel and salvation once delivered to the saints.
Also we operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit as our formal meetings > tongues, interpretation, and
prophecy. All done decently and in order.

 

[Evangelist Paul Dodson]

Does this apply to the people are say some parts of the bible were done away with? Some say that they dont have to follow some of the commands in the OT because it was done away with. Do you believe this? or do you feel that the whole bible should be taken literally (as opposed to being spiritually discerned)

I feel the whole bible should be taken literal except where the context clearly identifies differently. The Bible will clearly let us know when these times come up by using phrases such as, "like unto" or "as it were", or similar phrases.

In regards to parts of the bible being done away with, i'll let God answer that..... Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus Himself said in Mat_5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

All the laws of the O.T. are still in effect today... But, you have to take the whole Bible in context to rightly divide what God is saying. The O.T. law was given to show us our need of a Saviour.

Jesus also said in Luk_16:16, "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

You see, when Jesus came, He ushered in the period of time that we live in now which is the age of grace.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The law killed... that is all the law can do

Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I could give you a ton more verses to back up and support what i am saying but I think you get my point.

The whole bible is to be taken literally, but also interpreted in light of the whole bible. The bible is it's own commentary. Sadly, people start trying to cut it apart, spiritualize it, and interpret it with their own understanding. Just like this matter of the law.

Jesus concluded this whole matter regarding the law in these verses when ask which was the greatest commandment...

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I hope this helped

Evangelist Paul Dodson
www.theclearword.org

 

[Kit Sigmon]

My advice is that you don't go any further...Call your minister/ preacher asap
and discuss with him all that you've shared on this forum.

 

[now faith]

Hi Guys, I need some advice.

I am a Christian and I have seen some people differ in their belief as to exactly what Christians believe. My belief is that your salvation/ever lasting life is obtained through your faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. That you are saved by faith and faith alone.

Now my problem is that I am in a relationship with a woman for a year and a half. She is Old Apostolic, the religion basically originated in South Africa.

They use the Bible, but they interpret it spiritually. They also go to church 6 days a week including twice on Sunday's. They are very faithful and their religion is held very high.

They also believe that you basically work through faith for your salvation and that is a fundamental difference. The other big difference is that they believe that Jesus was only an example that God sent us to show how to live, he had the gift of Christ in him and we must all strive to live like he did. When Jesus died he rose in the mind of people, so that Christ gift rose and not the physical body of Christ. So that being said they do not believe that Jesus will come again because he already came. They also believe that the Church is the body of Christ and thus when they refer to Jesus/the Son then they refer to the Church.

Before I met her I was single for a long time and asked Jesus to send me a faithful girl to spend my life with. I received exactly what i asked for, well exempt that her belief differs from mine.

I am not sure why it turned out like this and what to do. Why did God put me in this situation?

I have to basically change to their religion if i ever want to marry her btw.

Also they believe in Visions and Dreams and that is the way God speaks to us, the scary thing is that some of the dreams they spoke about actually happens exactly how it was seen. This is the only thing that makes me confused, because why will they get visions and dreams that is exactly to the point of how it was given. God warns them through visions and dreams, it actually makes one think.

It is good for you to seek advice,but it is Better if you immerse yourself in God's Word.
You do not need any man teach you,only let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth.
Pray for Wisdom:
James: 1. 5. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

If her ways are corrupted then in order for peace in marriage she must be born again,and renounce her religion.
Notice I said if she is corrupt I personally do not know.
You must test the spirits who guide this group,you test by knowing if what they teach is in the Word of God,because God's Word is of no private interpretation.
Once you have studied and asked God for answers accept the out come.
It may be wonderful or it may be sorrowful :
Proverbs: 12. 1. Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish. 2. A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD: but a man of wicked devices will he condemn. 3. A man shall not be established by wickedness: but the root of the righteous shall not be moved. 4. A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. 5. The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit.
Ecclesiastes: 1. 18. For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.


Your statement of being saved by faith I believe was a simple misinterpretation, I hope you understand that it is not by faith alone we are saved but God's Grace given we have faith in his atonement not of ourselves.

Ephesians: 2. 4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[now faith]

I feel the whole bible should be taken literal except where the context clearly identifies differently. The Bible will clearly let us know when these times come up by using phrases such as, "like unto" or "as it were", or similar phrases.

