Revelation 12: 1&2

[Meowzltov]

There are two Israels in Romans 9:6-8. There is an Israel of the flesh and an Israel of the promise.

The "Children of the Promise" are NEVER called Israel.

 

[Meowzltov]

Based on Galatians 3:16-29 we are Abraham's seed through Christ. Matthew 3:9 and 1 Timothy 1:4 make it plain that genealogy is not a factor in the New Covenant.

None of these verses call the Church "Israel." And Israel concerns the Mosaic Covenant, not the New Covenant.

 

[Meowzltov]

There are two Israels in Romans 9:6-8. There is an Israel of the flesh and an Israel of the promise.

the "Children of Promise" are never called Israel.

 

[dfw69]

/

 

[dfw69]

None of these verses call the Church "Israel." And Israel concerns the Mosaic Covenant, not the New Covenant.

But a time will come when god will establish a new covenant with the house of Judah and house of Israel that they may be one house under the messiah

As for the church, if we are called Abraham seed what does that make us? Simply heirs of the promises of Abrahamic covenant? Issac covenant?

 

[parousia70]

The NT talks about Israel all the time and its not talking about the Church.

That's like saying The faithful remnant Jews in the wilderness with Moses who survived to enter the promised land are NOT true Israel, but the wicked thousands that were slain in the wilderness were true Israel.

 

[Jachin Simeon]

What's a Cheribium? Oh, did you mean Cherubim? But wait, you said "a" meaning singular, which would be "Cherub" not "Cherubim".
Obviously you do not know how to spell Cherubim, the difference between the singular and the plural, and much less their role.
Nowhere in the Bible will you find a Cherub delivering/communicating messages from God to men(Israelites included).

It is therefore reasonable to conclude that you are fabricating this false story. Cleanup in aisle 1, please.

When I was a young man I served in the Army. During my time of service I saw 24 countries and 5 continents. I learned very early on that how we call a people or nation is not what they call themselves. I asked him because I wasn't sure if he was a Seraphim or a Cherubim, couldn't count his wings because of the dark cloak he wore. He told me he was a Cheribium and I asked him how to spell it and this is what he gave me. I asked him about the different spelling and he explained that Cheribium was singular and Cherubim was plural. His language, his pronunciation and his spelling of it. Correct in my Biblical English language version of the Bible, no of course not. But in his, yes. Cherub is a Greek word and he doesn't want to associate with it because it was perverted to mean the Greek god of love. He doesn't want to ever imply he is a god.
But even in our language there are currently arguments about spelling and meaning and usage of words because of being translated from Ancient Hebrew to Greek and finally to English. Do we throw out the entire Bible and the Gospel of Jesus Christ for this? God forbid! No we take everything on faith.

 

[Jachin Simeon]

Hmmm... I guess then I could tell you the distance Between Seattle and Chicago is only 70 Miles. That there's happens to be a 2000 mile gap between the 69th & 70th Mile does not change the fact that the two cities are only 70 Miles apart, right?

That's weak and you know it. A mile is a mile and time is time. But since you went at it that way let's try it in truth Brother. Let's say you and I are Walking from Seattle to Chicago. But you tell me your mom lives on the route we are taking and we are going to stop and spend a night with her. Based on the information you gave me I know it's a 2000 mile walk. But I don't know at what mile your mother's house is? Same answer different scenario. You can know the coarse measurement of something and not know the fine. You can know you're going to war somewhere and at a rough time frame and the General still is the only one who knows exactly where and when. Does that mean the General doesn't tell his men when to be ready when the time draws near? Of course not. Your argument doesn't hold water friend and you know it. Have a blessed day Brother in Christ

 

[parousia70]

That's weak and you know it.

Rather it's strong and you know it.

Does that mean the General doesn't tell his men when to be ready when the time draws near?

Since we have myriad of scriptural examples of the Generals (the apostles) telling their contemporaries that the time had drawn near 1900+ years ago, it is your argument that is weak and I think you know it.

 

[Jachin Simeon]

Rather it's strong and you know it.



Since we have myriad of scriptural examples of the Generals (the apostles) telling their contemporaries that the time had drawn near 1900+ years ago, it is your argument that is weak and I think you know it.

