Do all humans come from Africa?

devin553344

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John's vision ??? Hair like WOOL and feet the color of BRASS ???

Revelation 1

12 I turned to see who was talking to me. When I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands. 13 I saw someone among the lampstands who looked like the Son of Man. He was dressed in a long robe, with a golden sash tied around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool—wool that is white as snow. His eyes were like flames of fire. 15 His feet were like brass that glows hot in a furnace.

Technically speaking that was a vision. I'm not sure its to be taken literal. Nor do the apostles use this description when he appeared after the resurrection. There are a lot of strange vision creatures in the Book of Revelation, John's visions are fairly bizarre to the literal mind. A black and white approach seems bizarre then?
 
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Episaw

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I recently accepted that Jesus the Christ was in fact middle eastern and not Caucasian like the pictures that some churches have of Jesus. Which leads me to the study of my origins as a white person.

Then I was reading in the Human article on wikipedia Human - Wikipedia and I saw under the illustration slightly down on the page the "human timeline" that homoerectus or homohabilis migrated from Africa.

So if I am to accept some sort of mixture between creationism and evolution, than also does that illustration mean that all humans are from Africa also? So that although I'm not African my ancestors are from Africa at some point?

On any subject like this, it is always best to start with what the bible says. The origins of man are the Middle East, where the garden of Eden is. That means our origins are not African.
 
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A_Thinker

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Technically speaking that was a vision. I'm not sure its to be taken literal. Nor do the apostles use this description when he appeared after the resurrection. There are a lot of strange vision creatures in the Book of Revelation, John's visions are fairly bizarre to the literal mind. A black and white approach seems bizarre then?

The post I was replying to was on the subject of the truth of visions ...
 
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devin553344

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The post I was replying to was on the subject of the truth of visions ...

Visions from God must be taken as truth. The dreams of the Pharaoh of Egypt represented some truth as in seven years of feast and seven years of famine when given to see birds and corn and such in visions. But could not be taken literally and had to be interpreted by God and given to Joseph to convey the truth of them to the Pharaoh.

Is that more like what you were referring to? The hidden truth of visions. I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean.
 
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A_Thinker

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Visions from God must be taken as truth. The dreams of the Pharaoh of Egypt represented some truth as in seven years of feast and seven years of famine when given to see birds and corn and such in visions. But could not be taken literally and had to be interpreted by God and given to Joseph to convey the truth of them to the Pharaoh.

Is that more like what you were referring to? The hidden truth of visions. I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean.

The post that I replied to (#128) opined that skin color could be discerned from visions ...
 
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Papias

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On any subject like this, it is always best to start with what the bible says. The origins of man are the Middle East, where the garden of Eden is.

This is ignores what was pointed out earlier, that many genres are included in the Bibles, so we don't know where it is set, even if that's supposed to be saying that.

The second story talks about the Tigris and Euphrates, but also mentions other rivers and clearly doesn't correspond to anywhere today. It's likely that those names were used later to name local rivers, (like Bethlehem Pennsylvania isn't where Jesus was born), so they don't actually tell us anything. The first story says nothing about where people originated, and doesn't match the first story, so that's a clear sign from the Holy Spirit that the genre here is not literal.

Since the stories aren't intended as literal descriptions, we can look at the rest of God's revelation - in His creation itself. That shows clearly that we came out of Africa before 50,000 years ago (after evolving from earlier apes), as numerous people on this thread have pointed out.

The stuff about the shroud of Turin is irrelevant. The shroud of Turin is an obvious work of ark made during the middle ages, and thus only tells us what an Italian artist around 1300 AD thought Jesus might have looked like (or, being that the image looks Italian - maybe this is what the artist wanted Jesus to look like? or just a fanciful image?).
170px-Shroudofturin.jpg

That's clear from many different pieces of evidence. One is that carbon dating of multiple samples at several independant labs all consistently show that the shroud of Turin was made around 1300 AD.