In regards to parts of the bible being done away with, i'll let God answer that..... Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus Himself said in Mat_5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

All the laws of the O.T. are still in effect today... But, you have to take the whole Bible in context to rightly divide what God is saying. The O.T. law was given to show us our need of a Saviour.

Jesus also said in Luk_16:16, "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

You see, when Jesus came, He ushered in the period of time that we live in now which is the age of grace.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The law killed... that is all the law can do

Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I could give you a ton more verses to back up and support what i am saying but I think you get my point.

The whole bible is to be taken literally, but also interpreted in light of the whole bible. The bible is it's own commentary. Sadly, people start trying to cut it apart, spiritualize it, and interpret it with their own understanding. Just like this matter of the law.

Jesus concluded this whole matter regarding the law in these verses when ask which was the greatest commandment...

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I hope this helped

Evangelist Paul Dodson
www.theclearword.org

I like your statement that all of the Old Testament is in effect today.
So many forget that God has not changed,he fulfilled his covenant through Christ Jesus that the law of sin and death be cleansed by the blood of the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the World.

Galatians: 3. 22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[shinoobi]

Do you love her?

Yes

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello,

Just wanted to know your idea on these scriptures:

Luke 16:19-31

I believe in "Dualistic Conditional Immortality."

I believe "hell" is a very real and literal place; But the wicked will perish (i.e. be erased from existence) in the Lake of Fire (After the Judgment).

As for "hell": Well, I just do not believe there is any Scripture saying that the wicked will burn down there for thousands of years. Yes, the story of Lazarus and the Rich-man appears to suggest he was in the flame, but he also could have been referring to the heat of the flame in front of him (either nearby or in the great gulf between him and Abraham). In other words, when the rich-man said "I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:24) it would sort of be like if I said "I am tormented in this soldier." (referring to the flatulence from the soldier in front of me). For the first appearance of the English word "this" is used by Adam to refer to Eve who was in front of him (Genesis 2:23). Granted, I am not discounting the idea that the rich-man was burning in the actual flame itself, but I do not believe he was burning down there for thousands of years consciously being aware of that fact because God is fair and just in His Judgments.

47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
(Luke 12:47-48).

Sir Arhur Conan Doyle once said,
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Side Note:

Also, if the Rich-man really was engulfed in flames, then how was he able to carry on a normal conversation with Abraham? For today, if a man was tied to a log and then lowered into a roaring camp fire, he would be too busy screaming over his pain so as to carry on a normal conversation with anyone. For if the Rich-man was able to hear Abraham over his own screams of pain, he would be asking Abraham for tons of buckets of water and not a few drops to cool his tongue.

Matthew 25:46 Greek word for everlasting aiōnios "without end, never to cease, everlasting". Same goes for eternal. Same Greek word here. Same Greek word describes both eternal life and eternal punishment.

aiōnios is also the same word used to describe God's glory here 1 Peter 5:10. "eternal glory".

Jude also uses that very same Greek word in verses 7 and 21. aiōnios.

Well, I do not disagree with the word "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. The difference on our understanding of this verse is that the punishment has "eternal consequences" where the soul and spirit body are eventually destroyed or put to ruin. For it is everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) --- Not everlasting punishing.

The parable of the rich man (Luke 16), just adds further an idea of what happens. The rich man seemed very conscious to me.

Yes, I believe the story was literal and that the Rich-man was very conscious of what was happening to him. But this is not a full record of his entire life in hell for thousands of years. We are only seeing a glimpse of one moment in the Rich-man's experience in hell. This is not a daily diary. I believe in light of God being a good and fair judge: The wicked in hell will go thru long periods of sleep (or unconsciousness) while also having moments of being awake (i.e. consciousness).

Luke 12:4-5 (why would anyone fear hell if they will be 'annihilated' or not conscious? Who would care of the consequences?)

Just some food for thought.

Jesus said, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28). While I am not claiming to be an expert on Greek, scholars have said that the word "hell" here is taken from the Greek word "geenna" which is a reference to the Lake of Fire.

If that is the case, the point here is that Jesus can destroy both body AND THE SOUL (of a person) in the Lake of Fire. For Jesus destroying the soul and body is related to man destroying or killing the physical body here on this Earth. Are you saying that men do not fear physical death? Jesus is telling us not to fear the one who can destroy our physical body because if we trust in Him, we will never techincally die (i.e. Face the second death, i.e. the Lake of Fire); but we will have everlasting LIFE. In fact, the Lake of Fire is called the "Second Death" because it relates to the "First Death."

