Can curse and prayer kill someone?

[John Hyperspace]

This reminds me of the time I was walking down a country road and saw a rooster chain-smoking cigarettes while leaning against an old wooden fence. Being curious I stopped and asked him why he had taken up the habit. "With all the stress on me, I needed something to take the edge off," he replied. "What's a rooster got to be stressed over?" I asked. "Are you daft?" he retorted. "If I'm not awake at the precise time so I can crow, then sun doesn't come up. The weight of the world is on my shoulders every single day." I thought about it for a minute, then said, "Keep up the good work. We're all depending on you."

The moral of the story? Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[Dave-W]

Regardless of whether or Ananias and Sapphira made it to heaven, it wasn't Peter who enacted a curse upon them.

Are you sure of that? If so, why?

Did not our Lord give Peter specifically the right to "bind and loose;" and that what ever he decided on that it would be done in Heaven?

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Are you sure of that? If so, why?

Did not our Lord give Peter specifically the right to "bind and loose;" and that what ever he decided on that it would be done in Heaven?

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

You might want to check the Greek on that; my sources say that the English translation skews the direction of the flow of authority and action in these kinds of verses.

 

[miknik5]

[
what is happening in this world?!

LORD forgive!

They truly do not know what they do!

 

[miknik5]

I was wishing for some people to die, so i was cursing them to die and also i was praying to God to die and after a few days later they really died.

Did they die because of my curse and prayer to God to die?

Pray and ask forgiveness
And ask the LORD not to hold this sin against you or to hold any sins against the person who died for this

Do you understand life for life?

If you believed in the LORD JESUS CHRIST , it was HIS LIFE for yours

But you were held to an understanding that your work is reconciling pointing all men to HIM and leaving all souls to HIS care

Pray and ask for forgiveness

The LORD was not with you in this

 

[~Anastasia~]

Pink is as said, an "Eastern Orthodox." So, if this is a Christian who is supposedly sending a curse, then we may assume that something isn't quite right with his/her underlying theological assumptions

I did not catch that the OP is tagged Eastern Orthodox.

But since this has been brought up, let me provide the only context likely from our Church.

No, we do NOT think about or pray curses on anyone.

The only thing one might expect from something like this happening is the following:

Satan and demons can have knowledge we do not have. I do NOT say they know the future - they don't. But they can know someone has a terminal condition, or that one person plans to kill another, or they may be actively trying to cause the death of someone (temptation to suicide, murder, drunk driving) though they can't know if they will be successful. Ultimately God alone is in control.

But ... they could take that knowledge, and further tempt someone else to think about that person's death, then tempt them into thinking it is their fault if it is successful. Satan is the father of lies, and seeks to kill and destroy in any way he can.

THAT is what the OP would probably be told, if she asked an EO source. Along with the fact that it is sinful to wish for the death of another, and repentance is needed for that.

There is no other EO connection, nor does this reflect our theology.

People should be careful in making assumptions, no matter what label a member on a forum attaches to their name. I've seen inaccurate representations of nearly every faith group.

I don't think the devil gets to do other than what God permits him to do, Dave. Maybe I'm wrong.

Also, the context of my response to Pink is in assuming that Pink is as said, an "Eastern Orthodox." So, if this is a Christian who is supposedly sending a curse, then we may assume that something isn't quite right with his/her underlying theological assumptions as they pertain to so-called "curses."

That's why I said it the way I said it.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Are you sure of that? If so, why?

Did not our Lord give Peter specifically the right to "bind and loose;" and that what ever he decided on that it would be done in Heaven?

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

Then, on top of the Greek text itself in the verse you quote, there is the overall context in which we find this verse (Matt. 16:19) situated. And when we take a broader, contextual scope by which to look at it, what do we find?:

1) We find that this binding/loosing motif is indeed given to Peter in Matthew 16:19...BUT then, Matthew almost immediately moves into an entire pericope that begins with showing how Peter fumbles the ball, right off the bat after being "approved" by Jesus. In Matthew 16:22, we see Jesus having to rebuke Peter as a "representation" of Satan. Of Satan? Yes, of Satan!

