Why seek "God"?

[ananda]

don't be dull, buddhism doesn't profess the perfect truth, it distorts it, and buddha was never a Savior like Jesus - it doesn't pay to substitute the true One, because only He is the true Light/Life for us...

Blessings

As I see it, early Buddhism professes verifiable truths; and, the historical Buddha was never recorded as claiming to be a savior (like the Christian concept of "savior"), but merely a guide who shows us the way to save ourselves:

One truly is the protector of oneself; who else could the protector be? With oneself fully controlled, one gains a mastery that is hard to gain. Dhp 160

By oneself is evil done; by oneself is one defiled. By oneself is evil left undone; by oneself is one made pure. Purity and impurity depend on oneself; no one can purify another. Dhp 165

One is one's own protector, one is one's own refuge. Therefore, one should control oneself, even as a trader controls a noble steed. Dhp 380​

 

[toLiJC]

toLiJC, what do you have to say about the "Heart of Christ", as you experience Christ?

As an aside, I find it interesting that much ( if not all?) of Christian theology has been developed by Mystics, yet very little if anything is known about them by much of today's Christian community. And than with the Protestant community providing the greatest amount of derogatory commentary about something they have no clue about.

mysticism is at least unclear, besides that it is strange, odd, exotic, recherche, euphoric, etc., which speaks of one very typical arrangement/scenario of satan, IOW, there is no guarantee that mysticism isn't based on the kingdom of the wicked/evil one or involved with unclean/satanic/devilish spirits - why don't they call it faith instead of mysticism?!, because it is not the true faith, but some kind of other faith, and the interesting feature of mysticism with which it stands out is the mystical, not the very effective salvation in the true One, which means/makes it clear that the attention of the worshiper is diverted from the important thing(namely the true salvation) to all possible kinds of other things, and thus such a worshiper turns out to be a mystic, not a Savior like Jesus and His true disciples presented in the Bible, which means that such a worshiper is losing and is probably involved in "fornication"(a biblical word for spiritual unrighteousness from the perspective of favoring oneself to the detriment of the neighbor/cohabitant)

Revelation 17:3-6 "I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

as it can be seen from the excerpted passage, the system of unrighteous spirituality/religiosity("babylon") is mystical(occult/esoteric and mysterious) at its core...

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

As I see it, early Buddhism professes verifiable truths; and, the historical Buddha was never recorded as claiming to be a savior (like the Christian concept of "savior"), but merely a guide who shows us the way to save ourselves:

One truly is the protector of oneself; who else could the protector be? With oneself fully controlled, one gains a mastery that is hard to gain. Dhp 160

By oneself is evil done; by oneself is one defiled. By oneself is evil left undone; by oneself is one made pure. Purity and impurity depend on oneself; no one can purify another. Dhp 165

One is one's own protector, one is one's own refuge. Therefore, one should control oneself, even as a trader controls a noble steed. Dhp 380​

yes, and unfortunately this is precisely what the imperfection/unrighteousness of buddhism consists in from one of the viewpoints - namely that everyone must supposedly save himself/herself by practicing the faith thoroughly and systematically, which indicates that everyone must be a whole cleric, but this is not only very hard to achieve/accomplish (because many people are usually not inclined to become and be (so) spiritual/religious) but also very dangerous, because many people have been inclined to commit unrighteousness in the faith, and on the whole, such a salvation relies/depends on whether all people will begin, continue and manage to do/accomplish everything alone, because if not, buddhism says they won't be saved, for it cannot provide all people with full salvation and abundant eternal life if they don't all practice the faith thoroughly and systematically according to the method of buddhism - and why must everyone (necessarily) be a minister, president, premier, surgeon or another suchlike thing at all?!

Blessings

 

[dlamberth]

mysticism is at least unclear, besides that it is strange, odd, exotic, recherche, euphoric, etc., which speaks of one very typical arrangement/scenario of satan, IOW, there is no guarantee that mysticism isn't based on the kingdom of the wicked/evil one or involved with unclean/satanic/devilish spirits - why don't they call it faith instead of mysticism?!, because it is not the true faith, but some kind of other faith, and the interesting feature of mysticism with which it stands out is the mystical, not the very effective salvation in the true One, which means/makes it clear that the attention of the worshiper is diverted from the important thing(namely the true salvation) to all possible kinds of other things, and thus such a worshiper turns out to be a mystic, not a Savior like Jesus and His true disciples presented in the Bible, which means that such a worshiper is losing and is probably involved in "fornication"(a biblical word for spiritual unrighteousness from the perspective of favoring oneself to the detriment of the neighbor/cohabitant)

Revelation 17:3-6 "I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

as it can be seen from the excerpted passage, the system of unrighteous spirituality/religiosity("babylon") is mystical(occult/esoteric and mysterious) at its core...