Anyways, Jesus is saying we should really fear Him because He has the true power of ending life or not. For if a believer's body dies, they will one day be resurrected and live with Jesus on the Eternal New Earth.

In any event, if you desire to talk further on this matter, it is probably best we move the conversation to another more appropriate thread. If so, please create a thread and provide to me a link and I will consider in replying, my friend.

May God bless you.
And please be well.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes

This makes it all the more harder.
I feel for you, my friend.
I will be praying for the Lord to help you to make the right decision (By letting her go if she does not accept the truth of God's Word).

Anyways, peace and blessings be unto you.


....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Old Apostolic Church has its roots from branching off of Catholicism. They dabble in Pentecostal, Protestant, among a couple other type beliefs pending on the region of the world they are in. You can go to several different ones on their websites and find 'about us' for their beliefs. Match that with what the bible says and voila, you got your answer.

A couple side notes from reading a dozen or so posts:

1) I saw too many people saying 'drop this girl'. But what does the bible say?
1 Corinthians 7:12-14. If it doesnt work out look at the following verses 15 and so on. I'm not going to say it will be easy, but I seen first hand that you can successfully be married to a non believer and have a very happy marriage. So the 'drop this girl' comments you can ignore.

2) I saw a mentioning of "faith only" that you believe and you are saved. I do not recall or read that you got a response refuting that. This is a false doctrine.

John 3:16--One of the most abused verses in the bible. Notice how it says "SHOULD not perish, but...". That means there are conditions. Just look at the definition of 'should'.

What are the conditions?
1. Hear the word – Romans 10:17, Matthew 7:24-27

2. Believe the word is true and believe in Jesus – Hebrews 11:6, Mark 16:15-16 (not faith only), James 2:24, John 12:42

3. Repent of your sins and transgressions – Acts 2:38, Acts 17:30-31, Luke 13:3

4. Confess Jesus is Lord and Lord of your life – Matthew 10:32-33, Acts 8:36-37

5. Baptism for the repentance, forgiveness of your sins -

• Purpose: Acts 2:38, Mark 16:15-16, Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts 10:48, John 3:5, Luke 7:30. Read 2 Corinthians 5:17 with Galatians 3:27.
• Action: Romans 6:3-5, Acts 8:36-38, Mark 1:9-10, John 3:23
• Infants need not to be baptized - Matthew 18:3, Mark 10:13-15, Ezekiel 18:20, Romans 14:12.

6. Remain faithful until death – Revelation 2:10

Just 'faith only' will get you nowhere fast. Read James 2:14 to the end of the chapter.

Lots of people recite Ephesians 2:8-9 however they lack the understanding of what is said here. It means you can't work or earn the "UNMERITED" "GRACE", but you do have to obey the gospel. What is obeying the gospel? One such 'work' would be spreading God's word right? Thats a work that you must obey. You can't just sit on your toosh letting time pass by til you die. You need to get out there and use your talents. Remember the talents parable given to those three servants? Yea, you got to use them.

Belief is even a work. Don't 'believe' me see John 6:29.

"faith only" = false doctrine. Stay away from that. James 2:18-20.

In regards to a Christian and an unbeliever being married: Well, I believe Paul was talking to couples that are already married not to divorce. Paul was certainly not telling Christians to marry unbelievers in 1 Corinthians 7 (unless you think he did say that). For Paul says elsewhere, in 2 Corinthians 6:14 not to be unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For it is one thing to be already yoked together (previously from one's old life), but it is another matter to seek out unions that are not of the body of Christ after being born again.

For there is a difference in:

"Dealing with the cards you are dealt with (in love)"

vs.

"Water seeking it's own level."


...

 

[Evangelist Paul Dodson]

AMEN

 

[Acts2:38]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I also appreciate your kind response.

Also, if the Rich-man really was engulfed in flames, then how was he able to carry on a normal conversation with Abraham? For today, if a man was tied to a log and then lowered into a roaring camp fire, he would be too busy screaming over his pain so as to carry on a normal conversation with anyone. For if the Rich-man was able to hear Abraham over his own screams of pain, he would be asking Abraham for tons of buckets of water and not a few drops to cool his tongue.

