What do we gain?

[Desk trauma]

I'm in favor of decriminalizing all drugs but it would only work if the State provides those drugs cheaply

Just like the state has to force the production of cheap beer and liquor because producers inflate their prices now leaving alcoholics scrambling to afford booze.

Wait, that's now happening...

And what became of indefinite involuntary commitment and forced labor for drug users?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No. Some do - and those instances are what I am talking about.

Ok. So, in those instances, only the victims of those crimes should get compassion?
So addicts that haven't committed crimes to support their addiction (usually rich people, like Kurt Cobain and the many other heroin addicts from the 90's grunge scene), should get compassion and get treatment, but poor people desperate enough to engage in crime... should not?

Off topic.

I don't see how...
You literally suggested to make compassion conditional on wheter or not the addicts also committed crimes.

So, why only for addicts and not for other criminals?
Is breaking the law then a good enough reason to withhold health care?

I'm sorry, I can't help it that you seem to have build this web of inconsistency.
I'm just taking your argumentation logic and seeing where it leads us.

The comment I was responding to was talking about compassion for the victims.

No actually.... It was talking about "saving compassion for the victims". Which means "no compassion for the addict and ONLY compassion for the victims of crimes committed by addicts".

Perhaps you misunderstood and you wish to reformulate?

Avoiding ignoring or villainizing those who have been victimized by addicts should be of greater importance than treatment of the perp.

I never once said that we should ignore victims of crimes. Any crimes.

Again, this is some species of a false dichotomy. It's not an "either / or" situation.
There's no reason why couldn't show compassion to both addicts as well as crime victims.
There's also no reason why we couldn't help a person's addiction while at the same time also taking that person to court if (s)he commited a crime.

The addictive actions of both groups are similar.

No, they aren't.

Drug addiction is an entirely different species.

Not to mention that the word "pedophile" doesn't imply any kind of addiction.

 

[Dave-W]

Ok. So, in those instances, only the victims of those crimes should get compassion?
So addicts that haven't committed crimes to support their addiction (usually rich people, like Kurt Cobain and the many other heroin addicts from the 90's grunge scene), should get compassion and get treatment, but poor people desperate enough to engage in crime... should not?

Where did I say "only?" What frequently happens is that the focus is on the perp and the victim gets victimized all over again in the legal system. THAT is what I am writing against.

I never once said that we should ignore victims of crimes. Any crimes.

Except in our legal system that is exactly what happens.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Just because we help addicts, doesn't mean we can't or don't help others.

The State helps addicts, family and friends help victims. The cost of aid to addicts is enormous but little or no restitution is provided to the victims. This is true throughout the legal system. The State collects fines and imposes prison time as if they were the victims of crime, while the true victims are just SOL.

Consider how silly this is.

Judge: "You have been convicted of a crime against society and must pay fines of $$$ and spend such and such time in prison."

The judge should have said, "You have been convicted of beating and robbing so-and-so. You will therefore pay all his medical bills and restore what you stole-times-three. You will also pay the costs of your arrest, trial, and time in prison."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How horrible.

Really? I should become a drug addict so I can understand addiction? How would that help addicts?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The bulk of the horrors, violence, crime, contaminated product, are products of prohibition itself just as they were during alcohol prohibition. It makes no sense to complain about them while supporting the system that makes them possible.

So let's legalize drugs if that will solve the problem.

 

[Desk trauma]

So let's legalize drugs if that will solve the problem.

Quite the change of position from involuntary commitment and forced labor.

Anyhow.

It would solve the violence and reduce the harm to users as well as the public.

 

[bhsmte]

Pedophiles are addicted to having sexual relations with children.

Explain then, why my mentioning nicotine addiction, was apples to oranges?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Quite the change of position from involuntary commitment and forced labor.

Anyhow.

It would solve the violence and reduce the harm to users as well as the public.

I asked questions which of course revealed my attitude, but I didn't establish a position.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Explain then, why my mentioning nicotine addiction, was apples to oranges?

Nicotine addiction isn't illegal, and usually harms only the smoker or dipper (although it is a serious national health problem).

 

[Desk trauma]

Nicotine addiction isn't illegal, and usually harms only the smoker or dipper (although it is a serious national health problem).

Most substance use and abuse only physically harms the user the only distraction is the arbitrary "but it's illegal!"

As I keep asking would you or those you know who were addicted to legal substances been helped or better off if you had been made a felon for their use?

 

[bhsmte]

Nicotine addiction isn't illegal, and usually harms only the smoker or dipper (although it is a serious national health problem).

When it comes to being addicted to a drug, do you think your body cares if the drug is legal or not?

 

[Dave-W]

Explain then, why my mentioning nicotine addiction, was apples to oranges?

When was the last time you heard of a nicotine addict (chain smoker) holding up someone on the street or knocking off a liquor store to get another fix?

And when was the last time you heard that about an opioid addict?

 

[bhsmte]

When was the last time you heard of a nicotine addict (chain smoker) holding up someone on the street or knocking off a liquor store to get another fix?

And when was the last time you heard that about an opioid addict?

The discussion was about treatment of the addiction, not about other factors. It has been known for a long time, that from a psychological and physiologic standpoint, nicotine addiction, is a potent one.

 

[Desk trauma]

When was the last time you heard of a nicotine addict (chain smoker) holding up someone on the street or knocking off a liquor store to get another fix?

And when was the last time you heard that about an opioid addict?

When was the last time you saw cigarettes for sale at $20 per cigarette?

 

[Dave-W]

When was the last time you saw cigarettes for sale at $20 per cigarette?

I remember when they were 25 cents a pack in a vending machine.

 

[Desk trauma]

I remember when they were 25 cents a pack in a vending machine.

I remember twenty five cent sodas and eighty nine cent gasoline. Now moving back from memory lane yo the topic...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Most substance use and abuse only physically harms the user the only distraction is the arbitrary "but it's illegal!"

As I keep asking would you or those you know who were addicted to legal substances been helped or better off if you had been made a felon for their use?

If I committed a felony, for whatever reason, I am a felon.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

When it comes to being addicted to a drug, do you think your body cares if the drug is legal or not?

The topic is the shouldering of responsibility for the cost of addiction treatment and crime associated with it.

 

[bhsmte]

If I committed a felony, for whatever reason, I am a felon.

I will ask again, does your body care whether a drug addiction is with a legal, or illegal drug?