Do all humans come from Africa?

[JoeP222w]

The Biology book is going through constant revision. We need to study the evidence that God gives us in Science and go where the evidence leads us. My study of ancient history and my study of science and biology helps me to better understand the Bible.

If a book, any book, goes through constant revision, it is not an ultimate authority or ultimate source of truth.

 

[Open Heart]

View attachment 194660
This is most likely the true face of Jesus Christ - the miraculous imagery on the Shroud of Turin.
The face is Caucasian, or Euro-Aryan - definitely not Negroid, nor Indian, not Chinese, not Aztec...

It sure doesn't look European.

 

[Open Heart]

The people of the MiddleEast are Aryan. The people of Persia, Assyria, Lebanon, Arabia and so on are not black, definitely not negroid.

Oh my goodness. You actually believe in races? Don't you know that science has proven this concept false? There are so many reasons why the idea of race doesn't work. To begin with, there is i.e. no line where "negroid" ends and "caucasoid" begins.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If a book, any book, goes through constant revision, it is not an ultimate authority or ultimate source of truth.

The Bible is an ultimate source of truth. Only our understanding goes through constant revision. In fact Paul says "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known." (1 Cor 13) We do not have perfect understanding but the day will come when we will. God watches over His word to perform and to do what He says He will do. The Bible is an old and a new covenant. If we do our part of the covenant, then we can be sure God will do His part.

Isaiah 55:10 "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

 

[joshua 1 9]

Hmm, you are reading from a foreign bible to me sir. Genesis 1 only has 31 verses in it.

However, I think I know what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that the creation took whole entire ages to do?

The Hebrew word for day in Genesis 1 is yowm. In context, it cannot mean an entire age but just one 24 hour period since each day says "And the evening and the morning were" This gives you even FURTHER indication it was just a 24 hour period and NOT thousands or millions of years.

There are many layers of meaning to the Bible. YEC is just as valid as OEC. Each has their own perspective. We are dealing with Shadow and Types. Noah was a very real person and Noah's flood was a very real flood. Still we know that from OUR perspective Noah's flood was a local flood. But for Noah his whole world was destroyed. Based on his perspective. Also we know that the whole world was flooded and destroyed around 200 million years ago when Pangea was broken up. There have been 6 massive extinctions where only 10% remained to repopulate the Earth. This is a theme in the Bible where a remnant remains to repopulate the land.

We can spend our whole life to study the Bible and to study Science. In the end we will only be starting to understand. So the end of us is really only a beginning.

 

[JoeP222w]

The Bible is an ultimate source of truth.

"The" ultimate source of truth. There is no other ultimate source of truth, by definition.

If we do our part of the covenant, then we can be sure God will do His part.

That is not how the covenant of Grace works. If we had a part to play in the covenant (Synergism) than we are saved by works, and this is not Biblical. Grace is unmerited favor. God gets all of the credit and all of the glory.

 

[Bronze messiah]

No, They don't. And there's no evidence of Jesus being black. It's only a theory. What if Marry and Joseph's families came from Europe? There must clearly be a reason, Why the Holy Spirit gives artists a vision of a white Jesus.

This black Jesus theory has no real evidence.

Rubbish. There's no evidence of him being white either, but here we are sharing false images of brice Jenner with a beard. Fact is the bible Gives us a image - bronze and wooly hair. (Same describes for Ethiopians Egyptians moors and natives of America)4 times. 2 Jesus didn't go to Europe he went to Africa to hide and blend in. 3, there artifacts and painting of ANCEINT BBC Hebrews with negroid and mongo features. Not to mean everyone in the region serves hams God el. (IsraEL Emanu'EL Gabriel eliohim ) etc

 

[joshua 1 9]

That is not how the covenant of Grace works. If we had a part to play in the covenant (Synergism) than we are saved by works, and this is not Biblical. Grace is unmerited favor. God gets all of the credit and all of the glory.

I have never taken a college course in covenant theology so I really am not qualified to talk about it. They do have a Covenant Theology forum on here for discussions on that topic.