This story spoken of is a parable. Many such parables are used to help our 'human minds' understand close enough to just how bad or good things can be. Just like we say 'for example'. A Parable is an illustrated story that is cast alongside truth.

So to help anyone understand what that is let us use another parable with Luke 16's Rich man story in consideration.

Matthew 25:14-30 The talents story. If one understands this story, then they know that being a christian isn't just sitting around being a pew warmer and doing nothing else. For if they do not use their 'talents', they will be considered "wicked and slothful" and cast into "outer darkness" were there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

So if the talents story illustrates for us, the truth that a lazy servant of God will be cast away into hell, then it is only fair to surmise that the story of the rich man holds up as true that one would be conscious and suffering aka "weeping and gnashing". Do you sleep/stay unconscious and have weeping and gnashing?

Well, I do not disagree with the word "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. The difference on our understanding of this verse is that the punishment has "eternal consequences" where the soul and spirit body are eventually destroyed or put to ruin. For it is everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) --- Not everlasting punishing.

I fail to see the sense in that which you said:

"For it is everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) --- Not everlasting punishing."

So let me post the Greek of eternal/everlasting again:

aiōnios "without end, never to cease, everlasting"

Now here is the Greek for punishment:

kolasis "correction, punishment, penalty"

I will now put these definitions together:

without end, never to cease, everlasting///correction, punishment, penalty

However, at the same time I wish for you to examine that very same word that is used for "life eternal". It is the same Greek word for everlasting.

With that word explaining both propositions of righteous life and wicked's punishment, it is only fair to say both are forever and ever. It is also fair to say that they both will be conscious.

You will have to provide scriptural evidence that one would not be aware of themselves being in hell since you already, in a way, admitted that one wouldn't be simply annihilated, but in a sleep. It is time to give scripture and not thought on where it says they are sleeping while in hell.

But this is not a full record of his entire life in hell for thousands of years. We are only seeing a glimpse of one moment in the Rich-man's experience in hell. This is not a daily diary. I believe in light of God being a good and fair judge: The wicked in hell will go thru long periods of sleep (or unconsciousness) while also having moments of being awake (i.e. consciousness).

Neither is it a record that one is sleeping. You must have some sort of evidence via scripture to back why you believe this. The story of the 'Rich Man' was a parable used to illustrate to us a lesson. It would be fair to surmise more in the fact that one is awake than sleeping. God is a fair judge and people have their entire lives to get right with Him.

Isaiah 55:8-9. Who are we to question how He is to punish the wicked or save the righteous?

In other words, when the rich-man said "I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:24) it would sort of be like if I said "I am tormented in this soldier." (referring to the flatulence from the soldier in front of me).

If someone were to use that statement of the soldier you made, I would tell them to correct there grammar. In other words, the sentence structure would be more like this "I am tormented BY this soldier." and not 'in'. Therefore your analogy is lost on me since the two sentence structures do not even compare.

The rich man WAS in the flame but you are not IN the soldier. I hope I am explaining this okay.

However you start to lose me again with, to me, back stepping:

For the first appearance of the English word "this" is used by Adam to refer to Eve who was in front of him (Genesis 2:23). Granted, I am not discounting the idea that the rich-man was burning in the actual flame itself, but I do not believe he was burning down there for thousands of years consciously being aware of that fact because God is fair and just in His Judgments.

After you said the rich man was not in the flame you then say toward the end that you don't doubt he is. I am confused by your contradictory statement and I apologize. Maybe I missed something.

Also, let us get the context of the Gen. 2:23 you mentioned.

" And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Now when you read this in context with the other words surrounding "this" you are now painted with a different picture. Adam is referring to something that is for sure, but Adam is not saying she is inside him nor is Adam saying he is inside her.

Now look at this sentence structure:

"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

In context, with the words around "this", you can only and logically come to the conclusion that this man IS indeed inside of the flames. He is "in" the flame.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition, let us look at the context to support that one is not merely unconscious/sleeping in Luke 16.

If a parable is an illustration that holds truth, then let us observe v 25

"But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

Would it not be fair to surmise that this is "everlasting"?

Would it also not be fair to assume by this context one is truly awake?