But we are not speaking of men are we? This is spiritual concerning what an angel knows and does not know. Angels know alot but yet they are not God the Father all knowing.
My point is it's common sense to know about events coming up without knowing exact date or hours. This angel is a member of God's Host, his army. Of course he's gonna know years and seasons of events. Armies prepare in advance, that is Biblical friend. You are going at this too simplistic and using the Bible to restrict the spiritual world. True they have rules they must follow. Some of the Questions I've asked of him I've had to wait until he got permission from God to answer me. And some could not be told and even the Questions were never to be repeated to another man. But what he has told me he has been completely authorized to do so. Angels are only allowed to speak to a person for God's purposes. If you ever are fortunate enough to see one and you Biblically challenge it with 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3 he will only bow deeply in response if he's not authorized to speak with you. There are a handful in the world with this opportunity extended to them but all with a purpose.
Can't sit here and try to point this out anymore to you anymore. I've used examples in this world to show the common sense of it. Others in the Bible did the same. You need to leave off the milk and get to the meat brother. But if you don't have Faith to receive it you can't. It's very simple.

 

[BABerean2]

The "Children of the Promise" are NEVER called Israel.

Rom 9:6　 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,　
(There are two types of Israelites in this verse. One of the flesh and one of the promise.)


Act 2:22　 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—
(Three thousand Israelites came to faith on the Day of Pentecost.)
　


Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—　
(The New Covenant was made with Israel and Judah.)


The Olive Tree of Romans chapter 11 is made up of both Israelite and Gentile branches grafted together into one tree, which is a symbol of the New Covenant Church.
.

 

[Meowzltov]

As for the church, if we are called Abraham seed what does that make us?

It makes you children of God, just as Scripture says.

 

[Meowzltov]

That's like saying The faithful remnant Jews in the wilderness with Moses who survived to enter the promised land are NOT true Israel, but the wicked thousands that were slain in the wilderness were true Israel.

What does this have to do with the fact that the Church is not Israel?

 

[dfw69]

It makes you children of God, just as Scripture says.

Yes... but it also says we are Abraham descendants and heirs to the promises to Abraham through Yahshua adoption Galatians 3:29

Yahshua is both son of god and son of David , son of Abraham ... we have received adoption by faith through Yahshua and are counted as both sons of God and sons of Abraham by our adoption in Yahshua our father Galatians 4:5-6

 

[Meowzltov]

Rom 9:6　 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,　
(There are two types of Israelites in this verse. One of the flesh and one of the promise.)

You have jumped to conclusions here. The verse does not say what you say that it says. It does not say that there is an Israel "of the promise."

 

[Meowzltov]

Act 2:22　 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—
(Three thousand Israelites came to faith on the Day of Pentecost.)

Okay. So what?

 

[Meowzltov]

Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—　
(The New Covenant was made with Israel and Judah.)

The New Covenant made with Israel is yet to come. IN this prophecy, they will all know God. Is that now true? Of course not. People still have to be taught about God. So this prophecy has not yet come true.

 

[Meowzltov]

The Olive Tree of Romans chapter 11 is made up of both Israelite and Gentile branches grafted together into one tree, which is a symbol of the New Covenant Church.
.

But what IS the olive tree? It is not Israel. It is the Oracle of God. At one time, Israel was God's Oracle. Now the Church is God's Oracle. But it doesn't make the Church Israel.

 

[W2L]

But what IS the olive tree? It is not Israel. It is the Oracle of God. At one time, Israel was God's Oracle. Now the Church is God's Oracle. But it doesn't make the Church Israel.

Forgive my ignorance, but i must ask. Wouldn't the oracle of God be the Lord himself? Jesus says that there is only one teacher, the Christ.

 

[dfw69]

The New Covenant made with Israel is yet to come. IN this prophecy, they will all know God. Is that now true? Of course not. People still have to be taught about God. So this prophecy has not yet come true.

Amen Israel wil come to terms with the new covenant and receive Yahshua as lord and savior and become a light to the world again for she will find favor and mercy and her sins forgiven when she is redeemed after the 70 "weeks" of Daniel 9:24-27 are completed