Col 2:16 is about not judging others

[Bob S]

One very important principle that is left out of all theological cemeteries, and one which most scholars either forget or deny is that a teacher must be teachable.

Thanks for the post. At least I got a good chuckle from reading it. You have posted that you are a teacher and when I have, several times, called you on your teachings you will not consider the scripture I use to prove that you are mistaken. Too bad that you take the word of a self proclaimed prophet over the Holy writ. It is really too bad when the teacher does not understand and will not listen to the new covenant and teaches that Christians have to bow down to the teachings that were only meant for Israel up and until the ratification of the new covenant at Calvary.

There are always people out there that know more then we do. To always find the one point of contention in a forum, and attack it is not any way to share truth. First find a point of agreement and others will be more apt to listen and reason together.

Oh my goodness. If I were to name some some things and you found one thing that was not scriptural I suppose you wouldn't call out that point even if it were a salvation issue? And may I remind you this forum really is not a college 101 course, it is a debate on whether or not we are subject to the Sabbath and/or the Torah.

Today is the day that Sabbath observers try to:
Isaiah 58:13
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

How did you fare?

 

[masmpg]

Bob, the reason I quit responding to you is because I have given you many verses which I know you have no explanation for and all you do is try to prove to me the cheap grace do nothing churchianity. You keep telling me and showing me texts about justification and how the law is nailed to the cross, and that God has no laws at all for us to follow even though Jesus told us to keep His commandments. I will give you one quote here and my prayers go with it to you 1Corinthians:2:14: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[Bob S]

Bob, the reason I quit responding to you is because I have given you many verses which I know you have no explanation for and all you do is try to prove to me the cheap grace do nothing churchianity. You keep telling me and showing me texts about justification and how the law is nailed to the cross, and that God has no laws at all for us to follow even though Jesus told us to keep His commandments. I will give you one quote here and my prayers go with it to you 1Corinthians:2:14: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Sorry friend, I try to respond to all the posts and each subject. If I have not responded to any of your subjects please let me know. I would ask that you respond to all of my issues.

I have heard the phrase "cheap Grace" for many years and I respond by telling those that believe such a lie that Grace was not cheap. Grace cost the giver, my Savior, a horrible death on the Cross.

Now as far as not believing that we are not under any law, if you have read any of my posts you would find that I believe Christians are under the law of love. Loving, like Jesus loves us, is the most important and beautiful law that man could ever do for our Creator and our fellow man. I do not believe anyone is under the Israelite rituals save one, marriage.. We are all under the many laws of morality. Observing the nine commandments dealing with morality given at Sinai is just the tip of the iceberg. The nine don't even say anything about love which is the greatest command.

I know that you have united yourself with those that tell the same story that you just did in your post. I know because I too quoted those cliches for almost 40 years. Yes, I was SDA for many years. I know exactly all the things Adventists say and believe about all other faiths. Having read all the dirt your prophet has written about those not of your faith makes me ill. The fact is that I do not care what day Adventists worship on, but I do care that they make it a test of salvation and I do care that they have duped so many into believing some of the other doctrines.

Some of my best friends are SDA. They know where I stand and apparently do not have a problem with my Bible beliefs. Last year SDA friends traveled Europe with my wife and me. I have, over the years, seen them accept "cheap Grace" as you call it. I have seen them lay down the legalism that is so profound in Adventism. Also it is true that some of my former friends have shunned us for leaving the belief system. That is their problem. I welcome them with open arms if and when they catch the Spirit.

I do not belong to any group although we support the outreach of little church we attend having been wonderfully blessed since leaving Adventism. The Holy Spirit continues to work on my heart and gives me the power to spread the good news of the plan of salvation through our Savior Jesus Christ.

May God Bless you my brother in Christ.

 

[masmpg]

Sorry friend, I try to respond to all the posts and each subject. If I have not responded to any of your subjects please let me know. I would ask that you respond to all of my issues.

I have heard the phrase "cheap Grace" for many years and I respond by telling those that believe such a lie that Grace was not cheap. Grace cost the giver, my Savior, a horrible death on the Cross.