What I am talking about are the promises of God. All the promises of God are conditional. We have our part to do before God can do His part of the promise. For example: "31 Yet those who wait for the LORD Will gain new strength;" Our part is to wait on the Lord and His part is to renew our strength. Depending on your translation. Other translations say we are to "hope" or "trust" in the Lord.

 

[Bronze messiah]

Middle East of what? north eat Africa, keep in mind kush ruled for centuries. Ham. And Shem should look like ham, according to science me most likely did.

 

[Acts2:38]

There are many layers of meaning to the Bible.

God is not the author of confusion 1 Corinthians 14:33 & 44. If this were the case as you'd state, God is a liar and there is no hope for salvation since its layered with different meanings, confusing everyone as to what is real and not. No my friend this is not so. False statement from lack of understanding and study.

Please don't take my frank talk as belligerent. Your best friends are the ones that correct you when your wrong and well be there to explain to you no matter your reaction.

YEC is just as valid as OEC. Each has their own perspective.

No. It is either/ or, but not both. The bible states things in black and white with no gray area.

Still we know that from OUR perspective Noah's flood was a local flood. But for Noah his whole world was destroyed. Based on his perspective. Also we know that the whole world was flooded and destroyed around 200 million years ago when Pangea was broken up.

You contradict yourself. How can you say "we know...our perspective noahs flood is local" but then turn around and say "we know...whole world was flooded..."?

The scripture I read says the world was flooded, then it was flooded. How do you get around ignoring verses such as this...

"19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:"

How do you ignore that and just say "oh its just a local flood"?

That is just preposterous to make such a claim.

Let me break down a part of Genesis for you on the time frame.

Gen.1:8 "And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Remember that Hebrew word for "day" I told you about?

yowm --- One could argue that yowm can also mean an age or period of time.

I will grant you that much, however, there are a couple more KEY WORDS you are not paying attention too.

"the evening and the morning" Evening in Hebrew is `ereb and Morning in Hebrew is boqer.

Let us combine these words with day

"the evening and the morning were the second day"

Evening/morning = Second day

One 24 hour period. It does not take a scientist to understand that. You either believe God's word or you can just dismiss it.

This is a theme in the Bible where a remnant remains to repopulate the land.

Even if the entire world helped you in this endevour, you could never ever find any support for this statement using scripture for anything before the account of Noah and the flood.

 

[SolomonVII]

Yes. Modern human beings migrated out of Africa. Secondary characteristics such as white skin or blonde hair are mutations that happened later in history.

Do you have a source that the first groups recognized as humans had dark skin?

 

[SolomonVII]

Interesting. I never heard of that. Links, evidence, authors that refute moses as writer please?

Ive read those books many times and not once did I notice different writing styles. I think its like the last 8? verses that are Joshua. There is a plethora of evidence for that. Not once have I seen what your talking about. I'd have to see/look into this.

The theory of JEPD has large amounts of data behind it.
Google

 

[Acts2:38]

That is not how the covenant of Grace works. If we had a part to play in the covenant (Synergism) than we are saved by works, and this is not Biblical. Grace is unmerited favor. God gets all of the credit and all of the glory.

I don't know where you stand, so this is not really directed to you specifically Joe , but I just wanted to make a statement in general to this.

While grace IS an unmerited favor God still has had specific commands. I would think the the book of James explains pretty well James 2:14-26.

Also, if one is REALLY opposed to the whole works idea they may even want to consider looking at this verses here John 6:29

Seems like even belief is a work according to our Lord.

 

[Acts2:38]

The theory of JEPD

Theory. Just theory right? "a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation" or basically speculation and/or conjuncture?

Forgive me for not taking these peoples word for it. I may not be a scientist, but I think I can discipher different writing styles in reading a book. All 5 of the first books, spare the last 8 verses because Moses was supposed dead before that point, are indeed one style writer.

Also, the people that have that theory of JEPD, and I read their stuff a little bit, believe that the bible contradicts itself. That right there in a nut shell, tells me these scientists are a joke, since they don't believe the bible in the first place.