Again look at this verses 23, 24, and 30. The rich man is IN torment. He is awake. He is begging and pleading for mercy. Because the rich man was told that he will get no mercy, he then begs for his five brothers. Nowhere does this "illustrated story" that holds truth, indicate one is unconscious/sleeping or even ever was. In fact, by the context of v 25, it would actually support a life time of suffering.

To support Luke 16's rich man being awake see Luke 13 as well.

Luke 13:28

Weeping and gnashing = not possible unless you are conscious

Seeing Abraham = Not possible unless you are awake

Considering v 25, it would only be fair to say when you see v 28 "when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." That one is surely awake, there to stay, and suffering.

Scary concept, but God has pleaded to us that we obey the gospel. Acts 17:30-31.

I again would like to thank you for a civil conversation my friend. A real pleasure.

 

[Acts2:38]

In regards to a Christian and an unbeliever being married: Well, I believe Paul was talking to couples that are already married not to divorce. Paul was certainly not telling Christians to marry unbelievers in 1 Corinthians 7 (unless you think he did say that). For Paul says elsewhere, in 2 Corinthians 6:14 not to be unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For it is one thing to be already yoked together (previously from one's old life), but it is another matter to seek out unions that are not of the body of Christ after being born again.

For there is a difference in:

"Dealing with the cards you are dealt with (in love)"

vs.

"Water seeking it's own level."


...

I find that this man explains it better than I could if you care to read this and apply the verses and context.

"Be Not Unequally Yoked"

 

[Vicomte13]

Yes

Does she love you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I find that this man explains it better than I could if you care to read this and apply the verses and context.

"Be Not Unequally Yoked"

Again, there is a difference between dealing with the cards you have dealt with in life versus trying to (willingly) seek out relationships that can cause problems for you.

While Christans are not under the commands in the Old Testament, the NT says the OT Law is profitable if we use it lawfully. For the OT gives a glimpse of how it is wrong to seek to marry those who are not of the faith. But one verse you will have a hard time getting around is 1 Corinthians 7:39, my friend.

It says,
"The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 7:39).

Here are some articles for you to check out, as well.

Don’t Take It from Me: Reasons You Should Not Marry an Unbeliever

Should Christians Date or Marry Non-Christians or Unbelievers? What’s the Bible Say?


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I also appreciate your kind response.

This story spoken of is a parable. Many such parables are used to help our 'human minds' understand close enough to just how bad or good things can be. Just like we say 'for example'. A Parable is an illustrated story that is cast alongside truth.

So to help anyone understand what that is let us use another parable with Luke 16's Rich man story in consideration.

Matthew 25:14-30 The talents story. If one understands this story, then they know that being a christian isn't just sitting around being a pew warmer and doing nothing else. For if they do not use their 'talents', they will be considered "wicked and slothful" and cast into "outer darkness" were there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

So if the talents story illustrates for us, the truth that a lazy servant of God will be cast away into hell, then it is only fair to surmise that the story of the rich man holds up as true that one would be conscious and suffering aka "weeping and gnashing". Do you sleep/stay unconscious and have weeping and gnashing?



I fail to see the sense in that which you said:

"For it is everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) --- Not everlasting punishing."

So let me post the Greek of eternal/everlasting again:

aiōnios "without end, never to cease, everlasting"

Now here is the Greek for punishment:

kolasis "correction, punishment, penalty"

I will now put these definitions together:

without end, never to cease, everlasting///correction, punishment, penalty

However, at the same time I wish for you to examine that very same word that is used for "life eternal". It is the same Greek word for everlasting.

With that word explaining both propositions of righteous life and wicked's punishment, it is only fair to say both are forever and ever. It is also fair to say that they both will be conscious.

You will have to provide scriptural evidence that one would not be aware of themselves being in hell since you already, in a way, admitted that one wouldn't be simply annihilated, but in a sleep. It is time to give scripture and not thought on where it says they are sleeping while in hell.




Neither is it a record that one is sleeping. You must have some sort of evidence via scripture to back why you believe this. The story of the 'Rich Man' was a parable used to illustrate to us a lesson. It would be fair to surmise more in the fact that one is awake than sleeping. God is a fair judge and people have their entire lives to get right with Him.

Isaiah 55:8-9. Who are we to question how He is to punish the wicked or save the righteous?