The fact is that I do not care what day Adventists worship on, but I do care that they make it a test of salvation and I do care that they have duped so many into believing some of the other doctrines.

All I can say here Bob is that if you would get rid of your preconceived opinions taught to you by the evangelicals about the law you would find that the SDA denomination would agree with you on more issues than you think.

Please, since you know so much about the SDA doctrine and the "dirty" Ellen White show me from any of her writings where we make the sabbath a salvation issue. The only time we make the sabbath a "salvation" issue is when it becomes a man made law and we are forced to observe it (SUNday). That law is coming soon, and I hope that when it comes you will forget the preconceived nonsense about only obeying nine of the ten, and let go of the stubbornness and remember THE sabbath, God's sabbath day to keep it holy.

I have tried with you Bob but you did not even read my posts, but almost immediately threw at me the law, the law. The SDA church is not the one that makes an issue about the law. It is those who attack us with the myriads of notions about the law being "nailed to the cross", "done away with", "fulfilled" and all sorts of other fairy tales about the law.

I ask you this Bob, if the law was "fulfilled" in the way you say it was, is it fulfilled in you? Can you sin and have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you? Romans 8:4

 

[Bob S]

All I can say here Bob is that if you would get rid of your preconceived opinions taught to you by the evangelicals about the law you would find that the SDA denomination would agree with you on more issues than you think.

To tell you the truth I do not really know what evangelicals believe. I have never studied under them or read their literature. I study scripture and pit it against what I was taught as an Adventist. Please do not get emotional or angry friend.

Please, since you know so much about the SDA doctrine and the "dirty" Ellen White show me from any of her writings where we make the sabbath a salvation issue.

Thanks for the opportunity. I too was told the same thing you have written, but you prophet says differently. I know the SDA church likes to keep hidden much of what Ellen White wrote. the problem is that we all have much of her writings available on the Web. I could fill your mind with things she wrote that are not true. Yes, I have a lot of her false writings organized in my computer documents, so when I write something you can bet it is the truth.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}


But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}


We should regularly reserve something for God's cause, that He may not be robbed of the portion which He claims. When we rob God we rob ourselves also. We give up the heavenly treasure for the sake of having more of this earth. This is a loss that we cannot afford to sustain. (5T 271.3)

The only time we make the sabbath a "salvation" issue is when it becomes a man made law and we are forced to observe it (SUNday). That law is coming soon, and I hope that when it comes you will forget the preconceived nonsense about only obeying nine of the ten, and let go of the stubbornness and remember THE sabbath, God's sabbath day to keep it holy.

I am sorry you are wrong. I know it must be a real disappointment to find out that is not really what the church teaches. They have hidden much from the laity.

I have tried with you Bob but you did not even read my posts,

That is a complete misnomer. I do read your posts and have critiqued them quit extensively.

but almost immediately threw at me the law, the law.

Sorry, but that is what the church teaches. Even Ellen White didn't know anything about Grace through faith before 1888. I believe it was A.T. Jones that brought the message of grace to the Adventist believers. Even then she never fully understood it and never changed any of her previous writings. Those very same writings are still sold to the Adventist community today. Please understand that she believed she was more than a prophet. Her writings are cannon to SDAs that truly believe in her

The SDA church is not the one that makes an issue about the law. It is those who attack us with the myriads of notions about the law being "nailed to the cross", "done away with", "fulfilled" and all sorts of other fairy tales about the law.

While it is very true that SDAs today do not make an issue about the law, it is still in the writings of the revered prophet.. SDAs take a vow to uphold all of the doctrines which include believing in her.

I ask you this Bob, if the law was "fulfilled" in the way you say it was, is it fulfilled in you? Can you sin and have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you? Romans 8:4

Oh yes indeed. I live by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a precious gift from Jesus. The law cannot touch me, it cannot condemn me. Jesus is my advocate and His blood covers all of His peoples sins. You certainly do not have to answer this, have you stopped sinning? I have had 81 years to work on my bad habits and I still come short of the glory of God. Your prophet tells you that you have to overcome sin in order to be saved. If I could talk to the prophet I would tell her that Jesus is going to be very lonesome if that is the case. Overcoming sin is certainly what we strive to do and the more things we have to contend with makes it even more difficult. In my last post I wrote about the how you are supposed to observe the Sabbath and I asked you how you fared. You didn't respond, but since I was once a trier I can only guess that you too failed to keep your mind strictly on Holy things and from doing your own pleasure. I am not putting you down, I understand.