 

[SolomonVII]

Negroid peoples were certainly known in the Middle East and North Africa. One dynasty of Egyptian pharaohs was black and black soldiers acting as mercenaries for various kingdoms were common. There certainly must have been some genetic mixing but I do not know of any permanent presence or settlement of negroid peoples in the Middle East.

Genetic history of North Africa - Wikipedia
The wiki article gives a pretty good description of who Egyptians stretching back thousands of years.

The data shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were a group of populations that already lived in the region around thirteen thousand years ago. Furthermore, this local North African genetic component is very different from the one found in the populations in the south of the Sahara, which shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were members of a subgroup of humanity who left Africa to conquer the rest of the world and who subsequently returned to the north of the continent to settle in the region.

As well as this local component, North African populations were also observed to share genetic markers with all the neighbouring regions, as a result of more recent migrations, although these appear in different proportions.​

There is an influence from the Middle East, which becomes less marked as the distance from the Arabian Peninsula increases, similar proportions of European influence in all North African populations, and, in some populations, there are even individuals who present a large proportion of influence from the South of the Sahara in their genome.

A 2015 study by Dobon et al. identified an ancestral autosomal component of West Eurasian origin that is common to many modern Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations in Northeast Africa. Known as the Coptic component, it peaks among Egyptian Copts who settled in Sudan over the past two centuries. The Coptic component evolved out of a main North African and Middle Eastern ancestral component that is shared by other Egyptians and also found at high frequencies among other Afro-Asiatic populations in Northeast Africa (~70%). The scientists suggest that this points to a common origin for the general population of Egypt. They also associate the Coptic component with Ancient Egyptian ancestry, without the later Arabian influence that is present among other Egyptians.[26]
​

So a good indication of who the Egyptians would have been at the time that Joseph and his brothers migrated to Egypt would have been like the Copts of Egypt today. Thirteen thousand years history would cover that time frame.

There is a wide mingling of genotypes in North Africa, sub-Saharan abotu 20%, but Copts are for the most part Western Asian Semitic population. These would have been the people that Joseph and family(Likewise Western Asian and Semitic) would have been interbreeding with for all those centuries of slavery in Egypt.

Israel today would be much whiter, and Egypt more Arab. This is due to so many Jews in Israel today itnerbreeding with Europeans for over a thousand years, and the Islamic expansion over North Africa from Arabia.

Jesus himself was born at the crossroads of three continents, so it is impossible to really say much about his own physical appearance.
In the main though, his ancestors would have had strong Coptic influence, which is Western Asian, no matter how you slice it.

Of course if your are Catholic, you recognize that his flesh is as white as the Eucharist, and his blood as red as a glass of wine, but that is another story.

 

[JoeP222w]

I don't know where you stand, so this is not really directed to you specifically Joe , but I just wanted to make a statement in general to this.

While grace IS an unmerited favor God still has had specific commands. I would think the the book of James explains pretty well James 2:14-26.

Also, if one is REALLY opposed to the whole works idea they may even want to consider looking at this verses here John 6:29

Seems like even belief is a work according to our Lord.

Works are a display/product of faith and salvation, not a pre-requisite of salvation. Faith is a gift from God. A dead person has no faith, no works, before God regenerates their heart.

 

[Acts2:38]

Works are a display/product of faith and salvation, not a pre-requisite of salvation. Faith is a gift from God. A dead person has no faith, no works, before God regenerates their heart.

Now that I can see where you stand. "Let us reason together".

Works are a display/product of faith and salvation, not a pre-requisite of salvation.

This is wrong and please allow me to show you.

In order to have salvation, one must have belief. Belief is faith. Definition: "trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something." It is a work too John 6:29

If you do not believe, you cannot be saved. Example verse: Mark 16:16

However, if you have belief, are you just going to sit there and say "I believe" but do nothing else such as coming together at the first of every week and doing the Lords Supper in remembrance? James 2:18

No my good friend. You cannot obtain salvation without first believing. To say otherwise is to go against what scripture clearly has shown you.

