What do we gain?

[quatona]

Studying why people get addicted is just another trip down the rabbit hole. People aren't punished for being addicts, but for crimes they commit.

So why didn´t you start a thread about crimes, instead of a thread about drug addiction?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Studying why people get addicted is just another trip down the rabbit hole.

I'ld say that if the goal is to combat addiction and prevent it in the future, it might be a good idea to try and understand the underlying causes first.

People aren't punished for being addicts, but for crimes they commit.

But you also claimed that those crimes are a direct result of the addiction. So if we would assume that that's the case, then preventing/combatting addiction would prevent those crimes as well.

And again we come to a point where it would be kind of helpfull to actually understand the thing you are going to try and prevent. Because how do you prevent/cure things of which you "haven't got the foggiest" idea what causes them in the first place?

We could do a never ending study on why people steal or kill as well.

Indeed. And in doing so, we would gain better insights on those matters and then use that knowledge to combat it.

You really don't like gathering knowledge so that we can make informed decisions, do you?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I thought that was called second hand smoke. Third hand smoke would be second hand smoke passed on to a third person by the second person.

LOL!!!!!

Ow my, that's embarassing.
Yes... you are, off course, correct.

My bad

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'ld say that if the goal is to combat addiction and prevent it in the future, it might be a good idea to try and understand the underlying causes first.



But you also claimed that those crimes are a direct result of the addiction. So if we would assume that that's the case, then preventing/combatting addiction would prevent those crimes as well.

And again we come to a point where it would be kind of helpfull to actually understand the thing you are going to try and prevent. Because how do you prevent/cure things of which you "haven't got the foggiest" idea what causes them in the first place?



Indeed. And in doing so, we would gain better insights on those matters and then use that knowledge to combat it.

You really don't like gathering knowledge so that we can make informed decisions, do you?

Does anyone know what causes addiction "in the first place"? Is the "first place" the first time drugs were used; the time when the boyfriend or girlfriend broke up with them, when they were rebuffed by someone, when they lost their job, when they were peer pressured into taking drugs, when their dog died, or when they just wanted to get high, etc. etc. etc.? I see a big fat rabbit hole here. There are as many reasons as there are addicts. The important thing is that they are now a pain in the ass for society.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So why didn´t you start a thread about crimes, instead of a thread about drug addiction?

Would you follow me there just to gripe?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Does anyone know what causes addiction "in the first place"? Is the "first place" the first time drugs were used; the time when the boyfriend or girlfriend broke up with them, when they were rebuffed by someone, when they lost their job, when they were peer pressured into taking drugs, when their dog died, or when they just wanted to get high, etc. etc. etc.? I see a big fat rabbit hole here. There are as many reasons as there are addicts. The important thing is that they are now a pain in the ass for society.

Ow boy....
Do you act like this on purpose?

We were talking about the fact that some people are more prone to addiction then others.
There are reasons why that is the case. There are underlying causes for why some people get addicted more easily the others and some even not at all (depending on subject, off course).

I know people who have chain-smoked for 10+ years and succeeded in quiting overnight, cold turkey without any problems. It's as if they weren't ever addicted in the first place.

While I know other people who have been smoking 5 cigs per day only for just a year or so and who just don't succeed in stopping, or who at least have weeks of physical issues as a result of the shortage of nicotine.

There's all kinds of physical as well as psychological factors that come into play here.

 

[quatona]

Would you follow me there just to gripe?

Try to string together a coherent OP, and we will see.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Try to string together a coherent OP, and we will see.

My topics are only incoherent if you cover your ears and go "Lalalalalalalalala I'mnotlisteningtoyou!"

 

[OldWiseGuy]

We were talking about the fact that some people are more prone to addiction then others.

I'm not talking about that, you are. The topic of my OP is how long are we going to put up with these jerks.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

....by helping drug addicts, beside feeling good? We now have an epidemic of dangerous heroin use with hundreds dying each month across the country, costing millions that we don't have. Shouldn't we, as a society, just let them reap the fruit of their bad decisions? Of course family and friends can spend their money, time, and emotions if they choose, but why should the nation go bankrupt trying save every lost soul?

What was done in the 80s to proactively address the crack cocaine crisis?

There is your answer.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Why don't addicts seek help rather than committing crimes? It seems like a conscious decision to avoid being helped. This defines them as criminals with an addiction.

Complicated issue.

People suck in general, so it isn't like they could actually go to someone and ask for help - without being severely and unnecessarily judged.

The high you get from drugs allows some people to forget how cappy of a world this is. And, if you can make it day to day just getting drugs, getting high, repeat - and all your "wants"are met - then, there is no desire to leave it.

It isn't an avoidance of seeking help; it is they know that most people won't give up two minutes to help them based on what they have done, and who they are.

Everyone does "something" to keep their mind off of the obvious - that this entire world is very close to he'll for many peoplr, and most of us are powerless to change the full dynamics despite being told we control our destinies.