The law that was given to Israel was theirs and only theirs. We were born under the new covenant which has almost no rituals. Again, I suggest that SDAs study the covenants. We are not under two covenants. Israel had their chance. They failed and their covenant was broken because it was a conditional covenant. There is no IF in our covenant and Grace is our assurance. I hope this helps.

 

[BABerean2]

Please, since you know so much about the SDA doctrine and the "dirty" Ellen White show me from any of her writings where we make the sabbath a salvation issue.

 

[Spiritlight]

Having grown up in a conservative Christian church, I have seen how messed up it can be when ones local customs in their situation, becomes the measure by which you judge the worth of a fellow believer with regard to their standing as a christian. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This automatically makes us unworthy to attempt to elevate our position by judging other sinners.

 

[masmpg]

repost

 

[masmpg]

To tell you the truth I do not really know what evangelicals believe. I have never studied under them or read their literature. I study scripture and pit it against what I was taught as an Adventist. Please do not get emotional or angry friend.[QUOTE/]

I feel a bit of contention and ask your forgiveness if I cause it.

So why are you so against Adventism? You do all in your power to "pit your studies against adventist" To me that just does not seem vary loving.

Thanks for the opportunity. I too was told the same thing you have written, but you prophet says differently. I know the SDA church likes to keep hidden much of what Ellen White wrote. the problem is that we all have much of her writings available on the Web. I could fill your mind with things she wrote that are not true. Yes, I have a lot of her false writings organized in my computer documents, so when I write something you can bet it is the truth.

The quotes you sent have nothing to say about losing salvation if we do not keep the sabbath. She, like you and I only teach that if we are convicted of it we should follow the conviction, in all doctrines and principles. Do you think that we can still walk with the Lord while we deny convictions from the Comforter? The Comforter is all we have on our walk of sanctification. When we are converted we do not know everything. In fact we do not even know that some things we do are sins, and that is what the Comforter does to us. He was sent to reprove or convict the world of sin. . .

I am sorry you are wrong. I know it must be a real disappointment to find out that is not really what the church teaches. They have hidden much from the laity.

The SDA denomination cannot hide anything from the laity. It is up to each of us to study to show ourselves approved unto God. We are not to study the church. Ellen White was even against organization as a church. She spoke against what would happen with a president. She calls it kingly powers that the leaders will usurp. Ellen White has all but been banned from the SDA denomination, especially in the theological cemeteries. I take her writings over any church manuals, or questions on doctrine that are just apostate literature.

Sorry, but that is what the church teaches. Even Ellen White didn't know anything about Grace through faith before 1888. I believe it was A.T. Jones that brought the message of grace to the Adventist believers. Even then she never fully understood it and never changed any of her previous writings. Those very same writings are still sold to the Adventist community today. Please understand that she believed she was more than a prophet. Her writings are cannon to SDAs that truly believe in her

Please show me where she actually disagrees with salvation by grace, or writes anything contrary to that. Her writings might be cannon for traditional adventists, but to take a few of her writings, of the 150,000, pages out of context and try as hard as you can to convince people against her is out of line.

While it is very true that SDAs today do not make an issue about the law, it is still in the writings of the revered prophet.. SDAs take a vow to uphold all of the doctrines which include believing in her.

I agree. We USE TO accept her writings as the gift of prophecy as baptismal vows. That has since been removed, but until someone can actually show me from her writings where she disagrees with the bible I will uphold her writings. She does mention the law quite a bit only because in her day there were so many extremes being agitated. The 20th century was one of the most busy times in Christian history. Not only were many denominations formed but modern spiritualism was invented. When God moves, satan moves in conjunction with God's movements to deceive as many as possible with the power he is allowed.

[QOUTE]You certainly do not have to answer this, have you stopped sinning? I have had 81 years to work on my bad habits and I still come short of the glory of God.

