Madagascar and Australia, a question for creationists.

[Colter]

"Although the evolution of vegetable life can be traced into animal life, and though there have been found graduated series of plants and animals which progressively lead up from the most simple to the most complex and advanced organisms, you will not be able to find such connecting links between the great divisions of the animal kingdom nor between the highest of the prehuman animal types and the dawn men of the human races. These so-called "missing links" will forever remain missing, for the simple reason that they never existed." UB 55

 

[AV1611VET]

Jesus didn't fulfill the erroneous expectations of a Jewish Messiah.

Why would He? should He fulfill the erroneous expectations of scientists too (Matthew 4)?

The Jews have scripture based reasons that they rejected him,

Truncated Scripture.

Jesus fulfilled 109 of 333 prophecies, and He will fulfill the remaining 209 at His second coming.

In addition, the Jews and scientists don't believe the New Testament is the word of God.

... hence the danger of calling the writings of man the Word of God.

Mainly Jews and scientists would consider that a danger.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

The written word is invariably human and limited.

Does that include the anonymously-written Chicago-based UB ... written circa 1924?

 

[Colter]

Why would He? should He fulfill the erroneous expectation of scientists too (Matthew 4)?Truncated Scripture.

Jesus fulfilled 109 of 333 prophecies, and He will fulfill the remaining 209 at His second coming.

In addition, the Jews and scientists don't believe the New Testament is the word of God.Mainly Jews and scientists would consider that a danger.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.Does that include the anonymously-written Chicago-based UB ... written circa 1924?

Yes, and had you read the book that you disagree with, you would know what it is that you disagree with.

Jesus was forced into many of the so called prophecies by his Jewish followers who sought to justify leaving their faith for the new religion of Jesus. Many of the OT prophecies will never come true as they were the rantings of religious fanatics incorporated into the exaggerated history of the priestly redactors.

"Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve." UB 1955

101:4.3 Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

101:4.4 In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.

101:4.5 Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:

1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.
2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.
3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.
4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.
5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Jesus was forced into many of the so called prophecies by his Jewish followers ...

Jesus was not forced to do anything against His will.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Jesus was not forced to do anything against His will.

He wished for the cross sacrifice to pass over him so he didn't have to.

 

[AV1611VET]

He wished for the cross sacrifice to pass over him so he didn't have to.

I understand where you're coming from here, but let's set this record straight, shall we?

1. Jesus volunteered for the cross.

Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

2. He said ...

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

3. He also said ...

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Not going to the cross was not an option.

 

[Colter]

Jesus was not forced to do anything against His will.

Forced as in, his followers interpreted OT prophecies to apply to Jesus. There was enough there to lead people to expect the coming of a "deliverer", and had they interpreted those teachings spiritually instead of a material kingdom with a Messiah-king to sit in David's seat, then they would have been better prepared. But the fact is he didn't, he left and has been gone 2000 years. That wasn't in the expectations of the Jewish Messiah.

 

[Colter]

He wished for the cross sacrifice to pass over him so he didn't have to.

The cross wasn't a sacrifice, it was an experiential requirement for the incarnation. He lived the life and experienced the death of one of his own created beings. Had the Jews accepted Jesus' original gospel, he would have simply relinquished his material body and left. But that was unlikely to happen as religious minds can be so stubborn and cruel.

 

[AV1611VET]

Forced as in, his followers interpreted OT prophecies to apply to Jesus. There was enough there to lead people to expect the coming of a "deliverer", and had they interpreted those teachings spiritually instead of a material kingdom with a Messiah-king to sit in David's seat, then they would have been better prepared. But the fact is he didn't, he left and has been gone 2000 years. That wasn't in the expectations of the Jewish Messiah.

Are you bragging or complaining, Colter?

For the record, the Jews couldn't reconcile the Psalm 72/Isaiah 11 depiction of the Messiah with the Psalm 22/Isaiah 53 depiction of the Messiah, so they concluded that there were two Messiah's coming: one weak and the other strong.

When Jesus presented His credentials as the Psalm 22/Isaiah 53 Messiah, they said, "Away with Him!"

Again, let me point this out:

The Dispensation of Grace, a period of time between the dispensations of Law & Kingdom, was unknown even to the angels.

It started when the veil of the temple was rent in twain and will end at Armageddon.

All you're doing is using their oversight to try and make some valid point against God's timeline.

And yes, it's hard to call it an "oversight," when even the angels didn't know about it; but what's their excuse now?