The clearest evidence is the image itself, which is shown in this thread. The face doesn't match the proportions of a real human being. The forehead is tiny, as if Jesus suffered from microcephaly, and the eyebrow positions similarly don't match how real eyebrows are.
The face is too long - as if Jesus had a stretched out head. Plus, if one drapes a cloth over a face (try it), the sides of the cloth bend down on the sides toward the ears, and one ends up with a widened face image - which is not seen.

The arms are anatomically too long - as if Jesus was a long armed freak, and even worse, one arm is significantly longer than the other arm! Plus, with a limp human lying on their back, one can't physically leave their hands covering their crotch - they fall to the side (lie on your back and try it yourself).

That hands over the crotch itself shows that this is a work of art for public (not pubic) display. After all, if a dead guy were wrapped in a shroud for burial, why would one bother to put their hands over their crotch - to keep the worms from being offended? But, if this were a work of art by an Italian artist in 1300 AD intended for public display, he probably would put the hands over the crotch. No one would pay to come and see Jesus' crotch, after all!

Not to mention the fact that this doesn't match the way people are wrapped for burial. For burial, the shroud is wrapped around the person, and no clear image would result. That doesn't work very well for an artist, as the image isn't clear. If, on the other hand, the intent from the start was to make a work of art, one can then imaging a simple folded over sheet as we see in the shroud of Turin.

On top of all that, the artist who made it confessed to painting it himself. That was mentioned in a 14th century letter to Pope Clement VII by the bishop who investigated the shroud initially. For 600 Years, Shroud of Turin Has Been Known as a Forgery

There's more, but that's enough to make it obvious that the shroud of Turin is fake.

In Christ-

Papias
 
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Monk Brendan

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I always knew that Jesus was a blue-eyed, white blonde. And since he's God's exact likeness, Then God is too.

Forgive me, but what you are saying is unsupported by any data--even out of the Bible. Jesus was a Jew. The Ashkenazim had not even begun to emigrate out of the area between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. And the Ashkenazim are an innovation from after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

The original Jews (Sephardim) come from the area of the Middle East. They usually have black hair and dark brown eyes. Their skin may be light to dark olive brown in color.

Having said that, I also know that pictures of Jesus usually represent the cultural background of the artist. For instance, I have seen Oriental (Chinese and Japanese) pictures of Jesus that show Him to be oriental--black hair and eyes, yellowish brown skin, and the "slanted" eyes. The whole idea that Jesus MUST be a particular color (black, white, red, pink with purple polka dots, green or blue) is not a part of our salvation. What He did for us is what is important.
 
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Waggles

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Of course evolution is how God created all that is. There is plenty of evidence for it,
No. Evolution has always depended on a deliberate denial of all the real evidence for Creation.
Geology and biology, nor physics support evolution. Darwinists deliberately omit all the contradictory evidence that shows up
evolution to be a false science. And much fanciful speculation is injected into the problem that there still is no real observable
evidence to show the progress of biological and species evolution.

"Of course evolution is how God created all that is." The Bible clearly and emphatically declares creation by the power of God.
The visible world was made from things invisible.
The first line of the Bible, Genesis 1:1, declares that God created space and time and matter.
 
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kiwimac

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No. Evolution has always depended on a deliberate denial of all the real evidence for Creation.
Geology and biology, nor physics support evolution. Darwinists deliberately omit all the contradictory evidence that shows up
evolution to be a false science. And much fanciful speculation is injected into the problem that there still is no real observable
evidence to show the progress of biological and species evolution.

"Of course evolution is how God created all that is." The Bible clearly and emphatically declares creation by the power of God.
The visible world was made from things invisible.
The first line of the Bible, Genesis 1:1, declares that God created space and time and matter.
You can, of course, prove what you write? The evidence for evolution is overwhelming but I am willing to listen. So please post your proof.
 
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Waggles

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Papias

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Only to those who want to believe it. Most is supposition.
As to proof of the fallicy of evolution there are many books available to read, plus numerous web-sites for
you to peruse.