Please read what happened to Joshua before he was able to receive Christs righteousness. Jesus righteousness will not cover one unconfessed sin. If we sin we must confess. 1 John 1:9 & 2:1. Here is what happened to Joshua in Zechariah:3:3&4: "Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment." You can interpret this however you want to but what it is telling me that our filthy garments (sin) must be removed before we received Christ's righteousness (foregiveness).

Your prophet tells you that you have to overcome sin in order to be saved.

The "prophet" is only echoing what the bible states.

If I could talk to the prophet I would tell her that Jesus is going to be very lonesome if that is the case.

No need to talk to anybody Jesus Himself said that the majority will be lost, and when He said that He was talking to His people (church) at the time.

Overcoming sin is certainly what we strive to do and the more things we have to contend with makes it even more difficult.

So you think that all the overcomer verses in revelation are not necessarily for us to complete? Are these just suggestions? Revelation 2:7&11&17&26 & 3:5&12&21 & 21:7. According to these verses which are past tense, if we do not overcome all sin in our lives we will not be able to eat from the tree of life, we will not inherit all things, etc.

In my last post I wrote about the how you are supposed to observe the Sabbath and I asked you how you fared. You didn't respond, but since I was once a trier I can only guess that you too failed to keep your mind strictly on Holy things and from doing your own pleasure. I am not putting you down, I understand.

I keep the sabbath as I am convicted to. I will not try to learn all the rituals and rules the pharisees added to the forth commandment, which Jesus came to break up. It's like the woman caught in adultery In the old testament they were suppose to stone her, Jesus said you who are without sin cast the first stone. I am not trying to lessen the law that Moses wrote in a book, but deciphering them and balancing the power of grace, which gives me victory when the Comforter convicts me of sin, with which laws to keep helps me to rely on the Comforter.

There is no IF in our covenant and Grace is our assurance. I hope this helps.

I agree, but what is grace for? Grace gives us power to overcome all sin in our lives Romans 1:5, among many other things grace was given for. Like I stated earlier just because the law is in our hearts does not mean we do not have to obey it, nor does it mean that law has gone anywhere. The law does one thing. It points out sin. It never saved anybody. ALL of God's creation will be saved by grace. From Adam to the last person to die in Christ will be saved by grace. The only difference from the old to the new is the sacrificial rituals and the ceremonial sabbath days. Those are the only thing done away with at the cross.

 

[Bob S]

Please read what happened to Joshua before he was able to receive Christs righteousness. Jesus righteousness will not cover one unconfessed sin. If we sin we must confess. 1 John 1:9 & 2:1. Here is what happened to Joshua in Zechariah:3:3&4: "Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment." You can interpret this however you want to but what it is telling me that our filthy garments (sin) must be removed before we received Christ's righteousness (foregiveness).

Wow! you have been in the red books too long. I agree we should confess our sins to Jesus. The problem is that we sin and don't even realize we are doing so. We receive Christ's righteousness the minute we ask Him into our hearts. I am so sorry you have been misled to believe your works of perfection have to be met before you can be saved. I know you have been taught that you must stand alone perfect in the last days without the mediator. That too is bunk Nowhere in scripture does it teach that. Our goal is to sin no more. Our human nature is a war with our goal. Don't you believe Jesus is aware of that fact? Isn't His offer of Grace sufficient. Apparently it is not for you. Jesus knows my heart and if I fail to tell Him what He already knows I know my loving Savior will not keep me from eternal life. Your prophet has you scared to death. That is no way to live your life.

The "prophet" is only echoing what the bible states.

So, you too believe you have to overcome sin before you can be saved. How is that working in your life?

No need to talk to anybody Jesus Himself said that the majority will be lost, and when He said that He was talking to His people (church) at the time.

Could it be you are getting Ellen and Jesus mixed up? I know ellen wrote such things, but I can't recall Jesus saying such a thing.
"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner." {ChS 41.1}

If the odds are/were that great you will be lost I think I would enjoy doing some real sinning, drink some wine, do some Sabbath shopping with the tithe you would have paid and get really happy. Do to all the lying Ellen did concerning plagiarism, made up stories plus a myriad of other issues, she would not have been the running for the "not one".