2) We find Jesus repeating the binding/loosing phrase just a couple of chapters afterword, too, in Matthew 18:18. This follows up the first passage in Matt. 16:19, and with this second articulation about binding/loosing power in Matthew 18:18, it ends with the parable of the Unforgiving Servant--which basically states that if we don't forgive others as God has forgiven them, then NEITHER will He forgive us. And this is tied into the binding/loosing context. Oh, yes it is!

3) We also find a couple of verses in John's Gospel that seem to summarize and reflect the same message and context in Matthew above, and Jesus says:

John 20:21-23

21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
​

So, I think that, as a Church overall, we need to be very, very careful with any kind of assumption that we can be dolling out curses as we think we see fit to do. Most likely, much of this is more the result of anger that leads to the cursing of other people...which should not be the case.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I did not catch that the OP is supposedly Eastern Orthodox.

But since this has been brought up, let me provide the only context likely from our Church.

No, we do NOT think about or pray curses on anyone.

The only thing one might expect from something like this happening is the following:

Satan and demons can have knowledge we do not have. I do NOT say they know the future - they don't. But they can know someone has a terminal condition, or that one person plans to kill another, or they may be actively trying to cause the death of someone (temptation to suicide, murder, drunk driving) though they can't know if they will be successful. Ultimately God alone is in control.

But ... they could take that knowledge, and further tempt someone else to think about that person's death, then tempt them into thinking it is their fault if it is successful. Satan is the father of lies, and seeks to kill and destroy in any way he can.

THAT is what the OP would probably be told, if she asked an EO source. Along with the fact that it is sinful to wish for the death of another, and repentance is needed for that.

There is no other "EO connection, nor does this reflect our theology.

People should be careful in making assumptions, no matter what label a member on a forum attaches to their name. I've seen inaccurate representations of nearly every faith group.

The "Eastern Orthodox" signifier is designated in the OP's Avatar box, Anastasia. However, I wasn't trying to delve into that specifically, but rather simply to point out that the OP "is" a Christian of one kind or another.

And you make some good points, Sis!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I was wishing for some people to die, so i was cursing them to die and also i was praying to God to die and after a few days later they really died.

Did they die because of my curse and prayer to God to die?

Hello Pink, and welcome to CF.

I answered your question here: Can curse and prayer kill someone? because someone questioned the Orthodox Church because you ask such questions. There's more detail there. But no, you didn't cause anyone's death. However, wishing death on someone is certainly a sin in itself, and if you are EO, you need to speak with your priest about this. He can both reassure you where needed, but also give you proper guidance.

By the way, I'm going to ask that your thread be moved, as this forum is meant only for asking for prayer.

And if you are EO, you might want to visit The Ancient Way, which is the EO forum here on CF. Especially if you are having such questions as this, as an Orthodox Christian. Fellowship from like-minded believers may be of benefit to you.

God be with you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The "Eastern Orthodox" signifier is designated in the OP's Avatar box, Anastasia. However, I wasn't trying to delve into that specifically, but rather simply to point out that the OP "is" a Christian of one kind or another.

And you make some good points, Sis!

Thanks for clarifying that!

I often cringe when I see posts from one kind of faith designation or another, knowing that what they say can be badly misunderstood to reflect on their tag, even "Christian" itself.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think Peter was letting them know of the Holy Spirit's judgement, not cursing them to die.

 

[Dave-W]

You might want to check the Greek on that; my sources say that the English translation skews the direction of the flow of authority and action in these kinds of verses.

You are looking at the wrong sources. Check with the Hebrew and Aramaic Jewish sources to find out what was meant by "binding" and "loosing." They were commonly understood Pharasaic terms.

Everyone who had grown up in a synagogue (that would be all of them) would understand.

 

[miknik5]

I did not catch that the OP is tagged Eastern Orthodox.

But since this has been brought up, let me provide the only context likely from our Church.

No, we do NOT think about or pray curses on anyone.

The only thing one might expect from something like this happening is the following:

Satan and demons can have knowledge we do not have. I do NOT say they know the future - they don't. But they can know someone has a terminal condition, or that one person plans to kill another, or they may be actively trying to cause the death of someone (temptation to suicide, murder, drunk driving) though they can't know if they will be successful. Ultimately God alone is in control.