Blessings

So why, if you think so poorly of mysticism, do you than quote the mystical experience of Revelation 17:3-6? That makes no sense to me.

 

[toLiJC]

quite clear toLiJC doesn't really know much about mysticism. common for people who don't know much about something to just insult and belittle it.

when do you see me insulting any person?!, i just witness to the truth of the true One here, and it doesn't destroy any human or other (be)souled being or soul, but if something is unclean, it is unclean, regardless of how people (can) call or present it, because there is also "darkness" besides "Light"

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

So why, if you think so poorly of mysticism, do you than quote the mystical experience of Revelation 17:3-6? That makes no sense to me.

a man blind to the truth cannot see the truth and it makes no sense to him

Blessings

 

[TheOldWays]

when do you see me insulting any person?!

i didn't say you insulted anyone. you belittle and insult ideas that you know little about is all I am saying.

 

[dlamberth]

a man blind to the truth cannot see the truth and it makes no sense to him

You didn't answer my question. Here, I'll ask again:
So why, if you think so poorly of mysticism, do you than quote the mystical experience of Revelation 17:3-6?

 

[ananda]

yes, and unfortunately this is precisely what the imperfection/unrighteousness of buddhism consists in from one of the viewpoints - namely that everyone must supposedly save himself/herself by practicing the faith thoroughly and systematically, which indicates that everyone must be a whole cleric, but this is not only very hard to achieve/accomplish (because many people are usually not inclined to become and be (so) spiritual/religious) but also very dangerous, because many people have been inclined to commit unrighteousness in the faith, and on the whole, such a salvation relies/depends on whether all people will begin, continue and manage to do/accomplish everything alone, because if not, buddhism says they won't be saved, for it cannot provide all people with full salvation and abundant eternal life if they don't all practice the faith thoroughly and systematically according to the method of buddhism - and why must everyone (necessarily) be a minister, president, premier, surgeon or another suchlike thing at all?!

Blessings

Buddhism provides individuals with endless opportunities to "get it right", through the ongoing process of rebirth. Experiencing and learning about cause & effect behind both skillful ("good") and unskillful ("bad") behavior is part of this path.

On the other hand, orthodox Christianity gives individuals one chance (one lifetime) to get it right, not to mention the fact that the way to accomplish that is not even clear to the innumerable factions within Christianity.

 

[toLiJC]

i didn't say you insulted anyone. you belittle and insult ideas that you know little about is all I am saying.

i don't know more than God, which is why when i talk about spiritual things i speak only what He gives me to speak, and He, the true One, never lies

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

You didn't answer my question. Here, I'll ask again:
So why, if you think so poorly of mysticism, do you than quote the mystical experience of Revelation 17:3-6?

when i speak about spiritual things i don't think anything of myself, but the Word of God comes from Him, the true One, and i don't find there is anything mystical in that, but there is definitely a spiritual activity in the true One, Who is its very Doer

Blessings

 

[ananda]

i don't know more than God, which is why when i talk about spiritual things i speak only what He gives me to speak, and He, the true One, never lies

Blessings

How do you interpret these claims from your deity?

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7 ... And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9

 

[toLiJC]

Buddhism provides individuals with endless opportunities to "get it right", through the ongoing process of rebirth. Experiencing and learning about cause & effect behind both skillful ("good") and unskillful ("bad") behavior is part of this path.

On the other hand, orthodox Christianity gives individuals one chance (one lifetime) to get it right, not to mention the fact that the way to accomplish that is not even clear to the innumerable factions within Christianity.

you say one religion or another consisting of human beings provides or gives such and such things, the faithful worshipers of the One Who is really the true Lord God don't trust any religion more than Him, because spiritual/religious humans have been inclined to deceive themselves and others with their(human) spirituality/religiosity, the way the tradition of the world of human spirituality/religiosity works is from human to human, while the tradition of the true Saints always comes from the true One, because They are faithful to Him or His righteousness all the time, for They realize there can be no one wiser than the One Who created everything good, including human beings, from scratch... - they know He is the Savior with greatest efficiency/performance...