Some people work out, do caffeine, smoke, drink, hike, own animals, drugs, hyperfocus, etc. Everyone has a vice for which they feel is justifiable.

Drug use just happens to be a vice that is easily visible and discernable - and therefore one of the first types of vices to be judged.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

LOL!!!!!

Ow my, that's embarassing.
Yes... you are, off course, correct.

My bad

Waddyamean I'm "off course?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Complicated issue.

People suck in general, so it isn't like they could actually go to someone and ask for help - without being severely and unnecessarily judged.

The high you get from drugs allows some people to forget how cappy of a world this is. And, if you can make it day to day just getting drugs, getting high, repeat - and all your "wants"are met - then, there is no desire to leave it.

It isn't an avoidance of seeking help; it is they know that most people won't give up two minutes to help them based on what they have done, and who they are.

Everyone does "something" to keep their mind off of the obvious - that this entire world is very close to he'll for many peoplr, and most of us are powerless to change the full dynamics despite being told we control our destinies.

Some people work out, do caffeine, smoke, drink, hike, own animals, drugs, hyperfocus, etc. Everyone has a vice for which they feel is justifiable.

Drug use just happens to be a vice that is easily visible and discernable - and therefore one of the first types of vices to be judged.

The social catastrophe at all levels caused by drug use dwarfs most of our other vices (although alcoholism is right up there).

You are correct that most people "suck in general". I have been a rental property manager and owner for 40 years and can attest to that. My experience with "sucky" people is only rivaled by the police, psychiatrists, and priests.

 

[Desk trauma]

The social catastrophe at all levels caused by drug use dwarfs most of our other vices (although alcoholism is right up there).

It's not very right up there, it's head and shoulders above all other substances.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's not very right up there, it's head and shoulders above all other substances.

Taken individually sure, but not as a whole. Alcoholics drink whatever 'flavor' alcohol is available, but it's all alcohol. Drug addicts use a wide variety of drugs, so those drugs can reasonably be lumped into one category: illegal drugs. Addicts are frequently found (in a crisis) with several kinds of drugs in their systems, although both classes of addicts cross over and use both substances ( I didn't see that category in the graph).

 

[Desk trauma]

Taken individually sure, but not as a whole. Alcoholics drink whatever 'flavor' alcohol is available, but it's all alcohol. Drug addicts use a wide variety of drugs, so those drugs can reasonably be lumped into one category: illegal drugs. Addicts are frequently found (in a crisis) with several kinds of drugs in their systems, although both classes of addicts cross over and use both substances ( I didn't see that category in the graph).

If you look at the link it is broken down by substance and that alcohol causes more harm than any of the others by a wide margin, but it's not illegal so it's ok right?

Hey however you need to move the goalposts to support your stance.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If you look at the link it is broken down by substance and that alcohol causes more harm than any of the others by a wide margin, but it's not illegal so it's ok right?

Hey however you need to move the goalposts to support your stance.

I said the "social catastrophe at all levels", not just what is shown on your graph. For example, how much money is spent on drug enforcement, adjudication, incarceration, etc. compared to that of alcoholism?

 

[Desk trauma]

I said the "social catastrophe at all levels", not just what is shown on your graph. For example, how much money is spent on drug enforcement, adjudication, incarceration, etc. compared to that of alcoholism?

The comparison would only work if both had similar legal sanction for production, distribution and possession.

 

[brinny]

This song might not make sense at first sight. I've never been an addict, but i HAVE been in the "dark" and lost, my soul "wrapped in chains" so to speak. It was a God-send to me, the intervention. It's almost a guarantee that drug addicts, especially if heroine is involved, loathe themselves. Not sure how to say this, but we "stand in" for them with whatever is available, including prayers for God to intervene. We plead for them, even as they possibly cannot plead for themselves and may not believe, at the moment, that there is a "light" at the end of that very dark tunnel.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

The social catastrophe at all levels caused by drug use dwarfs most of our other vices (although alcoholism is right up there).

You are correct that most people "suck in general". I have been a rental property manager and owner for 40 years and can attest to that. My experience with "sucky" people is only rivaled by the police, psychiatrists, and priests.

Well, you said it best: the social implications are catastrophic.

But, society qualifies it's errors and evil so that wrong doing isn't clear: there is a societal implanted gray area. This allows us to feel good about our own degeneracy, and maintain the illusion that we have control of our entire lives.

I consider drug dagerous drug use to be as bad as lying to children about Santa clause. Lies we think are acceptable, or "white" are as destructive, if not more destructive than mechanical ways of destroying yourself.

The drug issue has been bad for a very long time (e.g. cracking in the 80s.) It was perfectly fine to threat these undesirables as an outside, anomalous social fringe - even though it really wasnt.

Now, it has become a problem; part of that "humans suck" thing goes to how we, humans, tend to help other people when it benefits us, or when a situation is dire.

Otherwise, everyone else is too busy being the god of the own universe. In 25 years, it won't be drugs; it will be a philosophy.