So you think that all the overcomer verses in revelation are not necessarily for us to complete? Are these just suggestions? Revelation 2:7&11&17&26 & 3:5&12&21 & 21:7. According to these verses which are past tense, if we do not overcome all sin in our lives we will not be able to eat from the tree of life, we will not inherit all things, etc.

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Through the blood of the Lamb I am victorious. Amen!

I keep the sabbath as I am convicted to. I will not try to learn all the rituals and rules the pharisees added to the forth commandment,

You don't need to learn all the added stuff brother. You will and have sinned so much it would be impossible for you to enter the Kingdom if Sabbath was really a requirement to gain Heaven. Are you convicted to turn your feet from doing your own pleasure on the defunct Israelite Holy day? Do you ever admire someone's new car or has some lady ever caused you to turn your head. Ever discuss things like politics or vacations on the "holy" day? How about spending a large amount of time driving on the Sabbath And then there are all the billboards to read along the way. Yep, me too. I can truthfully admit I never ever was victorious in "keeping" the Israelite Sabbath

which Jesus came to break up. It's like the woman caught in adultery In the old testament they were suppose to stone her, Jesus said you who are without sin cast the first stone. I am not trying to lessen the law that Moses wrote in a book, but deciphering them and balancing the power of grace, which gives me victory when the Comforter convicts me of sin, with which laws to keep helps me to rely on the Comforter.

To me you have just contradicted yourself. First you say not even one unconfessed sin and having to reach perfection. Now you say Balance and relying on the Holy Spirit. Well let me tell you something I have learned, the holy spirit allows us much rope. In other words we are free moral agents(as SDAs like to call it) and the Holy Spirit does not stop us from sinning.

I agree, but what is grace for? Grace gives us power to overcome all sin in our lives Romans 1:5,

5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. Do you see anything in that verse that states that Grace gives us the power to overcome sin? I sure don't. Please give me some real scripture to prove your statement. Grace is unmerited favor. Pardon for something we really do not deserve.

Like I stated earlier just because the law is in our hearts does not mean we do not have to obey it, nor does it mean that law has gone anywhere.

You may have stated it the problem is that the Bible and I do not agree with what you think is in our hearts. The law of love is in our hearts not some ritual old covenant Sabbath.

I studied with Adventists for two years before I was convinced to join . It was not in my heart to do such a thing . It was because I didn't understand the covenants. I was taught the 10 commandments beforehand and the fourth one told the Israelites that they were to keep the day Holy. When after almost 40 years I reread 2Cor 3:7-11
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
I found out that the 10 were temporary laws. Now I could care less how those old cold stones were written, they were temporary laws as the Israelites guide and now we have the gift from Jesus in our hearts, the Holy Spirit, He guides us into righteousness.

The law does one thing. It points out sin. It never saved anybody.

Amen brother. Paul writes that it is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

ALL of God's creation will be saved by grace. From Adam to the last person to die in Christ will be saved by grace. The only difference from the old to the new is the sacrificial rituals and the ceremonial sabbath days. Those are the only thing done away with at the cross.

Are not all Sabbath days ceremonial? The 10 commandments were nine commands that dealt with morality and one that dealt with ceremonies or a ritual. All of them were Israel's Holy days to the Lord.

If I am not mistaken SDAs do not believe Jesus has fulfilled all He came to do so therefore not even one jot nor one tittle (Matt 5:16-18) should have passed from Torah according to SDA belief, yet SDAs tell us the ceremonies except for the weekly Sabbath, clean meat laws and your modified false tithing system have been fulfilled. It is odd that Scripture tells us that even the 10 commandments were temporary and have been replaced by the Holy Spirit, yet you would rather believe a woman that, in her early life, almost died because of a head injury and has, without a doubt, been exposed as being a false prophet.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Wow! you have been in the red books too long. I agree we should confess our sins to Jesus. The problem is that we sin and don't even realize we are doing so. We receive Christ's righteousness the minute we ask Him into our hearts. I am so sorry you have been misled to believe your works of perfection have to be met before you can be saved. I know you have been taught that you must stand alone perfect in the last days without the mediator. That too is bunk Nowhere in scripture does it teach that. Our goal is to sin no more. Our human nature is a war with our goal. Don't you believe Jesus is aware of that fact? Isn't His offer of Grace sufficient. Apparently it is not for you. Jesus knows my heart and if I fail to tell Him what He already knows I know my loving Savior will not keep me from eternal life. Your prophet has you scared to death. That is no way to live your life.