Center for Scientific Creation | In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood

and take a look at this video on Genesis 1:1

Only to those who want to believe that the earth is round don't follow the Bibles clear description of a flat earth. Most globalism is supposition.

As to proof of the fallicy of a round earth, there are many books available to read, plus numerous web-sites for
you to peruse.

Here's a video that goes through Genesis 1 step by step, to show how clearly it gives a flat earth when read literally.


Other verses read literally also clearly describe a flat earth.


in Christ -

Papias
 
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Heaven's Child

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No, They don't. And there's no evidence of Jesus being black. It's only a theory. What if Marry and Joseph's families came from Europe? There must clearly be a reason, Why the Holy Spirit gives artists a vision of a white Jesus.

This black Jesus theory has no real evidence.

Actually, the whole human family descended from Noah and his sons: Japheth, Ham and Shem (Genesis 7:21-23). The Hebrew people are peoples descended from Shem (Genesis 10:21-31). Arphaxad, was the 3rd son of Shem and also the ancestor of Terah, Abrams father (Genesis 11:10-26). Abram was Hebrew (Genesis 14:13) and a decedent of Jesus Christ (Matthew 1:1-17)

Next, look at Genesis 11 again. God destroyed the Tower of Babel, the descendants of these sons migrated to different parts of the Middle East: Japheth's descendants moved west into Anatolia (Turkey) and Greece; Ham's descendants went south into Arabia and Egypt; and Shem's descendants remained in the east in what we know today as Iraq. Therefore, Jesus was whatever Shem, Abraham and their descendants were. Luke gives a full account of the genealogy of Adam to Jesus (Luke 3:34-38). Notice all the above was a part of Jesus’ bloodline. From this we can conclude that Jesus was not of European decent. Jesus’ ancestors came from the middle east somewhere around Iraq.

If Europe is to be considered here, Jesus would have had to be a decedent of Japheth and we know that that isn’t true based on the scriptures above. Also, ancient Europe never existed. It is an offspring of Asia.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I don't read in the bible anything on evolution sir.
A good place to start is with the first 32 verses. (Genesis Chapter One) You would need hundreds of thousands of science books just to begin to understand what is contained in those 32 verses.
 
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joshua 1 9

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That is what Evolution promotes.
If that is what they want to promote then let them promote it. What difference does it make? My understanding is that God became a part of His Creation. The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us.
 
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joshua 1 9

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So what you're saying is a Biology book is your ultimate authority?
The Biology book is going through constant revision. We need to study the evidence that God gives us in Science and go where the evidence leads us. My study of ancient history and my study of science and biology helps me to better understand the Bible.
 
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Acts2:38

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A good place to start is with the first 32 verses. (Genesis Chapter One) You would need hundreds of thousands of science books just to begin to understand what is contained in those 32 verses.

Hmm, you are reading from a foreign bible to me sir. Genesis 1 only has 31 verses in it.

However, I think I know what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that the creation took whole entire ages to do?

The Hebrew word for day in Genesis 1 is yowm. In context, it cannot mean an entire age but just one 24 hour period since each day says "And the evening and the morning were" This gives you even FURTHER indication it was just a 24 hour period and NOT thousands or millions of years.
 
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Open Heart

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I recently accepted that Jesus the Christ was in fact middle eastern and not Caucasian like the pictures that some churches have of Jesus. Which leads me to the study of my origins as a white person.

Then I was reading in the Human article on wikipedia Human - Wikipedia and I saw under the illustration slightly down on the page the "human timeline" that homoerectus or homohabilis migrated from Africa.

So if I am to accept some sort of mixture between creationism and evolution, than also does that illustration mean that all humans are from Africa also? So that although I'm not African my ancestors are from Africa at some point?
Yes. Modern human beings migrated out of Africa. Secondary characteristics such as white skin or blonde hair are mutations that happened later in history.
 
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