If someone were to use that statement of the soldier you made, I would tell them to correct there grammar. In other words, the sentence structure would be more like this "I am tormented BY this soldier." and not 'in'. Therefore your analogy is lost on me since the two sentence structures do not even compare.

The rich man WAS in the flame but you are not IN the soldier. I hope I am explaining this okay.

However you start to lose me again with, to me, back stepping:


After you said the rich man was not in the flame you then say toward the end that you don't doubt he is. I am confused by your contradictory statement and I apologize. Maybe I missed something.

Also, let us get the context of the Gen. 2:23 you mentioned.

" And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Now when you read this in context with the other words surrounding "this" you are now painted with a different picture. Adam is referring to something that is for sure, but Adam is not saying she is inside him nor is Adam saying he is inside her.

Now look at this sentence structure:

"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

In context, with the words around "this", you can only and logically come to the conclusion that this man IS indeed inside of the flames. He is "in" the flame.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition, let us look at the context to support that one is not merely unconscious/sleeping in Luke 16.

If a parable is an illustration that holds truth, then let us observe v 25

"But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

Would it not be fair to surmise that this is "everlasting"?

Would it also not be fair to assume by this context one is truly awake?

Again look at this verses 23, 24, and 30. The rich man is IN torment. He is awake. He is begging and pleading for mercy. Because the rich man was told that he will get no mercy, he then begs for his five brothers. Nowhere does this "illustrated story" that holds truth, indicate one is unconscious/sleeping or even ever was. In fact, by the context of v 25, it would actually support a life time of suffering.

To support Luke 16's rich man being awake see Luke 13 as well.

Luke 13:28

Weeping and gnashing = not possible unless you are conscious

Seeing Abraham = Not possible unless you are awake

Considering v 25, it would only be fair to say when you see v 28 "when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." That one is surely awake, there to stay, and suffering.

Scary concept, but God has pleaded to us that we obey the gospel. Acts 17:30-31.

I again would like to thank you for a civil conversation my friend. A real pleasure.

Does the text say specifically that they are weeping and gnashing their teeth in outer darkness or someplace else?
Is "outer darkness" a place in "hell" or is it a place in the "Lake of Fire" or is it some place else?
Is not death and hell cast into the Lake of Fire?

Anyways, I created a thread so as to move this dicussion.

The Dualistic Conditional Immortality View of Hell

Please reply here if you want to dicuss this topic further.

Thank you.
And may God bless you.


...

 

[Acts2:38]

Does the text say specifically that they are weeping and gnashing their teeth in outer darkness or someplace else?
Is "outer darkness" a place in "hell" or is it a place in the "Lake of Fire" or is it some place else?
Is not death and hell cast into the Lake of Fire?

Anyways, I created a thread so as to move this dicussion.

The Dualistic Conditional Immortality View of Hell

Please reply here if you want to dicuss this topic further.

Thank you.
And may God bless you.


...

Okay. Thank you for your kind and pleasant discussion with me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay. Thank you for your kind and pleasant discussion with me.

You are welcome.
I also edited a few words in Post #94 to be a little nicer, too.
Did not mean to say "twist." in regards to the Sciptures for you.
My deepest apologies.

May God bless you.


...

 

[Rakis]

Hi Guys, I need some advice.

I am a Christian and I have seen some people differ in their belief as to exactly what Christians believe. My belief is that your salvation/ever lasting life is obtained through your faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. That you are saved by faith and faith alone.

Now my problem is that I am in a relationship with a woman for a year and a half. She is Old Apostolic, the religion basically originated in South Africa.

They use the Bible, but they interpret it spiritually. They also go to church 6 days a week including twice on Sunday's. They are very faithful and their religion is held very high.

They also believe that you basically work through faith for your salvation and that is a fundamental difference. The other big difference is that they believe that Jesus was only an example that God sent us to show how to live, he had the gift of Christ in him and we must all strive to live like he did. When Jesus died he rose in the mind of people, so that Christ gift rose and not the physical body of Christ. So that being said they do not believe that Jesus will come again because he already came. They also believe that the Church is the body of Christ and thus when they refer to Jesus/the Son then they refer to the Church.

Before I met her I was single for a long time and asked Jesus to send me a faithful girl to spend my life with. I received exactly what i asked for, well exempt that her belief differs from mine.

I am not sure why it turned out like this and what to do. Why did God put me in this situation?