So, you too believe you have to overcome sin before you can be saved. How is that working in your life?



Could it be you are getting Ellen and Jesus mixed up? I know ellen wrote such things, but I can't recall Jesus saying such a thing.
"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner." {ChS 41.1}

If the odds are/were that great you will be lost I think I would enjoy doing some real sinning, drink some wine, do some Sabbath shopping with the tithe you would have paid and get really happy. Do to all the lying Ellen did concerning plagiarism, made up stories plus a myriad of other issues, she would not have been the running for the "not one".


7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Through the blood of the Lamb I am victorious. Amen!




You don't need to learn all the added stuff brother. You will and have sinned so much it would be impossible for you to enter the Kingdom if Sabbath was really a requirement to gain Heaven. Are you convicted to turn your feet from doing your own pleasure on the defunct Israelite Holy day? Do you ever admire someone's new car or has some lady ever caused you to turn your head. Ever discuss things like politics or vacations on the "holy" day? How about spending a large amount of time driving on the Sabbath And then there are all the billboards to read along the way. Yep, me too. I can truthfully admit I never ever was victorious in "keeping" the Israelite Sabbath



To me you have just contradicted yourself. First you say not even one unconfessed sin and having to reach perfection. Now you say Balance and relying on the Holy Spirit. Well let me tell you something I have learned, the holy spirit allows us much rope. In other words we are free moral agents(as SDAs like to call it) and the Holy Spirit does not stop us from sinning.



5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. Do you see anything in that verse that states that Grace gives us the power to overcome sin? I sure don't. Please give me some real scripture to prove your statement. Grace is unmerited favor. Pardon for something we really do not deserve.



You may have stated it the problem is that the Bible and I do not agree with what you think is in our hearts. The law of love is in our hearts not some ritual old covenant Sabbath.

I studied with Adventists for two years before I was convinced to join . It was not in my heart to do such a thing . It was because I didn't understand the covenants. I was taught the 10 commandments beforehand and the fourth one told the Israelites that they were to keep the day Holy. When after almost 40 years I reread 2Cor 3:7-11
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
I found out that the 10 were temporary laws. Now I could care less how those old cold stones were written, they were temporary laws as the Israelites guide and now we have the gift from Jesus in our hearts, the Holy Spirit, He guides us into righteousness.


Amen brother. Paul writes that it is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.


Are not all Sabbath days ceremonial? The 10 commandments were nine commands that dealt with morality and one that dealt with ceremonies or a ritual. All of them were Israel's Holy days to the Lord.

If I am not mistaken SDAs do not believe Jesus has fulfilled all He came to do so therefore not even one jot nor one tittle (Matt 5:16-18) should have passed from Torah according to SDA belief, yet SDAs tell us the ceremonies except for the weekly Sabbath, clean meat laws and your modified false tithing system have been fulfilled. It is odd that Scripture tells us that even the 10 commandments were temporary and have been replaced by the Holy Spirit, yet you would rather believe a woman that, in her early life, almost died because of a head injury and has, without a doubt, been exposed as being a false prophet.

And what has all your rant got to do with Colossians 2? Rant like this erroneous and pretentious claim on <Scripture>,
<<Scripture tells us that even the 10 commandments were temporary and have been replaced by the Holy Spirit>>?
If you said they were nailed to the cross in Christ, I would have believed you. But believe, replaced by your holy spirit? Never!

 

[BABerean2]

If you said they were nailed to the cross in Christ, I would have believed you. But believe, replaced by your holy spirit? Never!