Faith is a gift from God.

Faith and grace are different. Having faith is a persons first step toward their salvation. Grace is completely different here. It can be explained with this verse here: John 3:16.

That is one of the most abused verses in the bible. People think that it says "WILL" be saved. That is not the case. It is "SHOULD" be which indicates conditions that need to be met.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

That is the unmerited "grace" that our Lord provides us, but we have to meet the conditions, faith being the first step.

A dead person has no faith, no works, before God regenerates their heart.

As stated before, you cannot be "regenerated" if you do not have faith first.

Questions:

How are you to repent, if you do not believe first?

How are you to be baptized for the remission of sins, if you do not repent and confess first?

How are you going to know to do ANY of this if you first do not even hear the word? (Romans 10:17).

Not only is it scriptural that one first hears, then believes, then repents and confesses, then is baptized, then remains faithful, but it is also logical. What you are claiming has no logic and reasoning whatsoever.

Maybe you can elaborate more, but I am pretty sure I understand your claim.

 

[SolomonVII]

Theory. Just theory right? "a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation" or basically speculation and/or conjuncture?

Forgive me for not taking these peoples word for it. I may not be a scientist, but I think I can discipher different writing styles in reading a book. All 5 of the first books, spare the last 8 verses because Moses was supposed dead before that point, are indeed one style writer.

Also, the people that have that theory of JEPD, and I read their stuff a little bit, believe that the bible contradicts itself. That right there in a nut shell, tells me these scientists are a joke, since they don't believe the bible in the first place.

I think the proper term that is used for it is hypothesis.
Some people who find the hypothesis intriguing are atheists. Some are believers. Some of those believers see contradictions. Others understand that Scripture is from the Holy Spirit, and does not contradict itself, even if the words are seemingly giving two different accounts.
That would be the same though, whoever the human authors would tend out to be.
......Holy Spirit speaks to us through the writings of human hands and according to human understanding....
I like that concept of Holy Scripture rather than the Angelic Dictation concept of Koran actually. It is so much more fitting to an understanding of a God who takes on our humanity and becomes perfected through suffering.

Different books of the Bible already have different authors attibuted to them, so it is not as if the tradition of Moses writing the Bible is required believing. It is Jewish traditional understanding of the origins of the Pentateuch, and that is all it is.

There was this one Jewish rabbi that once had a online course on the Bible and the things he was able to do with the bible were nothing short of amazing. In the end, he could not believe that JEPD could be true, because the themes and the connectivity of the entire Pentatuech were just too detailed for him to believe that the could have been the result of disparate re-tellings of the same stories from different cultural traditions being interwoven together into a seamless writing that exists today.
For me though, that would not be a problem. The seamlessness could be explained by the final work being sewn together by a single editor, often conjectured to be Jeremiah.
Or, very possibly, the seamlessness and connectivity comes about through the Holy Spirit himself, blessing what human hands have made with all those amazing inner messages and connections within the Bible that are constantly being discovered by believers even until this day.
If anything believing in the Bible of JEPD makes the Biible even more miraculous than it would be if Moses was the sole writer.

 

[Acts2:38]

I think the proper term that is used for it is hypothesis.

Yes. Therefore they shouldn't pass it off as fact. From the little I did read, it sounded like they want to pass it as absolute fact. But like you said too, its only hypothesis, while to me, also mixed with speculation and conjecture.

......Holy Spirit speaks to us through the writings of human hands and according to human understanding....

A verses talks about this subject 2 Peter 1:20-21. Sure, human hands jotted down the words, but it was those men who were "moved" by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, the scriptures true author is God, whom had these other people write down the words throughout the generations.

 

[JackRT]

Origins of Indonesian Hobbits finally revealed
Date:
April 21, 2017
Source:
Australian National University
Summary:
The most comprehensive study on the bones of Homo floresiensis, a species of tiny human discovered on the Indonesian island of Flores in 2003, has found that they most likely evolved from an ancestor in Africa and not from Homo erectus as has been widely believed.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170421084917.htm