Should Messianic Jews support Jerusalem Third Temple?

[miknik5]

In Acts 21, we see a Christian making a new vow, AFTER he had become a Christian, and Paul is going with him to help him with the sacrifice.

This was the post

This is what I responded to

 

[miknik5]

According to Acts 21, Paul thankfully didn't get to make that offering

Instead he was arrested

Acts 21:27
When the seven days (of this vow) were nearly completed

 

[miknik5]

Are we talking about figurative spiritual Jews, or are we talking about real Jews?

We're talking about those who are ONE in CHRIST

The PROMISE to Abraham was that he would be the father of many nations

Was it really Abraham's seed that GOD was pointing to from the beginning?

The promise to Abraham was before Abraham had done any of the workings of the law

Showing that the promise is based on GOD's call alone

A Jew is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly

We are talking about a JEW and GOD's WORD always pointed to higher and hidden SPIRITUAL TRUTHS

And not all of Israel are of ISRAEL

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL is not the same as earthly Israel

And a SPIRITUAL JEW IS A REAL JEW

 

[gadar perets]

Yes. But unless I am misrepresenting the poster these came into the temple after their hair was shaved meaning they were coming to be purified

They had finished their vow

I thought the poster was implying that they were making a vow

Correct. The poster was wrong about making a vow, especially about making a "new vow". They made a vow some unknown time prior to shaving.

 

[miknik5]

Correct. The poster was wrong about making a vow, especially about making a "new vow". They made a vow some unknown time prior to shaving.

I am amazed by this but I believe Paul shouldn't have taken this liberty and GOD stopped it

 

[miknik5]

And HE stopped it because it is wrong

 

[gadar perets]

According to Acts 21, Paul thankfully didn't get to make that offering

Instead he was arrested

Acts 21:27
When the seven days (of this vow) were nearly completed

Paul was not making the offering anyway since he did not take the vow. He was only helping the others pay for the animals to be offered.

 

[miknik5]

Correct. The poster was wrong about making a vow, especially about making a "new vow". They made a vow some unknown time prior to shaving.

Paul used the vow to validate himself before his Jewish brethren that he was following the law of Moses when he really wasn't and shouldn't have been since CHRIST fulfilled all these lower shadows which were ever and always pointing us to the HIGHER HIDDEN SPIRITUAL REALITIES found in CHRIST

It wasn't for him to allow this for the Jews at all

And before the seven days which were vowed, he was arrested

The sacrifices for these four men completing their vows was never made

 

[gadar perets]

I am amazed by this but I believe Paul shouldn't have taken this liberty and GOD stopped it

Had he not done as James requested, the false accusations against him would have been thought true.

 

[miknik5]

Paul was not making the offering anyway since he did not take the vow. He was only helping the others pay for the animals to be offered.

It shouldn't have been

 

[miknik5]

Had he not done as James requested, the false accusations against him would have been thought true.

He was forgiven. It doesn't matter what happened. It was as GOD planned so that nothing will be hidden from those to whom
HIS WORD will come

Paul died but he saw the LORD by him so even in this he was forgiven and GOD used Paul for good


I do not believe anyone should be reinstating animal sacrifice
And in fact in doing so this already attests to the awareness of guilt and sin

Yet one hesitates to come to THE LORD

 

[gadar perets]

And HE stopped it because it is wrong

Where does it say God stopped it? How do you know Satan didn't stop it so that Paul couldn't disprove the false accusations?

 

[miknik5]

Where does it say God stopped it? How do you know Satan didn't stop it so that Paul couldn't disprove the false accusations?

You believe that sacrifices should continue?

 

[gadar perets]

Paul used the vow to validate himself before his Jewish brethren that he was following the law of Moses when he really wasn't and shouldn't have been since CHRIST fulfilled all these lower shadows which were ever and always pointing us to the HIGHER HIDDEN SPIRITUAL REALITIES found in CHRIST

It wasn't for him to allow this for the Jews at all

And before the seven days which were vowed, he was arrested

The sacrifices for these four men completing their vows was never made

We are not told the sacrifices were never made. That is an assumption. Those men were obligated to fulfill their vow. It did not matter that Yeshua fulfilled all sacrificial shadows. The vow was most likely entered into under the Sinai Covenant and needed to be completed as per YHWH's commands.

 

[miknik5]

because no sacrifices should be upon the altar when HIS BLOOD is sufficient

 

[gadar perets]

You believe that sacrifices should continue?

No. This was a special circumstance, not a regular thing.

 

[gadar perets]

because no sacrifices should be upon the altar when HIS BLOOD is sufficient

I agree, except in a case like this.

 

[miknik5]

We are not told the sacrifices were never made. That is an assumption. Those men were obligated to fulfill their vow. It did not matter that Yeshua fulfilled all sacrificial shadows. The vow was most likely entered into under the Sinai Covenant and needed to be completed as per YHWH's commands.

You're right

I don't know
But I do know that no one can come up to the altar uncovered
And I know that the vestments of a high priest before GOD and the blood of animals was not what GOD had been pointing to

Further Haggai 2 is completely ignored !

 

[miknik5]

I agree, except in a case like this.

No. I do not agree

 

[Meowzltov]

My original view was that the four believers may have sacrificed in order to fulfill a vow they entered into BEFORE receiving Yeshua as Savior in which case the sacrifice was obligatory. You countered by telling me Acts 21 refers to A/one Christian making a NEW vow AFTER becoming a Christian. It says no such thing about a new vow after becoming a Christian. Nor does it refer to only one Christian. Nor were the believers called "Christians" in that passage. They are simply called "men", no doubt from the thousands of "Jews" that "believe" and keep Torah.

My MAIN point is simply THEY SACRIFICED.

Minor points are: You don't know that they didn't take Nazarite vows after becoming Christians. You are completely inserting that into the text. If they were zealous for Torah, they would have continued to take Nazarite vows.

That they are not yet called Christians is an irrelevant point. They are of the Christ following movement of which the followers came to be called Christians.

You do agree that they were Jews that believed in Yeshua do you not?