I have to basically change to their religion if i ever want to marry her btw.

Also they believe in Visions and Dreams and that is the way God speaks to us, the scary thing is that some of the dreams they spoke about actually happens exactly how it was seen. This is the only thing that makes me confused, because why will they get visions and dreams that is exactly to the point of how it was given. God warns them through visions and dreams, it actually makes one think.

Ok what's the name of the church bud?
#Investigation time #Church cops

 

[Tori D Berg]

Dear Shinoobi,

I want to commend you for searching out Christian advice for this difficult situation you are in. I am praying that God will clarify a path for you to follow that will lead you to the center of His will. I outlined your post below, please correct me if I summarized it incorrectly:

• You correctly believe that Jesus died for your sins and are saved by faith in Him and not works.
• You correctly believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and not a salad bar with elements that can be left or put on one’s plate per the whims of person.
• You correctly believe that Jesus is 100% God and He was not lying when He said that He was the only way to the Father.
• Her belief system depends on works and she will never know when she has done enough to earn her place in heaven. Her beliefs condemn her to a life of insecurity and anxiety where she can never have peace. God loves her and wants her to have His Peace and His Security to know that He wants her to go to heaven through His Son Jesus. God knows she doesn’t deserve His free, priceless gift! That that is why she can celebrate the gift because none of us serve it!
• God may or may not have led you to this specific girl. It may have been God, Satan or random circumstances that orchestrated the meeting. If it was God, did He want you to date her or just witness to her about Jesus? It’s difficult to see the big picture when you are only a puzzle piece, so you may need to ask the Holy Spirit if your belief is correct.
• To marry this girl, you will need to convert to her religion. Is it even possible for you to convert to a religion that is so insecure? Would you (could you?) take Jesus’ gift of eternal life and hand it back saying, “I’m going to work for it now, but thanks!”? I couldn’t. So if you “converted” to marry this girl, would you be adding deception to the foundation of your marriage? What would this mean to your children?
• Visions and dreams can be used to deceive people. Read Acts 16 about the slave girl who was a psychic and fortune teller. Satan may be gleeful that he has been able to trick such a devoted group of people to discount Jesus and not accept His free gift of salvation.

Please read your Bible and pray for this entire community to accept Jesus as 100% God. I will be praying for you, Shinoobi, and your girl so you may both reach the decision Jesus wants you to reach.


Tori D Berg

 

[Tori D Berg]

Dear Shinoobi,

I want to commend you for searching out Christian advice for this difficult situation you are in. I am praying that God will clarify a path for you to follow that will lead you to the center of His will. I outlined your post below, please correct me if I summarized it incorrectly:

• You correctly believe that Jesus died for your sins and are saved by faith in Him and not works.
• You correctly believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and not a salad bar with elements which can be left off or put on one’s plate per the whims of the person.
• You correctly believe that Jesus is 100% God and He was not lying when He said that He was the only way to the Father.
• Her belief depends on works and she will never know when she has done enough to earn her place in heaven. Her belief system condemns her to a life of insecurity and anxiety where she can never have peace. God loves her and wants her to have His Peace and His Security to know that He wants her to go to heaven through His Son Jesus. God knows she doesn’t deserve His free, priceless gift! That that is why she can celebrate the gift because none of us deserve it!
• God may or may not have led you to this specific girl. It may have been God, Satan or random circumstances that orchestrated the meeting. If it was God, did He want you to date her or just witness to her about Jesus? It’s difficult to see the big picture when you are only a puzzle piece, so you may need to ask the Holy Spirit if your belief is correct.
• To marry this girl, you will need to convert to her religion. Is it even possible for you to convert to a religion that is so insecure? Would you (could you?) take Jesus’ gift of eternal life and hand it back saying, “I’m going to work for it now, but thanks!”? I couldn’t. So if you “converted” to marry this girl, would you be adding deception to the foundation of your marriage? What would this mean to your children?
• Visions and dreams can be used to deceive people. Read Acts 16 about the slave girl who was a psychic and fortune teller. Satan may be gleeful that he has been able to trick such a devoted group of people to discount Jesus and not accept His free gift of salvation.

Please read your Bible and pray for this entire community to accept Jesus as 100% God. I will be praying for you, Shinoobi, and your girl so you may both reach the decision Jesus wants you to reach.

Tori D Berg