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

How do you interpret these claims from your deity?

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7 ... And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9

i can be good, i can be evil, what is it?!, how would you prefer me to treat you?!, do you want your God to do evil to you?!, or how can you imagine God causing evil to any soul at all?!... - this is what is embedded in the biblical prophecies such as the ones you excerpted above, because the struggle between the "Light" and the "darkness" seen as a God should be clarified (many worshipers in those times perceived the two main manifestations of the divine as one God, but there have always been true God and "darkness(wicked/evil one)" that are two quite distinct entities)

Blessings

 

[dlamberth]

when i speak about spiritual thinks i don't think anything of myself, but the Word of God comes from Him, the true One, and i don't find there is anything mystical in that, but there is definitely a spiritual activity in the true One, Who is its very Doer

Blessings

The mystical aspect comes in when God IS a reality in ones life and where a person desires a deeper communion with God that goes beyond "Faith". I asked you about the "Heart of Christ", and got no answer. I suspect that's an aspect of Faith that you haven't explored yet. But Christ is there for us to open up to in a deeper way. He has even invited us to do so. And that's what I'm talking about. For a "seeker", there's Faith, yes...but that's only the beginning. Why stop there? And...why deny those inner experiences of God when through that process that's also how much of Christian theology came to light? And your even quoting mystical experiences taken from the Bible!

 

[ananda]

i can be good, i can be evil, what is it?!, how would you prefer me to treat you?!, do you want your God to do evil to you?!, or how can you imagine God causing evil to any soul at all?!... - this is what is embedded in the biblical prophecies such as the ones you excerpted above, because the struggle between the "Light" and the "darkness" seen as a God should be clarified (many worshipers in those times perceived the two main manifestations of the divine as one God, but there have always been true God and "darkness(wicked/evil one)" that are two quite distinct entities)

Blessings

If "God" is almighty and infinite, I see no reason why it would be engaged in a "struggle" at all - whether with itself, or with a separate force. I would not consider such a being, engaged in such struggles, to be at peace ... or to be seen as the ultimate hope.

 

[dlamberth]

.... but there is definitely a spiritual activity in the true One, Who is its very Doer

How is spiritual activity, not mysticism?

 

[FireDragon76]

Buddhism provides individuals with endless opportunities to "get it right", through the ongoing process of rebirth. Experiencing and learning about cause & effect behind both skillful ("good") and unskillful ("bad") behavior is part of this path.

That's not a good thing, necessarily. Not something to put ones hope in. The belief in rebirth in traditionalist Buddhist societies can rob human life of dignity. Especially for the disabled and women.

On the other hand, orthodox Christianity gives individuals one chance (one lifetime) to get it right, not to mention the fact that the way to accomplish that is not even clear to the innumerable factions within Christianity.

Christians all agree that salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ. It's clear that real faith is the one thing you lacked for some time, and that is why you see no way.

 

[ananda]

That's not a good thing, necessarily. Not something to put ones hope in. The belief in rebirth in traditionalist Buddhist societies can rob human life of dignity. Especially for the disabled and women.

The great hope of Buddhism is that we can always work to better ourselves, and to always change our situation, no matter how bad it might be. Even if we found ourselves in the lowest hell, we can know it's not eternal and that we can still work our way out of it.

It seems supremely more just than the notion of an eternal hell because of deeds done or undone in the span of a comparatively short human lifetime.

Christians all agree that salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ. It's clear that real faith is the one thing you lacked for some time, and that is why you see no way.

How do you know that I didn't have faith?

 

[dlamberth]

That's not a good thing, necessarily. Not something to put ones hope in. The belief in rebirth in traditionalist Buddhist societies can rob human life of dignity. Especially for the disabled and women.

Except that you don't see that kind of thing in Buddhist societies because it's not cut the way your describing the effects of their rebirth traditions. But you sure do see loss of dignity here in this society, especially for the homeless, the poor and elderly with no money. Here, dignity cost money.