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　
2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　
2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　

.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

In Col 2:16 we have this -

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


An example of NOT condemning eating OR drinking or remembering God's Ten-Commandment creation-Sabbath day to keep it holy. Rather Col 2 condemns the "commandments of men" - (as is so carefully avoided in the quotes we often see from Col 2)


Col 2 is 0pposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. - so it is opposed to 'making stuff up' - via "man-made tradition"

Dear Bob Ryan, God is showing you some truth here, and I although maybe the only one in the world, say, Thank you, Bob Ryan, that you have the courage in our Lord Jesus Christ to speak God's Word as far as truthfully you have been able to. God sees and God knows, let the ravers rave. But let you and I in the fear of the Lord Jesus Christ, "rage against the dying of the light"! [Dylan Thomas. He died at 39. God has granted us about double the life-time, just think of it! Can we go on to only oppose one another until we die?]

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I forgot who wrote this ...

Would the Spirit become your Teacher, how soon would the light of the saving knowledge of God in the face of Christ shine into your hearts! If God once become the Teacher, if once the anointing you would receive of the Father would teach you all things (1Jn2:27), your own hearts would serve you for a commentary upon a great part of the Bible; it would make you of a quick understanding in the fear of the Lord. One drop of your knowledge would be more worth than all arts and sciences to you. Is God so far from you, and his illuminating Spirit at such a distance, that there is no hope for you to find Him? Is there never a private corner about your houses or barns, or in the fields where you can turn aside, if it be but a quarter of an hour at a time, to pour out your souls to God, and beg the Spirit of Him? Miserable wretch! Is thy whole life such a cumber and clutter of cares and puzzles about the world, that thou hast no leizure to mind God, soul, or eternity? O doleful state! The Lord in much mercy and pity awaken thee! Wilt thou not once strive and struggle to save thy soul? What, perish, as it were, by consent? How great then is that blindness!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　
2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　
2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　

.

Like the ministry of death written and engraved on stones, was glorious, sir, "by the Glory of GOD"--the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that shone on the face of Moses God's elect and holy prophet, sir, so that the children of Israel could not look momentarily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, so, sir, the ministry of Paul and the apostles of Jesus Christ, "made...THEM...sufficient as ministers of the New Covenant", sir, "not of the letter but of the Spirit", sir!

You, sir, are not Christ's minister or, an apostle of the New Covenant! The vulgar audacity of it!

 

[BABerean2]

You, sir, are not Christ's minister or, an apostle of the New Covenant! The vulgar audacity of it!

2Co 3:5　 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,　
2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　


1Pe 2:9　 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;　
1Pe 2:10　 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.　


Anyone who points a finger at others and condemns these others because they find themselves in conflict with God's word, would be better off looking at the three fingers pointing back at themselves...

Luk_6:42　 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.


.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

2Co 3:5　 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,　
2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　


1Pe 2:9　 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;　
1Pe 2:10　 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.　


Anyone who points a finger at others and condemns these others because they find themselves in conflict with God's word, would be better off looking at the three fingers pointing back at themselves...

Luk_6:42　 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

Exactly! Every word, exactly!

The "you" in 1Peter 2:9 is not the "we" or the "us" in 2Corinthians 3:6 which you, sir, claim not for the "generation", but, FOR YOURSELF.

...pointing a finger ... DUH! Speak for yourself!

 

[Bob S]

Settle down there Gerhard before you pop a cork. Your preconceived ideas have blinded you to the real truth and have caused you to go into ranting mode.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Settle down there Gerhard before you pop a cork. Your preconceived ideas have blinded you to the real truth and have caused you to go into ranting mode.

<<Preconceived ideas>> that Paul spoke of the Apostleship and that Peter spoke of the general assemblies of saints, the Church? And that the two things are two things VERY different from one another?
Who is <<blinded to real truth>>? He who ASSUMES Apostolic authority, the authority of the Holy Spirit, or he who divides the Word of God with fear?

The <<Real Truth>> is daily perverted by <the spirit> of darkness, that like the messenger of death covers the earth.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

it is a debate on whether or not we are subject to the Sabbath and/or the Torah

It is not. This thread is about the translation into the real meaning of Colossians 2.