 

[Colter]

Are you bragging or complaining, Colter?

For the record, the Jews couldn't reconcile the Psalm 72/Isaiah 11 depiction of the Messiah with the Psalm 22/Isaiah 53 depiction of the Messiah, so they concluded that there were two Messiah's coming: one weak and the other strong.

When Jesus presented His credentials as the Psalm 22/Isaiah 53 Messiah, they said, "Away with Him!"

Again, let me point this out:

The Dispensation of Grace, a period of time between the dispensations of Law & Kingdom, was unknown even to the angels.

It started when the veil of the temple was rent in twain and will end at Armageddon.

All you're doing is using their oversight to try and make some valid point against God's timeline.

And yes, it's hard to call it an "oversight," when even the angels didn't know about it; but what's their excuse now?

It was just a simple case of stumbling over their own preconceived ideas. Jesus warned us not the put the new wine into the old wineskins. Basically we were to forget what we thought we knew and start over, to trust him like unspoiled children. The Messiah of the Jews (based on their own competing expectations) will never come nor will Jesus return to smash up the world and dip people in a lake of fire, put away Satan, get him back out again etc.

Jesus already established the Kingdom of Heaven on earth 2000 years ago. Its a spiritual fellowship of believers, and while the institutional church became a temporary and stunting substitute, the spiritual kingdom based solidly on the unadulterated teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, will eventually transform the world.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Messiah of the Jews (based on their own competing expectations) will never come nor will Jesus return to smash up the world and dip people in a lake of fire, put away Satan, get him back out again etc.

Satan would love that to be true.

That would then leave 209 prophecies unfulfilled, one of which is that all Israel will be saved, when they look on Him whom they have pierced.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Someone once asked what keeps Satan going, even though he knows the Scriptures better than anyone; and the answer is a good one:

All he has to do is get ONE SINGLE PROPHECY to fail or be left unfulfilled (let alone 209), and he wins.

And that Israel prophecy is doosey of a prophecy.

 

[Colter]

Satan would love that to be true.

That would then leave 209 prophecies unfulfilled, one of which is that all Israel will be saved, when they look on Him whom they have pierced.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Someone once asked what keeps Satan going, even though he knows the Scriptures better than anyone; and the answer is a good one:

All he has to do is get ONE SINGLE PROPHECY to fail or be left unfulfilled (let alone 209), and he wins.

And that Israel prophecy is doosey of a prophecy.

Satan is gone and Tyre is still there. Prophecy invalidated!

 

[AV1611VET]

Satan is gone and Tyre us still there. Prophecy invalidated!

This is wishful thinking among the worldly educated.

 

[Colter]

This is wishful thinking among the worldly educated.

Its revelation to those stuck in the past. Satan never was a God.

 

[dad]

Jesus didn't fulfill the erroneous expectations of a Jewish Messiah. The Jews have scripture based reasons that they rejected him,

Not at all. They knew Who they were killing. If they were blind they would have no sin.

hence the danger of calling the writings of man the Word of God. The written word is invariably human and limited.

If we know Jesus is God, and He gave us His words, then right there we know they are the word of God!

 

[Colter]

Not at all. They knew Who they were killing. If they were blind they would have no sin.

If we know Jesus is God, and He gave us His words, then right there we know they are the word of God!

His words would be the word of God.

 

[dad]

His words would be the word of God.

2 Peter: "Know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (1:20-21).

 

[Colter]

2 Peter: "Know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (1:20-21).

That's a mans opinion and obveously wrong, the scripture books are full of contradictions and errors.

 

[dad]

That's a mans opinion and obveously wrong, the scripture books are full of contradictions and errors.

How about the prophets like Isaiah that Jesus quoted? Are they just men who were wrong too? By the way if Peter was wrong, and Jesus had promised to send the spirit to him so that he would remember it to write it down, would that make Jesus wrong too?

 

[Colter]

How about the prophets like Isaiah that Jesus quoted? Are they just men who were wrong too? By the way if Peter was wrong, and Jesus had promised to send the spirit to him so that he would remember it to write it down, would that make Jesus wrong too?

That's a good and fair question. Jesus quoted what was true and representative of his identity and teachings. I quote truths from the Bible when it serves a purpose, I don't quote what I think is untrue.

Jesus didn't come down to Reform Judaism. His spiritual teachings replaced the old and inferior ideology without the need to criticize the older ways.