But ... they could take that knowledge, and further tempt someone else to think about that person's death, then tempt them into thinking it is their fault if it is successful. Satan is the father of lies, and seeks to kill and destroy in any way he can.

THAT is what the OP would probably be told, if she asked an EO source. Along with the fact that it is sinful to wish for the death of another, and repentance is needed for that.

There is no other EO connection, nor does this reflect our theology.

People should be careful in making assumptions, no matter what label a member on a forum attaches to their name. I've seen inaccurate representations of nearly every faith group.

Thank you That gives comfort to my heart and I am sure to @pink1

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you That gives comfort to my heart and I am sure to @pink1

Thanks for clearing that up

You are most welcome.

Thank you for your graciousness.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You are looking at the wrong sources. Check with the Hebrew and Aramaic Jewish sources to find out what was meant by "binding" and "loosing." They were commonly understood Pharasaic terms.

Everyone who had grown up in a synagogue (that would be all of them) would understand.

Well, Dave. I understand what you're saying, and that's fine. But, I'm also pulling some info from the late Spiros Zodhiates, who was born in Greece, and also became an expert in ancient Greek.

You're right that the Hebrew and Aramaic sources have some cultural context which bear upon the meaning of binding/loosing, but I'm pointing directly to the Greek text itself of the verses under consideration, and Zodhiates indicates that the Greek has a little different tense and/or syntax than what the English translation of it expresses.

Anyway, we can wrap this up. I just think we shouldn't be 'setting curses' upon others as some kind of normative Christian thing we do. That's my view of it.


Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Dave-W]

You're right that the Hebrew and Aramaic sources have some cultural context which bear upon the meaning of binding/loosing,

In brief: Binding and Loosing were terms the Rabbis used to create something called halacha which was a set of easily understood rules designed to allow an unlearned student to obey Torah commands.

Every noted rabbi/teacher had his own halacha. What was "loosed" was permitted to do. What was "bound" was forbidden. It was a very powerful pronouncement when Our Lord told Peter that whatever he decided Heaven itself would back him.

but I'm pointing directly to the Greek text itself of the verses under consideration, and Zodhiates indicates that the Greek has a little different tense and/or syntax that what the English translation of it expresses.

That is always a problem translating into another language.

Anyway, we can wrap this up, I think. I just think we shouldn't think that 'setting curses' upon others is some kind of normative Christian thing to do. That's my view of it.

Agreed. We should "bless and curse not."

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

 

[miknik5]

You are most welcome.

Thank you for your graciousness.

My graciousness?
I am so glad for you and your post

 

[2PhiloVoid]

In brief: Binding and Loosing were terms the Rabbis used to create something called halacha which was a set of easily understood rules designed to allow an unlearned student to obey Torah commands.

Every noted rabbi/teacher had his own halacha. What was "loosed" was permitted to do. What was "bound" was forbidden. It was a very powerful pronouncement when Our Lord told Peter that whatever he decided Heaven itself would back him.


That is always a problem translating into another language.

Agreed. We should "bless and curse not."

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

It sounds like we're on similar pages, Dave. And thanks for running me through my paces; it's always good for me to have a useful challenge posed to me.

I hope I didn't come across as 'crass' in some of my posts above.

Appreciatively and best wishes,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Blade]

I was wishing for some people to die, so i was cursing them to die and also i was praying to God to die and after a few days later they really died.

Did they die because of my curse and prayer to God to die?

No. We as believers in Jesus Christ have power over the enemy "Satan" not man/woman. Ananias and Sapphire lied to God. To the sweet sweet Holy Spirit. The wages of sin is death.. no cures here.

So pink1 you should repent for when we do He is faithful and just forgive us and cleans us from all unrighteousness. For if we can not love our neighbour whom we seen... if we do not love them then love for the Father is not in us. But you did not have anything to do with what happen

 

[Dave-W]

I hope I didn't come across as 'crass' in some of my posts above.

No problems Bro!